Graffiti, what can be done?

[falcon]

I traveled from Birmingham to Sheffield recently and just about every piece of railway infrastructure and many buildings adjacent to the railway had graffiti on them. And I do mean just about every piece! Most of the graffiti is nothing other than scribble.Much of it requires trespass on a railway that is very heavily fenced in all areas.Some of the graffiti will have taken a sustained period of time to administer such as large murals containing many colours. It looks an absolute disgrace and it thoroughly depressing in it's depiction of utter lawlessness.How has this been allowed to manifest to this level!

Can anything be done?:-x

 

[anti-pacer]

I traveled from Birmingham to Sheffield recently and just about every piece of railway infrastructure and many buildings adjacent to the railway had graffiti on them. And I do mean just about every piece! Most of the graffiti is nothing other than scribble.Much of it requires trespass on a railway that is very heavily fenced in all areas.Some of the graffiti will have taken a sustained period of time to administer such as large murals containing many colours. It looks an absolute disgrace and it thoroughly depressing in it's depiction of utter lawlessness.How has this been allowed to manifest to this level!

Can anything be done?:-x

I agree it's bad but I'd rather see that than fly-tipping and rubbish everywhere! Now that is an absolute disgrace!

 

[142094]

Unless you have a copper every 100m along the fence, then no. You can reduce it to a certain extent but it will never go away.

And you'd be surprised how quickly someone/a group can tag a train. I've known the whole side of a carriage to be tagged in 15 minutes. Took 3 1/2 hours to clean off.

 

[Muzer]

Lol, for a minute there I misread that as "Unless you have copper every 100m along the fence" - the graffiti vandals are too busy then becoming metal thieves to graffiti?

 

[142094]

Might be cheaper than paying the wages/pension of x number of PCs!

 

[185]

Ivy is the answer. Grow it everywhere, nothing to spray.

 

[142094]

Brambles would be even better.

 

[1e10]

I'm new here and don't know much about the railway so forgive me if this sounds stupid.

Are trains not kept in sheds or something similar that would prevent this sort of stuff happening when not in use?

 

[142094]

I'm new here and don't know much about the railway so forgive me if this sounds stupid.

Are trains not kept in sheds or something similar that would prevent this sort of stuff happening when not in use?

Most depots have running sheds, but a lot of stock is stored in the open air on stabling roads. The vandals know where the depots are located, and a lot of them now know other weak points on the network. Only so much a security guard can do.

New York had one of the worst graffiti problems in the 70s and 80s, although some of the work was quite spectacular. Eventually when the Metropolitan Transit Authority acquired some funds, new fencing, extra security and anti-graffiti paintwork stopped it from happening.

These days graffiti is normally removed very quickly from rolling stock, unless it cannot get back to the depot.

 

[Mojo]

London Underground's infrastructure seems to be in much better state than Network Rail's graffiti-wise. Take a ride along the Met from Harrow/Hill to Finchley Rd for example and on the left is the Underground's boundary which is virtually graffiti-free save a few small bits, yet on the right alongside the unelectrified lines used by the Chiltern services everything seems to be covered.

Overall though, the network does seem to be a lot cleaner than it did 10 years ago. I remember standing at the Bridge in the pre-Electrostar era and seeing Networker after Networker come in covered with graffiti. Save for the odd few trains (and it's mainly Capital Connect) I can count the number of trains I've seen covered in graffiti, in service, this year on one hand.

 

[yorkie]

Are trains not kept in sheds or something similar that would prevent this sort of stuff happening when not in use?

I imagine the cost of sheds for all trains would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[dysonsphere]

I imagine the cost of sheds for all trains would be prohibitively expensive.

and try getting planning premission

 

[eMeS]

...Much of it requires trespass on a railway that is very heavily fenced in all areas.Some of the graffiti will have taken a sustained period of time to administer such as large murals containing many colours. ...

Can anything be done?:-x

If we knew the "Who" of your subject line, I'm sure prosecution might be possible, but in the arts community, graffiti and that of Banksi is revered. Blame the easy availability of the spray paint can.

Relatively recent security changes to the WCML running through Milton Keynes have made even visual track access very difficult. I'm thinking of the over-bridge at Bleak Hall from which viewing of the Denbigh North junction is now very difficult. Viewing from bridges gets easier some miles away from the more populated areas of the Milton Keynes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I did notice, over the years, that the inward-facing railside lineside walls of the section from Manchester Piccadilly to Ardwick had received the attention of these mindless scribblers but there had been the use of paint by the railway authorities to blank off whole wall sections of the drivel.

I am amazed that in such an extremely busy location, that the perpetrators were not seen on CCTV.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

and try getting planning premission

As far as am aware, operational railway buildings do not need planning permission.

 

[ryan125hst]

Lol, for a minute there I misread that as "Unless you have copper every 100m along the fence" - the graffiti vandals are too busy then becoming metal thieves to graffiti?

I was thinking the same, although I was also thinking along the electrified fence route. That would stop the graffiti vandals and the metal thieves.

 

[Eagle]

Ivy is the answer. Grow it everywhere, nothing to spray.

And when the mortar of the brickwork crumbles away because of ivy root damage, causing structures to collapse...?

 

[RPM]

London Underground's infrastructure seems to be in much better state than Network Rail's graffiti-wise. Take a ride along the Met from Harrow/Hill to Finchley Rd for example and on the left is the Underground's boundary which is virtually graffiti-free save a few small bits, yet on the right alongside the unelectrified lines used by the Chiltern services everything seems to be covered.

Yes the difference is very noticeable along that stretch. LU tend to paint over graffiti within a few days of it appearing whereas NR do it every few years. No doubt the LU approach comes at a considerable cost though.

 

[DarloRich]

As far as am aware, operational railway buildings do not need planning permission.

errrrrrrrrr - are you sure?

 

[starrymarkb]

I recently saw a video of a open day ride* through the new Leipzig City Tunnel filmed in 2012 and there was a large amount of Graffiti already in the tunnels.

I do like artistic graffiti (like the new paint around Exe Bridges in Exeter) - I'm not a fan of tagging

*Seats had been fitted to a couple of construction flatbeds and for a weekend the public were taken for rides through the tunnel.

 

[transmanche]

but in the arts community, graffiti and that of Banksi is revered.

I think most people are able to appreciate the difference between:

and

I'd be happy to have one on my wall and not the other. Can you guess which?

 

[Marklund]

errrrrrrrrr - are you sure?

Yes, Network Rail, as a Statutory Undertaker, has certain permitted development rights across England, Wales and Scotland (although under separate legislation) to undertake certain works without planning permission.

 

[johnnychips]

Try a week in Naples if you think it's bad here.

 

[falcon]

Try a week in Naples if you think it's bad here.

It seems that most of the European Countries have a really bad problem with all this graffiti.But it was not there 30 yrs ago so what has happened for it to get so out of control.

It is now spreading to public areas in the UK.If it is not stopped we will all be living a permanent slum in 5yrs. The blame lies at the door of the government for not having legislation to make prosecution easier.In some states in the USA you have to be 18 to buy spray paint.Not that that wold help as I think most of them are over 18 anyway!

A new charge of "being on railway property in position of spray paints without lawful authority" instead of trying to convict for criminal damage which you just about have to be seen doing to get convicted of.The criminal damage law also fails as the defendant can elect for trail by jury (far to costly).

It seems Network rail and the BTP are doing what they can.The Government and the media do not give this a high priority.It's far more important that a female TV Chef was grabbed around the throat by a 70 year old man.

 

[Marklund]

It seems Network rail ... are doing what they can.

Not in my humble opinion. Their clean up times after a public complaint is made are not quick enough.

 

[class303]

I'd say graffiti is getting much less. 10 or so years ago the approach to Euston was saturated with the stuff, relatively clear now. Approach to Liverpool street, virtually none as well (no idea how bad it used to be). As for the London Underground? what graffiti? it's spotless! complete contrast to 15 or so years ago. I think the railways are winning the fight.

ps i'm actually a huge fan of the stuff so am actually quite sad at the lack of it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

London Underground's infrastructure seems to be in much better state than Network Rail's graffiti-wise. Take a ride along the Met from Harrow/Hill to Finchley Rd for example and on the left is the Underground's boundary which is virtually graffiti-free save a few small bits, yet on the right alongside the unelectrified lines used by the Chiltern services everything seems to be covered.

Overall though, the network does seem to be a lot cleaner than it did 10 years ago. I remember standing at the Bridge in the pre-Electrostar era and seeing Networker after Networker come in covered with graffiti. Save for the odd few trains (and it's mainly Capital Connect) I can count the number of trains I've seen covered in graffiti, in service, this year on one hand.

i'd second everything MOJO has just said.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I traveled from Birmingham to Sheffield recently and just about every piece of railway infrastructure and many buildings adjacent to the railway had graffiti on them. And I do mean just about every piece! Most of the graffiti is nothing other than scribble.Much of it requires trespass on a railway that is very heavily fenced in all areas.Some of the graffiti will have taken a sustained period of time to administer such as large murals containing many colours. It looks an absolute disgrace and it thoroughly depressing in it's depiction of utter lawlessness.How has this been allowed to manifest to this level!

Can anything be done?:-x

is the sheffield area still plagued by "BLOODAXE"?

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, Network Rail, as a Statutory Undertaker, has certain permitted development rights across England, Wales and Scotland (although under separate legislation) to undertake certain works without planning permission.

NR has , under part 17 of schedule 2 to the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development Order 1995, the right to carry out certain developments on its operational land in connection with the movement of traffic by rail without having to make a planning application.

You seemed to suggest that they could just knock up sheds willy nilly. I would suggest they can not do this due to the caveat in clause A1Ci of the same legislation which indicates that development is not permitted for "a building used for an industrial process" A maintenance shed may fall under this definition.

The permitted development rights really relate to operational matters like GSMR masts rather than construction works.

 

[HSTEd]

And I can't imagine the expense of putting secure sheds in place of every stabling siding on the network....

 

[martybabes]

I'm surprised that an organisation can spend hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of pounds on their assets and yet store them outside in what is clearly insecure compounds. Investing a few more £££ in an effective security presence seems to have escaped them.

For about 20 grand a year, I am sure you could get someone to wander round the premises/location from last thing at night until first thing in the morning - all they need is a uniform, a drinks flask, some sarnies and a mobile phone with which to call the police when necessary.

 

[transmanche]

all they need is a uniform, a drinks flask, some sarnies and a mobile phone with which to call the police when necessary.

And a hungry dog!