Grand Central give up on Pontefract

[Eric]

Perhaps not, but those there would be little value running to the stations north of York or Doncaster. However it does give a valuable link to London to the stations served on the rest of the route. The business case for GC will rest of the ORCATS revenue. No ORCATS no GC.



50 minutes Wakefield to Bradford is a joke. If that could be cut down by even half that time then I bet GC would have a lot more passengers. Far too easy to get the fast train from Forster Square and a short hop onto the KGX train.

I must add and even then the GC service puts you down at the abysmal and dilapidated Kirkgate station which isn't the nearest station to the town centre.

50+ minutes from Bradford to Wakefield really does need to be looked at asap, because the bus only takes 40 minutes (albeit the Sheffield limited stop).

Someone has mentioned the excessive dwell time at Brighouse and on the approach to Halifax which I believe is beyond GC's control as these are the allocated paths they have been granted.

Off memory the last time I did this journey, we spent seven minutes sat at Brighouse and then a further five minutes at the junction waiting to get onto the Halifax to Bradford line as the Blackpool to York service had priority over us (from what the member of staff I spoke to told me).

There is room for improvement that I think we all acknowledge.

If the journey times could just somehow be reduced then IMO the passenger numbers using the GC West Yorkshire extension would grow in tow.

 

[williamn]

Their awful reliability can't have helped either, everytime I walk through KX it seems I see a GC service cancelled

 

[tbtc]

50+ minutes from Bradford to Wakefield really does need to be looked at asap, because the bus only takes 40 minutes (albeit the Sheffield limited stop).

The X33? Not for a few years now... (there are Wakefield - Morley - Bradford buses IIRC)
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Does the MML service to Sheffield not reverse at Nottm Midland? It just seems perverse that station like Mirfield and Brighouse have a direct London service when a station the size of Huddersfield with its immediate and surrounding population doesn't.

As MCR247 has said, no, the only London - Nottingham - Sheffield trains are peak extensions (usually to get the stock to/from Neville Hill in Leeds).

Huddersfield is a decent sized town (146,234 people, so *much* bigger than
Wrexham 42,576 and Shrewsbury 70,689 put together), but Mirfield and Brighouse are part of that "surrounding population" as well as being handy for Dewsbury/ Cleckheaton etc. I appreciate its not as good as a direct train, but the connections at Leeds would always be faster than GC anyway. Its a bit like Middlesbrough, which hasn't had a direct London service for a long time, but in recent years has had a Grand Central service from the "outskirts" (Eaglescliffe), as well as long-running connections to frequent ECML London services at Darlington.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Their awful reliability can't have helped either, everytime I walk through KX it seems I see a GC service cancelled

The "middle" service of the three northbound West Yorks route is the one that is cancelled, especially on a Sunday. When I asked, I was told it was "due to shortage of rolling stock because of refurbishment, problem will be over soon".

 

[Eric]

The X33? Not for a few years now... (there are Wakefield - Morley - Bradford buses IIRC).

I've not used the bus to Wakefield in about five years (that would explain my not being aware that the X33 had stopped running) but there are still the green arriva buses that run from the Interchange to Wakefield and Dewsbury.

 

[142094]

I must add and even then the GC service puts you down at the abysmal and dilapidated Kirkgate station which isn't the nearest station to the town centre.

Only way to serve Wakefield unless you have a reversal at Westgate. Don't think East Coast would be too pleased to see some of their market switch to GC if they were allowed to stop at Westgate.

Someone has mentioned the excessive dwell time at Brighouse and on the approach to Halifax which I believe is beyond GC's control as these are the allocated paths they have been granted.

The timings for this section should be looked at as it is far too slow. I also guess it may have something to do with platform availability at Interchange, but I bet there would be better numbers if the journey time was cut.

 

[Eric]

Only way to serve Wakefield unless you have a reversal at Westgate. Don't think East Coast would be too pleased to see some of their market switch to GC if they were allowed to stop at Westgate.



The timings for this section should be looked at as it is far too slow. I also guess it may have something to do with platform availability at Interchange, but I bet there would be better numbers if the journey time was cut.

I don't think it's platform availability at Bradford Interchange that causes the excessive dwell time as GC have been allocated the whole of platform two specifically for their services to the capital.

That leaves Northern with just platforms one, three and four, which going on the current traffic going in and out of the station is adequate.

Could it be that the timetable hasn't taken into account the superior acceleration/braking of the class 180?

Because every time I've used GC's West Yorkshire route it's always the same four minutes at Wakefield, seven minutes at Brighouse, five minutes waiting to get into Halifax and then a further delay as you get stuck behind a 142/144/155/158 and so you have to ride the double yellows all the way to Bradford.

 

[wbbminerals]

With GC there is a lot of waiting unfortunatley. And Wakefield Westgate is impossible with the current route without two reversals

the abysmal and dilapidated Kirkgate station which isn't the nearest station to the town centre

Well, to be honest there's not much in it between the distance, but the local boozer to Kirkgate isn't good (it's delapadated).

 

[tbtc]

Well, to be honest there's not much in it between the distance, but the local boozer to Kirkgate isn't good (it's delapadated).

I like the pub by Westgate, but it can depend on Prison Visiting Hours whether it's safe to drink in though

 

[wbbminerals]

The Elephant and Castle? With the Victorian frontage?

 

[142094]

Or Henry Boons? In there last night, cheap pint as well.

If it isn't the platforms at Bradford, then the timings between stations should be changed. Even though it is a direct service there are people who don't mind changing at Leeds for a much faster service.

 

[43167]

I did the 0651 Interchange-Kings X from Brighouse and after all the West Yorkshire stops, it wasnt full, but there was plenty on board. Of those only 6 or 7 got on at Pontefract, so no wonder GC want to pull out of there.

Coming back, I was on the 1420 my coach was empty, but the other 3 standard coaches had enough into justify the service.

 

[tbtc]

Or Henry Boons? In there last night, cheap pint as well

That's the one - you need a minimum amount of tatoos to drink there but it's a decent pint

 

[Eric]

The Elephant and Castle? With the Victorian frontage?

I always end up in the Black Swan up the road.

 

[142094]

That's the one - you need a minimum amount of tatoos to drink there but it's a decent pint

Was the starting point for the Wakefield meal last night, didn't seem too bad! Big police convoy going to the prison added a nice touch.

 

[TheWalrus]

Well, there's no market for WSMR in this country either.........

No market? Really? Well was I the only one to ever use it? I thought they were quite well used when I were on it. Maybe there were too many carriages, or prices were too cheap? I dont know.

 

[swt_passenger]

Update on this, the ORR website now includes some more correspondence about the two GC applications, that's the Bradford services ceasing Pontefract calls, and extra Doncaster calls in all the Sunderland services.

Looks like NR are basically saying 'get lost', and GC in return are not at all happy with NR...

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1258

The two GC applications are the third and fourth items down, see NR and GC's respective views under 'responses'

 

[YorkshireRider]

Have to say i thought conjestion would always be a problem between Hare Park and the junction for Sheffield with this idea, im afraid i think GC have dug themselves into a bit of a hole with the Bradford route and may have to think about scraping it alltogether.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Quite a shame actually. In my opinion, i think its harsh giving open access just one slot per hour in and out of Kings Cross. Perhaps its time GC terminated Bradford, and focussed on increasing Sunderland.

 

[tbtc]

i think its harsh giving open access just one slot per hour in and out of Kings Cross

Personally I think its a really good idea, and better use of paths to have one OA path an hour, much more efficient use of paths over Welwyn etc.

However, I can appreciate GC's argument that *if* there is to be an hourly OA service, and Hull Trains can stop at Doncaster in that slot then GC (Sunderland) should surely be able to serve Doncaster in the hours when they run on that slot.

Not like me to speak in favour of Open Access, I know, but if there is to be an hourly OA path then surely GC can serve Donny in that slot?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Not like me to speak in favour of Open Access, I know, but if there is to be an hourly OA path then surely GC can serve Donny in that slot?

Shock horror there tbtc!

And I agree, it would be the exact same times, so there shouldn't really be a fuss kicked up, unless its some infrequent service blocking the paths?

 

[tbtc]

Shock horror there tbtc!

And I agree, it would be the exact same times, so there shouldn't really be a fuss kicked up, unless its some infrequent service blocking the paths?

I think I need to lie down now, been feeling dizzy

SRSLY though, why is the platform at Doncaster free on the hours HT will serve it but busy in the hours when GC will pass by?

 

[wbbminerals]

I agree about what has been said about Hare Park, GC could bewaiting there for half an hour like some of the Freightliners do (although the journey probably wouldn't be much slower).

 

[spoony]

As someone who lives in Sunderland I must say I like the idea of a route into Doncaster on GC. Not sure without looking but I think this would make it a lot easier (and hopefully cheaper) to access the midlands from my part if the NE.

 

[spionkop64]

I agree about what has been said about Hare Park, GC could bewaiting there for half an hour like some of the Freightliners do (although the journey probably wouldn't be much slower).

Interesting that seemingly any amount of freight trains and light engines are allowed to travel to Doncaster via Hare Park when they could as easily use the Askern branch, yet three GC's a day are denied. Could it be a case of protecting East Coast with the re-privatisation in mind?

I note East Coast are advertising London from £10 in the Bradford Telegraph & Argus. GC have responded with £39 return until mid-May. When the £25 deal was on GC did very well with good loadings on their Bradford's. They appear to be doing well from Halifax and Brighouse, but less so from Bradford where it is still often cheaper and quicker to go via Leeds on East Coast.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Possibly, but wouldn't Huddersfield punters just drive to Brighouse with its decent car park as they do now?

That's always full when I try to use it, but then again, so is Mirfield.