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Grand Central Discussion
- Thread starter Donny Dave
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Hopefully they'll stop advertising it here then.
No need to register there anyway, as if anyone asks for 'gen' here, it will be provided. Comprehensive gen on HST workings is at hstgen.co.uk (I have no connection to that site) and daily updates on GC HST workings, no need for a separate GC gen site at all.
I generally find the GC gen OK on the Yahoo Group, or as OK as it can be given GC's apparent penchant for last minute changes. Since the Bradfords have started and the number of 180s they need each day has gone up, the quality of gen has risen as GC seemingly have fewer options to swap out HSTs at short notice.
theblackwatch
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BOSCH
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Btw, where had Bosch been the last few weeks: I haven't seen him (or heard one of his HSTs) in ages...
I have been in foreign climes sampling various local brews etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ah yes,I remember it well,"sigh" !!!
wensley
Established Member
Thought you might have been on leave, hope you had a good time
Also hope that it aint too long 'til I see you driving a HST again
Solent&Wessex
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I note that the 1022 Bradford Interchange to London Kings Cross, and 1420 return appear to be cancelled every day at the moment due to a shortage of serviceable rolling stock. Word is that they are cancelled every day this week, and the GC website appears to advertising them as cancelled on a day by day basis. Seems the 180s are as reliable as ever!!
As an aside, GC website also advertises the prospect of additional trains between York / Darlington to Hartlepool from 7th to 9th August in connection with the Tall Ships event in Hartlepool. As I have every confidence that TPE and Northern will make absolutely no effort at all in providing extra capacity in that neck of the woods, that might prove quite valuable. But if they can't even run the current service, who knows what will happen.
As an aside, GC website also advertises the prospect of additional trains between York / Darlington to Hartlepool from 7th to 9th August in connection with the Tall Ships event in Hartlepool. As I have every confidence that TPE and Northern will make absolutely no effort at all in providing extra capacity in that neck of the woods, that might prove quite valuable. But if they can't even run the current service, who knows what will happen.
tbtc
Veteran Member
What additional capacity do you suggest Northern throw at Hartlepool? All those hundreds of spare DMUs they have?
If Grand Central can't manage to run their existing Bradford services then it seems strange to run additional trains to Hartlepool...
Not sure if you saw my post but Northern have done this in the past with strengthened services at Christmas and when local football derbies are on.
Solent&Wessex
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As it is a weekend Northern have quite a few spare units, which have been used before to strengthen some services, especially in the North West. However, they often seem more reluctant to strengthen things in the North East for events.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Going by how reliable (sic) the 57s have been on the GW loco hauled turn, I doubt GC would like to use them!
Then there'd be the getting the route clearance and all that stuff sorted. I don't see any chance of loco haulage making any return to GC any time soon.
Agreed though their new services being cancelled all the time at the moment can hardly look good! Did someone say, some time back now, that the 180s were performing better now they're up north? Looks more like to me that they're about as reliable as they were when they were on the Western!
Then there'd be the getting the route clearance and all that stuff sorted. I don't see any chance of loco haulage making any return to GC any time soon.
Agreed though their new services being cancelled all the time at the moment can hardly look good! Did someone say, some time back now, that the 180s were performing better now they're up north? Looks more like to me that they're about as reliable as they were when they were on the Western!
You could use a loco hauled set on the Sunderland line, presuambly already cleared, and cascade another 180 onto the Bradfords. Anything's got to be better than the potentially ruinous farce that's going on at the moment. How long before this story turns up on Look North, with distastrous consequences?
tbtc
Veteran Member
I'm surprised Look Leeds haven't covered it yet. Would have been much better to introduce one or two trains a day to Bradford, rather than stretch things too far (I appreciate that some disruptions are unforseeable, and everything is easier with hindsight, but this could be quite a setback)
gordonthemoron
Established Member
Isn't this exactly the same as when GC started the Sunderland servce?
tbtc
Veteran Member
...when they maintined a London - York service (but not the full Sunderland one)?
Lampshade
Established Member
Didn't they have a Sunderland - York shuttle to connect with the HST service?
Hull Trains really seem to have sorted out the 180 reliability problems. In fact, according to it's website PPM figures are at their highest for some time:
Perhaps this is partly because the units are now maintained at Old Oak Common again, where maintenance teams have had more experience with the 180s.
Perhaps this is partly because the units are now maintained at Old Oak Common again, where maintenance teams have had more experience with the 180s.
Failed Unit
Established Member
They did both,
Priority 1 was the peak service, run the morning train down to London, then London - York, York - London and London - Sunderland.
Later a York - Sunderland shuttle was also introduced to this service pattern.
IIRC and probably if you look through the earlier post of the very thread this went on for a number of weeks and didn't do them much damage so in effect what is happen now is no worse than the Sunderland service at start up. Maybe next time go for a low key launch.
Critics may state they should just run Bradford - Doncaster for connections (I wonder if they would be allowed to stop the Sunderland service for connection in this case). Cynics will say they did when the Sunderland problems occured that the want to Maximise the ORCAT's share so GC would sooner run London - Doncaster. Hopefully they will get it sorted soon, or the GC bashers will be back again.
wensley
Established Member
180105 is currently having its tyres turned and '107 is under repair at Heaton. Work is being carried out AFAP to get the sets back in traffic and to resume the full diagram.
I was out today on the 180 working Diagram 432 as well as watching the 4th path. Here's the day's story:
Due to cable theft in the Stockton area Grand Central Trains services have been
subject to delays in both directions.
THE LINE IS NOW CLEAR AND SERVICES ARE OPERATING AS NORMAL. 1N26, 1A63, 1N28,
1N29 SHOULD NOT SUFFER ANY DISRUPTION.
1A61 (180112 "James Herriot"),
0918 SUNDRLND - KINGSX 1253
Departed Sunderland on time. Worked forward to Hartlepool and left on time. Due
to cable theft affecting the section of line between Hartburn Jnc and Stockton
Cut Jnc the train was diverted via Bowesfield Jnc to the Down Platform at
Thornaby Station. The train then reversed and crossed onto the 'Up' line prior
to re-joining it's booked route at Stockton Cut Jnc. Arrival at Eaglescliffe was
21 late. This service recovered time and arrived at London 10mins late.
1N25 (180114),
0818 KINGSX - SUNDRLND 1224
Departed Northallerton on time. Worked forward to Eaglescliffe and left on time.
Due to cable theft affecting the section of line between Hartburn Jnc and
Stockton Cut Jnc the train was diverted via Bowesfield Jnc to the Down Platform
at Thornaby Station. The train then reversed to Bowesfield Jnc and then ran
subsequently to Hartburn Jnc prior to re-joining it's booked route. Arrival at
Hartlepool was 27 late. This service lost no further time and arrived at
Sunderland 27mins late.
1A62 (180114),
1230 SUNDRLND - KINGSX 1605
Departed Sunderland 26mins late due to the delayed arrival of 1N25. Worked
forward along booked route folllowing re-instatment of the section of line
between Hartburn Jnc and Stockton Cut Jnc by Network Rail. Arrival at
Eaglescliffe was 38 late. Arrival at Northallerton was 32 late. Arrival at
Thirsk was 31 late. Arrival at York was 30 late. This service is currently
running approximately 27mins late
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not strictly speaking fair. The problem lies with a single set in this instance, 180105. The GC fleet is stretched meaning 1 failed 180 causes major problems.
I was out today on the 180 working Diagram 432 as well as watching the 4th path. Here's the day's story:
Due to cable theft in the Stockton area Grand Central Trains services have been
subject to delays in both directions.
THE LINE IS NOW CLEAR AND SERVICES ARE OPERATING AS NORMAL. 1N26, 1A63, 1N28,
1N29 SHOULD NOT SUFFER ANY DISRUPTION.
1A61 (180112 "James Herriot"),
0918 SUNDRLND - KINGSX 1253
Departed Sunderland on time. Worked forward to Hartlepool and left on time. Due
to cable theft affecting the section of line between Hartburn Jnc and Stockton
Cut Jnc the train was diverted via Bowesfield Jnc to the Down Platform at
Thornaby Station. The train then reversed and crossed onto the 'Up' line prior
to re-joining it's booked route at Stockton Cut Jnc. Arrival at Eaglescliffe was
21 late. This service recovered time and arrived at London 10mins late.
1N25 (180114),
0818 KINGSX - SUNDRLND 1224
Departed Northallerton on time. Worked forward to Eaglescliffe and left on time.
Due to cable theft affecting the section of line between Hartburn Jnc and
Stockton Cut Jnc the train was diverted via Bowesfield Jnc to the Down Platform
at Thornaby Station. The train then reversed to Bowesfield Jnc and then ran
subsequently to Hartburn Jnc prior to re-joining it's booked route. Arrival at
Hartlepool was 27 late. This service lost no further time and arrived at
Sunderland 27mins late.
1A62 (180114),
1230 SUNDRLND - KINGSX 1605
Departed Sunderland 26mins late due to the delayed arrival of 1N25. Worked
forward along booked route folllowing re-instatment of the section of line
between Hartburn Jnc and Stockton Cut Jnc by Network Rail. Arrival at
Eaglescliffe was 38 late. Arrival at Northallerton was 32 late. Arrival at
Thirsk was 31 late. Arrival at York was 30 late. This service is currently
running approximately 27mins late
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Going by how reliable (sic) the 57s have been on the GW loco hauled turn, I doubt GC would like to use them!
Then there'd be the getting the route clearance and all that stuff sorted. I don't see any chance of loco haulage making any return to GC any time soon.
Agreed though their new services being cancelled all the time at the moment can hardly look good! Did someone say, some time back now, that the 180s were performing better now they're up north? Looks more like to me that they're about as reliable as they were when they were on the Western!
Not strictly speaking fair. The problem lies with a single set in this instance, 180105. The GC fleet is stretched meaning 1 failed 180 causes major problems.
theblackwatch
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Or even use their own loco-hauled coaches!?
Solent&Wessex
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I am all in favour of open access operators, and have good service on Grand Central when I have used them. I have tried to recommend them to friends in the past but they have normally sided with East Coast as they are cheaper. HOWEVER, when you run such a limited service (4 each way on North East, 3 each way on West Riding) it makes sense to ensure you have sufficient stock on hand to cater for the worst case situation. If East Coast cancel a train you hardly notice as there are so many. If they have maintenance issues with a couple of sets then with a bit of "stepping up" and flexible diagramming you wouldn't notice. The same with other TOCs. If, with only one unit causing problems, this has such a noticeable effect on the daily service then surely the fleet is being stretched too far, and a more robust or reliable fleet should have been available prior to launching any new service.
BOSCH
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I took 105 to bounds green on monday,by all accounts it came back north last night to heaton so shouldnt be too far away from service !
Sir_Clagalot
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I wouldnt say you wouldnt notice an EC being cancelled as you then get two trains worth of passengers trying to board one train...
Do they have any? I know the HST trailers they use were once hauled stock, but post-conversion, can they still be used that way?
theblackwatch
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They've got a small number if Mk. 2s, though they don't seem to have bothered retrieving the one at Darlington since it joined the fleet.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Sometimes, yes, and sometimes, no.
I think kwvr45's point was that EC, or any other well-stocked operator has much more scope to provide a replacement at short notice, and at a useful location.
By way of example, an EC HST developed some power car problems on the Inveness run a couple of weeks ago (driver noticed leading PC cutting out occasionally. Even if the PC developed a permanent fault, it could have managed to keep going at less than 125mph, but timings would have begun to suffer as the day progressed. He reported the issue and control planned a solution). EC were able to provide a full replacement HST to pick up its diagrams and they planned a swap on one of the double length platforms at Waverley.
Not only did EC have the right stock available in the right place, but they even managed to have duplicate seat reservation tickets ready in place on all
seat-backs. Passengers were all advised of the simple transfer to an identical train set a short walk down the same platform with staff ready to assist.
Now there's a great deal of work required to make these seamless swaps work, and no further time was lost during the swap, but the crucial difference is nothing to do with franchisee vs open access, nor one company vs another, its simply having enough stock available ready for service.
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