Grand Central Discussion

[adambro]

Even more reason to use some heritage traction, might be a good way to recoup some of their costs...

Good plan until to realise that most rail enthusiasts are probably using some full price dodge to keep the fare low.

 

[yorkie]

I have heard that top n tail 37s were at Holgate Sidings and they are now going to Sunderland to run the 1730 to York, arriving 1904. Then running the 1920(ish) from York to Sunderland (this is the 1650 ex-KGX retimed to 1725ish from King's Cross to York).

It may be a false rumour though, so don't get too excited.

 

[diligentdave]

I have heard that top n tail 37s were at Holgate Sidings and they are now going to Sunderland to run the 1730 to York, arriving 1904. Then running the 1920(ish) from York to Sunderland (this is the 1650 ex-KGX retimed to 1725ish from King's Cross to York).

It may be a false rumour though, so don't get too excited.

Definately!!
Seeing as the 1920 (ish) from York to Sunderland will be the HST set that is on its way as we speak to KX to form the 1650 to Sunderland throughout.

As posted on other forums, the 37's and 67's won;t be running. Fullstop. End of sentence

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

diligentdave, I thought you were supposed to be working...?

 

[yorkie]

1650 KGX-SUN departed only 10 late (Press release said it'd be 35 late) but it's losing time at an alarming rate, 24 late passing Stevenage. It should not take 35 mins to do KGX-SVG.

The 1700 was on time and the 1703 and 1708 are stuck behind the 1650 and are both 14 late and getting later as a result. It's even delaying the 1715 and 1720!!

 

[37412]

Is there a PC out on that then if it's loosing time like it is?

 

[37402]

GC had better get Heaton to batter the demic p/c overnight then if that's the case, fraid EWS ain't got any more tractors for you to use after these two (now DRS on the other hand...)

 

[1D53]

Even on one powercar you wouldn't be losing that much time.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Royston Vasey]

Is there a PC out on that then if it's loosing time like it is?

There was, I was travelling on FCC north towards Royston out of KGX this afternoon and saw the set on its way south, 40 mins or so late. It pelted past us at Welwyn, 084 sounding good up front but can confirm 123 was idling at best at the back...

Anyone know if this made it to Sunderland this evening?

PS I'm new to this place, go easy on me! But been following the GC story on here and elsewhere for a while as I'm from Sunderland and used them with no problems at Easter - am going back north for bank holiday weekend so fingers crossed it'll be on GC

 

[87015]

red pens on standby for EH tractors??

 

[theblackwatch]

red pens on standby for EH tractors??

I'm sure for a few it will be their first examples on service trains....

 

[yorkie]

There Anyone know if this made it to Sunderland this evening?

Yes, it didn't lose too much more time after that, and got to Sunderland at 2112.

 

[87015]

I'm sure for a few it will be their first examples on service trains....

don't think 401 worked in Rhymney much so even more so .... flapping reached fever pitch yet in Doncaster/York/Sunderland/South Elmsall?

 

[class 313]

Yes, it didn't lose too much more time after that, and got to Sunderland at 2112.

Well I wouldn't of thought it would get delayed too much if it was just one PC running as its only load 5 and an Idling PC on the rear, of course, there could of been more/different faults. fGW have had it where one power car has hauled the full standard set on its own

 

[theblackwatch]

No GC trains running at present, I gather the HST suffered a fire at Thirsk this morning. Only York-Sunderland which may run today is the one this evening (no idea of power before anyone asks).

 

[1D53]

Oh dear oh dear! Hopefully they can get everything to Heaton and manage to make one full set from what is left, at least allowing them to run one set and have the tractors doing the rest.

 

[yorkie]

They need more than one train each way to fill to make money - and the
payment for hiring in 67s and Mk2s won't be cheap. (67s are very
expensive to hire). On top of that there's likely to be compensation
to pay for any delays caused by running a 100mph train in a 125mph
path.

The bill for the hire of the 67s/Mk2s two weeks ago has been sent -
I'm sure EWS will want to see payment pretty quickly after the ORR
ruling supporting Northern Rail re. the credit it is offering to GC.
(Invoices for Heaton to be paid 5 days after being submitted, no "30
days" terms).

Also - DfT sources remind me that Grand Central was given approval to
run on the basis that its owners said it would not extract ANY revenue
from the York - London flow belonging to GNER/NXEC.. If it is found
that the company is only staying afloat because of an ORCATS raid then
its whole financial model will have to be changed.

Finally - again - the Grand Central operation is for sale... if the
business is sound then its odd that not a single TOC owning group has
snapped it up - even just for the HST sets!!
(I've checked with two major groups so far "we wouldn't go near it -
no business case" was the reply from both...) Interesting?

Interesting. I knew Northern were in dispute with NT over payment of invoices, I didn't know the ORR sided with Northern. 5 days to pay invoices... is this unprecedented in the industry? NT must be very concerned to have requested it, and the fact ORR backed them is .... well, make up your own minds about that.

I imagine the compensation payments from GC, plus hire of alternative stock must be huge.

Hopefully the 37s can keep down the costs compared to the expensive 67s while the HSTs are repaired.

I may pop down to York later to do this northbound run.

 

[class 313]

Hopefully the 37s can keep down the costs compared to the expensive 67s while the HSTs are repaired.

But 37s are slower than 67s thus will be more expensive running in 125mph slots.

 

[87015]

No GC trains running at present, I gather the HST suffered a fire at Thirsk this morning. Only York-Sunderland which may run today is the one this evening (no idea of power before anyone asks).

There must be some Virgin Trains input into this shambles of an operation - the mentality if nothing else!!

 

[djw1981]

Interesting. I knew Northern were in dispute with NT over payment of invoices, I didn't know the ORR sided with Northern. 5 days to pay invoices... is this unprecedented in the industry? NT must be very concerned to have requested it, and the fact ORR backed them is .... well, make up your own minds about that.

I imagine the compensation payments from GC, plus hire of alternative stock must be huge.

Hopefully the 37s can keep down the costs compared to the expensive 67s while the HSTs are repaired.

I may pop down to York later to do this northbound run.

Also be aware Tony Miles dislike of GC and his 'hyper-critical' attitude towards them throughout. Some elsewhere, including that Google groups thread have suggested it is connected to his amount of TOC work.

IIRC the NT/GC/ORR thing was about the size of 'deposit' that GC could lodge to guarantee payment, and the effect this had upon the company's credit rating (which NT looked at before offering any credit).

 

[theblackwatch]

Interesting. I knew Northern were in dispute with NT over payment of invoices, I didn't know the ORR sided with Northern. 5 days to pay invoices... is this unprecedented in the industry? NT must be very concerned to have requested it, and the fact ORR backed them is .... well, make up your own minds about that.

The 5 days isn't something new - it is dated October 28th 2007 (before GC even started running trains) and will be reviewed after 12 months! Looking at Tony's postings in various places, he does appear to have a dislike of GC.

 

[djw1981]

It has been posted elsewhere about the swapping of skips for tractors was that the GC safety case only covers pre-privatisation stock / loco, i.e. not 67's, 180, 222, etc

 

[class 313]

It has been posted elsewhere about the swapping of skips for tractors was that the GC safety case only covers pre-privatisation stock / loco, i.e. not 67's, 180, 222, etc

But GC have used 67s TnT with Mk2s

 

[djw1981]

So???

AIUI thats when someone reminded them that they had no safety case for them.....

 

[class 313]

So???

AIUI thats when someone reminded them that they had no safety case for them.....

Oh ok.

 

[37412]

don't think 401 worked in Rhymney much so even more so .... flapping reached fever pitch yet in Doncaster/York/Sunderland/South Elmsall?

401 was a regular on the beds in the last year or so (05/06), I remember a few times arriving at Edinburgh and doing the airport bus for a few hours kip before getting back to the station for the 0450 departure 8)

 

[paul1609]

Also be aware Tony Miles dislike of GC and his 'hyper-critical' attitude towards them throughout. Some elsewhere, including that Google groups thread have suggested it is connected to his amount of TOC work.

IIRC the NT/GC/ORR thing was about the size of 'deposit' that GC could lodge to guarantee payment, and the effect this had upon the company's credit rating (which NT looked at before offering any credit).

I dont think that Tony Miles has that much if any work with TOCs. His railway journalism is part-time. His main job is with BBC Manchester I understand.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

all this speculation... and all journos like to 'big up' a non-story to try and sell their mags/papers/etc.

 

[yorkie]

37401 sounded hellfire today departing YRK at 1915. The driver seemed to be having fun!

I will be doing the 37s at every opportunity. I really should have done the Valentas more often but the unpreditableness and being 'bowled' a few times has put me off.

(BTW all those who owe me money for those trips I booked this Summer can pay on the 37s if you come up to York to do them :grin

 

[37412]

37401 sounded hellfire today departing YRK at 1915. The driver seemed to be having fun!

I will be doing the 37s at every opportunity. I really should have done the Valentas more often but the unpreditableness and being 'bowled' a few times has put me off.

(BTW all those who owe me money for those trips I booked this Summer can pay on the 37s if you come up to York to do them :grin

Do we know when they are working yet and from when?