Grand Central Discussion

[222007]

Im on holiday in northallerton at the min (well just outside with family) so i'll be giving Grand Centrals service in first class a try on tuesday so will be interesting. I've dont Kings Cross to york a try in standard and now will give them a go up to Sunderland. Couple of questions though what are the loadings like Northallerton to Sunderland on the 11:10 departure? and does this train form the 12:30 back?

 

[Jordy]

There should be plenty of room for you on that service, and it does indeed form the 12:30 back from Sunderland.

 

[yorkie]

Im on holiday in northallerton at the min (well just outside with family) so i'll be giving Grand Centrals service in first class a try on tuesday so will be interesting. I've dont Kings Cross to york a try in standard and now will give them a go up to Sunderland. Couple of questions though what are the loadings like Northallerton to Sunderland on the 11:10 departure? and does this train form the 12:30 back?

You may have a coach to yourself going North!

If it's an Adelante, bring plenty of cool water with you, as their aircon has a tendency to fail on Adelantes. In fact, if it was an Adelante, I personally would not bother with it!

GC don't seem to believe in yield management.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mmm...Surely it would be a bit odd that a government (now Tory) run train service is complaining about a Tory inspired private operator (GC) activities?

This has been ongoing for a long time, since GC started in December 2007. There were reports of NXEC doing counts of passenger loadings through windows at York!

It would be daft (and possibly illegal?) for the Government to instruct a franchised operator supported by taxpayers, to cease a complaint about a rival operator getting revenue that they feel 'should' go to the taxpayer-funded franchise simply because the rival operator is a private company and the Government likes private companies.

The whole point of privatisation was to admit serious players (viz GC) and they have proved themselves worthy...it seems to me, so how can a govt. run op. object? doh!

Are you saying privatisation of BR into franchised operators was done to allow open access TOCs to operate?

Not only is that not the case, it makes no sense :?

It is often a franchise commitment that any franchise holder must object to any open access TOC operating on their patch. The question is not 'How can they object?' but 'How can they not object?' No objection = lose franchise. GNER/NXEC had to object to GC's existence, but they lost the case and GC won. However from what I heard, GC have lost the ORCATS revenue allocation case.

 

[John @ home]

I've heard that East Coast were successful in their complaint that GC were getting too much money allocated through ORCATS...does anyone have any detail on this?

It is reported by Modern Railways journalist Tony Miles in this thread on uk.railway

AIUI East Coast are trying to prove that Grand Central are being allocated more of the London to York revenue from flexible tickets than their share of the number of passengers using such tickets really justifies. I don't know who makes the final decision - does a dispute like this end up with the ORR?

I think I recall reading that it does, yes.

AIUI East Coast has been successful in its challenge - in fact the challenge was started by NX and both East Coast and NX expect to receive additional payments backdated to during the NXEC franchise. I don't know the size of the payments but I assume the sums were worth the effort involved.
I think much of this was done by NX (and then EC) actually counting passengers boarding & leaving trains at York (and some covert travelling on GC trains and doing some counting!)

 

[96tommy]

You may have a coach to yourself going North!

If it's an Adelante, bring plenty of cool water with you, as their aircon has a tendency to fail on Adelantes. In fact, if it was an Adelante, I personally would not bother with it!.

I normally don't like going on the Grand Central 180's but when I went on 180105 the other day it was great, the ride seemed very smooth and the air con was definately working in the first class coach

 

[wensley]

If you are going on Tuesday you are almost certain to get 180105.

For all the stick they get the 180s really aren't too bad. Alright, they aren't a patch on the HSTs but from a passenger's point of view they are relavtively smooth, quiet, and when running properly keep to the timetable with ease. Air con is a problem but all the sets (barring '101) are OK at the moment.

With regards to the 1110 ex-Northallerton you will have no problem grabbing a seat but as you are coming into Sunderland (you can stay on the set) check the reservations put in by the crew, this is normally a busy train. You will get a seat by doing this as there are normally quite a few spare but this will give you the 'edge' at getting one for sure

May I also ask, why the Northallerton area for a holiday?
I live there and do not see the attraction!!!!

 

[caliwag]

Yorkie I am indeed saying just that, or why would Daft. allow any approach at all from Hull trains, GC and W+S? The reason there is not more is because of the paperwork, Daft. intransigence and sleepless nights.
I do not believe privatisation was just a union-breaking exercise. It was an exercise in political dogma specifically designed to allow new players, fresh blood and, of course, the scope for entrepreneurism in an old, set-in-it's-ways industry.
Now I never subscribed to any of that, I loved working, albeit for only a few years, for BR, but that was the reality...despite the organisational upheavels everyone went through at the time. A vast and skilled body of Knowledge disappeared down the plughole at a stroke...but we know all that!

 

[Royston Vasey]

Yorkie I am indeed saying just that, or why would Daft. allow any approach at all from Hull trains, GC and W+S? The reason there is not more is because of the paperwork, Daft. intransigence and sleepless nights.
I do not believe privatisation was just a union-breaking exercise. It was an exercise in political dogma specifically designed to allow new players, fresh blood and, of course, the scope for entrepreneurism in an old, set-in-it's-ways industry.

Open access was imposed by Brussels in successive directives dating from 1991. It is surprising to read exactly how much of the way our railway is run is governed by Europe

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.253

Privatisation itself was precipitated by this 1991 directive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Directive_91/440

You are right though, privatisation in the UK was done with a number of political and financial aims, many of which with good intentions, but with mixed results to say the least.

 

[yorkie]

Yorkie I am indeed saying just that, or why would Daft. allow any approach at all from Hull trains, GC and W+S? The reason there is not more is because of the paperwork, Daft. intransigence and sleepless nights.

Because it's not up to them. DafT specify franchises, but they cannot prevent open access operators applying for paths, all they can do is instruct the franchise holders to object. The ORR has the final say and will instruct NR to provide paths to open access TOCs if ORR approves, in accordance with the law.

I do not believe privatisation was just a union-breaking exercise.

If it was, it has failed!

It was an exercise in political dogma specifically designed to allow new players, fresh blood and, of course, the scope for entrepreneurism in an old, set-in-it's-ways industry.

Was it? Well, maybe it was, but not any more as each franchise is specified in minute detail by DafT! But what has any of this got to do with open access TOCs?

Now I never subscribed to any of that, I loved working, albeit for only a few years, for BR, but that was the reality...despite the organisational upheavels everyone went through at the time. A vast and skilled body of Knowledge disappeared down the plughole at a stroke...but we know all that!

Agreed, but I don't see how the privatisation of BR into franchises has anything to do with GC or any other open access TOC, other than each open access operator has slightly different rivals, rather than a common rival in BR.

 

[222007]

Just got back from my trip on Grand Central. As yorkie said me and my son did indeed have a coach to ourself in first class. The staff were very professional and helpfull as you'd expect. The train was indeed an Adelante and nice and cool (didnt catch the number) complimentary refreshments readily avavilible. Both the trip there and back on time and comfortable. Anyone yet to try Grand Central id reccomend it. Would just add from sunderland there was 6 first class pax 8 from hartlepool and 10 from eaglescliff (ive not spelt that right have i? ) Also i we got off at northallerton the loadings in standard seemed quite reasonable

 

[yorkie]

Glad you had a good trip I may have done it if it was a HST.

And yes that sounds about right for the loadings. The 1230 from Sunderland typically has healthy loadings.

Unfortunately the northbound 0818 from King's Cross does not have good loadings, and that won't be rectified until GC fully participate in the yield management system all other TOCs use, and introduce Advance tickets which can be booked through all ticket booking sites (like Hull Trains do). By not getting acceptable loadings on some trains, GC have given ammunition to the bid by the East Coast franchise holders to get ORCATS revenue diverted away from GC. The Mobitix discount is a case of far too little, too late.

The idea that I go and explain to GC how they should do their ticketing by visiting their office is flawed, as I doubt they'd appreciate a random member of the public telling them how to price their fares. If GC do read this, they could always contact me. I'd like to see GC succeed, as I've said all along, but I am frustrated with their ticket policy, which has been problematic right from the start (with the abandoned 'supplement' fares for peak travel).

I did have a discussion with someone high up in GC about how someone doing a day trip to London couldn't consider GC. Not due to the timings, but the price. Unfortunately this discussion got nowhere. I'm not going to go knocking on their door to give them advice.

 

[142094]

eaglescliff (ive not spelt that right have i? )

Extra 'e' at the end! Not to be confused with Egglescliffe which is nearby. Thought I was seeing spelling mistakes in the maps I was reading the first time I saw that.

 

[GNERman]

BOTH HST sets out today

065/067 working North as we speak

084/123 bouth for The Cross

 

[caliwag]

Not up to speed...this may have been posted elsewhere...

http://www.railwaypeople.com/rail-news-articles/repowering-the-hst-1967.html

 

[Royston Vasey]

It was reported in another thread, but what wasn't reported was the 43/4 subclass, I guess 43400-43499 is the first clear set of digits not yet allocated to any PC.

Interesting, cheers

 

[Techniquest]

That's interesting, they were going to be 43901 - 906 originally weren't they?

 

[MCR247]

I thought they were going to be 43/9s.At least thats what I heard from someone who said they heard it from GC staft. I heard they would be 901, 902 etc

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

To Wensley... :razz::razz::razz:

 

[Royston Vasey]

Incidentally I said subclass, I meant the 434xx series of coach numbers! Careless of me!

 

[wensley]

Bradford crews are far nicer You are safe making PA announcements on their trains

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

pah! you passed the initiation anyways!! lol

 

[wensley]

pah! you passed the initiation anyways!! lol

Yeh! A really good couple of weeks. A rather hard last couple of hours on 1N28 last night, no air-con and a full load plus William Hague and co. in
1st class!

 

[theblackwatch]

Bradford crews are far nicer You are safe making PA announcements on their trains

Even if you're just commuting!?

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Wensley has been on work experience at head office and has been commuting/travelling on the trains and has been asked if he would like to do PAs, and I did my best loony impression the other day and managed fairly successfully to get him laughing whilst trying to make an announcement!! hehe

 

[Poolie]

Mad mix of mayhem on the way back from York tonight
Pools fans from York and racegoers from Thirsk made for a 'lively' journey

And a carriage out of use because of no lights:roll:

 

[wensley]

Wensley has been on work experience at head office and has been commuting/travelling on the trains and has been asked if he would like to do PAs, and I did my best loony impression the other day and managed fairly successfully to get him laughing whilst trying to make an announcement!! hehe

Thanks for that yeh a top 2 weeks again. Shame it had to end

also here's a good 'un for anyone in the North tomorrow...

5Z25 1532 HTONTMD - CRAIGNTNY 1747

Heaton T&RSMD dep. 1532
Newcastle Central 1542 (change ends & collect route cond.)
Craigentinney arr. 1747

This will be formed of:
43065 + TF 41204 + TS 42408 + 43067

All bound for tyre-turning on the lathe at Craigy and will return on completion.

Ta for the info

 

[oliverj8]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if an HST is going to be on the 11:27 from King's Cross to Sunderland tomorrow?

Thanks in advance,

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if an HST is going to be on the 11:27 from King's Cross to Sunderland tomorrow?

Thanks in advance,

It should be, HST worked the 08:18 northbound today, 12:30 Southbound then 16:50 back up. More than likely to be a HST.

 

[wensley]

Confirmed hst - 43084/123

 

[MidnightFlyer]

GC want their West Riding trains to call at Mirfield now, ASAP, if they can fit them in between local trains