Grand Central Discussion

[kelladam96]

Gc

 

[90019]

Gc

I meant can we see your source?

 

[kelladam96]

Sorry, false alarm at the moment!

 

[johnb]

Not so much "for the moment" as "forever". The model of MTU engine that's fitted to NXEC and FGW HSTs is no longer in production, because *it* doesn't meet emissions regulations.

The way emissions regulations work for HSTs is through 'grandfathering', so a train that's currently got Valentas can have them replaced with other Valentas, but can't have them replaced by the NXEC/FGW variety of MTUs (even if there were any, which there aren't).

 

[MCR247]

If MTUs dont meeet standard then, what was the point in replacing valentas? :? To get enthusiasts off the stations?

 

[Failed Unit]

If MTUs dont meeet standard then, what was the point in replacing valentas? :? To get enthusiasts off the stations?

The did when they were fitted, the standards just keep getting tougher.

 

[Royston Vasey]

GC have been told to fit their HSTs with MTU engines by the end of 2010 due to valenta emissions.

A few things which make me want to know more.

Who has told them this? If it's Network Rail, then they would do so on the basis of reliability not emissions. The PCs availability doesn't really justify this. Is it the DfT? It wouldn't be the EU because this would be incompatible with their practice:

Emissions legislation only applies to new vehicles produced at the time it is in force. For cars, this is currently Euro 4, soon to be Euro 5, but it doesn't mean you can't run your 20 year old banger. Otherwise you'd have to re-engine buses, trucks and cars every three years. Some ships and industrial vehicles are decades old! Why would they make an exception for 6 powerplants in a very specific application?

Finally if they have been asked to re-engine the PCs, then there would be no specification of MTU anyway as this is a specific Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), unless this is merely your assumption. Legislation is always impartial.

Not doubting you, just asking questions.

 

[kelladam96]

Right, complete false alarm, my source must have been misinformed

Panic over

 

[GNERman]

i'm lookin forward to the start of the bradford services as it says on the gc website

 

[kelladam96]

i'm lookin forward to the start of the bradford services as it says on the gc website

Yes, me too and the refurbished class 180s

 

[GNERman]

should be similar to the hst's but with new logo etc...

 

[kelladam96]

should be similar to the hst's but with new logo etc...

Good good

Can't wait to see the new livery and logo on the HSTs!

 

[paul1609]

Not so much "for the moment" as "forever". The model of MTU engine that's fitted to NXEC and FGW HSTs is no longer in production, because *it* doesn't meet emissions regulations.

The way emissions regulations work for HSTs is through 'grandfathering', so a train that's currently got Valentas can have them replaced with other Valentas, but can't have them replaced by the NXEC/FGW variety of MTUs (even if there were any, which there aren't).

This isnt actually true, under the stage 3/4 EU emissions requirement a replacement engine only has to meet the exhaust requirements of the original engine.
Also whilst its true that the exact engine fitted to the NXEC and FGWs HSTs is no longer in production there is a current rail version of the MTU 4000 16cyl that meets all the current legislation. Its a bit like comparing a 09 plate fiesta with a 08 plate fiesta.

I could imagine that Network Rail could impose a restriction on the use of valentas in enclosed stations like kings cross on health and safety grounds but that would be nothing to do with EU exhaust emissions. I know that class 171s are banned from Victoria because there is no equipment for dealing with the exhaust. Equipment fitted for the Thumpers was in the wrong place and it wasnt worth moving it for 1 or 2 trains per peak.

 

[williamn]

If the caterings the same as it was on my recent grand central experience it will be doing the passengers a favour if its left behind!

is the catering not up to much then?

 

[GNERman]

the catering's very good on gc services, what's the problem?

 

[kelladam96]

the catering's very good on gc services, what's the problem?

Agreed, the catering is very good, always has been

 

[paul1609]

is the catering not up to much then?

I can only comment based on one experience but on the 07.57 ex Kings Cross the only hot food on the menu was: Hot bacon Roll or Hot Sausage Roll.
I opted for the Bacon Roll @ £3.00, big mistake probably the worst product I'd sampled post BR. Dry and Stale tasting.
There was also a choice of a wide range of Egg and Cress sandwiches all two of them.
A few packets of crisps and nuts and some alcholic drinks.
Although there was some kind of coffee machine I was given Kenco instant in a pre-prepared plastic cup. Normally this is okay but the hot water was put in the cup direct from a BR stills type boiler and was far too hot and as a consequence it tasted awful.
Pretty awful really and a far cry from what was promised in the early days- what happened to the restaurant car?

Its fair to point out this train is far from busy empty in first class and about 25% in standard most of which emptied at York.

My advice buy food before boarding.

 

[GNERman]

this is just one verdict on the food, in my mind the food is very good and always has been

 

[kelladam96]

Must have just been a bad batch, the food i've had was always good

 

[GNERman]

yeah same, i just got my new gc hst model today, it's not that bad actually, good motor but logo is wrong, yellow on front is dull and white bit on roof...

 

[kelladam96]

I cancelled mine, because I want to sort my track e.t.c out and Hornby e-mailed me to say that the new logo would appear on future models (yeah right, after previous experiences with Hornby I don't hold out much hope)

 

[GNERman]

i like it at the moment with the old logo, there is no indication of when or if the hst's get the amber stripe but should get the new logo

 

[kelladam96]

True the old logo is good, but the timetables show the HSTs in the new livery as does their ad campaign

 

[GNERman]

yeah i know, it looks good with the stripe

 

[robertclark125]

Regarding the MTU's being fitted to GC power cars, it's likely this could also be due to the amount of times that the emmisions from the Valentas have set off the fire alarms at Sunderland station.

 

[GNERman]

and the mtu's will do the job so much better? anyway it has only happened a couple of times, it's not like every time

 

[kelladam96]

Unfortunately I'll probably be back at school if the first orange stripe HST is released soon

As stated above, MTUs are a false alarm and the valentas are performing very well, it;s the natex mtu's you hear about breaking down, not GC valentas

 

[GNERman]

plus gc have over 150 spare valenta engines from others now mtu'd so they will last longer

 

[kelladam96]

Over 150? Blimey! So that's why they're fixed so quickly after engine faults?

 

[GNERman]

yeah loads of spares