Gospel Oak to Barking electrification in next week's budget ?

[lancastrian]

Cut a whole in the floor. Just practise your aim first!

Make them run with Pacers, they are already toilets!

 

[jopsuk]

Well thats the cab sorted out but what about the toilets!

Again, a modular unit, though I'm not sure at what stage it gets added during the build. I really doubt it would be that difficult to fit, certainly easier than many loo fitting projects. This sort of thing is part of the reason for the modular assembly approach- the other (larger reason) being that you can build sub assemblies at multiple subcontractors worldwide and bring them together in one place

 

[tbtc]

A 171 has couplers for fitting to an EMU not a fellow DMU

Since the 171s were built with the same couplers that the 172s currently have, it'd presumably be possible to give 172s the couplers that 171s now have?

 

[joeykins82]

Also what's the speed limit of the LO 172s? Did they get the 75mph ones or the 100mph ones? If it's 75mph then permanently attaching it to a 100mph train has another issue.

According to Wikipedia at least all sub classes of c172 are 100mph capable; it would make sense to have specified them to be 100mph since they'll have presumably been intended as a stop-gap measure while the route is electrified

 

[northwichcat]

Since the 171s were built with the same couplers that the 172s currently have, it'd presumably be possible to give 172s the couplers that 171s now have?

When there's been threads about making Southern a fully electric franchise and converting the 171s back to 170s some people have claimed changing them back would be very expensive.

Does anyone know how much the cost of changing the couplers on the TPE 170s was? I know TPE paid a multi million pound figure for the 170 refresh, repaint and coupler changing but I don't know how the figure breaks down.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone know how much the cost of changing the couplers on the TPE 170s was? I know TPE paid a multi million pound figure for the 170 refresh, repaint and coupler changing but I don't know how the figure breaks down.

TPE's 170s came from SWT, and operated with BSI couplers already for compatibility with 159s - they shouldn't have needed changing, so are you sure about that? One of the SWT units (that was in SN internal colours anyway) went to SN as a 171, so it would have been converted, has that clouded the issue?

 

[lancastrian]

Everybody seems to want it and wants it completed by the time Crossrail is up and running.

http://www.bdpost.co.uk/news/chance...king_line_electrification_in_budget_1_1978187



You never know. THis time it may just well happen.

I hope so

Well it wasn't announced, unless it was mumbled in his speech, which 'sado' me listen to from start to finish in the hope of some announcement on more rail infrastructure or electrification would be made.

If this is going to happen soon, it is possible it might be announced in the June/July spending review (depending if the Government need a good news story then or not), or more likely, leading up to the election in 2015, to show how 'great' they are in infrastructure investment!!!!!!!!

If and/or whenever it gets announced, to my mind it has been a route that should have been electrified years ago.

 

[tbtc]

Well it wasn't announced, unless it was mumbled in his speech, which 'sado' me listen to from start to finish in the hope of some announcement on more rail infrastructure or electrification would be made.

If this is going to happen soon, it is possible it might be announced in the June/July spending review (depending if the Government need a good news story then or not), or more likely, leading up to the election in 2015, to show how 'great' they are in infrastructure investment!!!!!!!!

If and/or whenever it gets announced, to my mind it has been a route that should have been electrified years ago.

I guess there's the issue of whether the announcement would be made by MPs or by the London Mayor/ Assembly - I can imagine Boris Johnson being desperate for any bit of good news he can associate himself with (having seen him on breakfast telly this morning!).

(don't care who makes the announcement, of course, just suggesting that there's maybe a debate about who'd get the "glory" of making it)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If this is going to happen soon, it is possible it might be announced in the June/July spending review (depending if the Government need a good news story then or not), or more likely, leading up to the election in 2015, to show how 'great' they are in infrastructure investment!!!!!!!!

A cynic in the same mould as me....and one with an understanding of the shallowness of British politics...:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

TPE's 170s came from SWT, and operated with BSI couplers already for compatibility with 159s - they shouldn't have needed changing, so are you sure about that? One of the SWT units (that was in SN internal colours anyway) went to SN as a 171, so it would have been converted, has that clouded the issue?

I heard there was some compatibility issue where the 170s couldn't initially be joined up to 185s which TPE had to solve. As 170s attached to 185s would be in an emergency only I doubt it would have been an issue with the PIS in one train communicating with the other.

 

[ert47]

When there's been threads about making Southern a fully electric franchise and converting the 171s back to 170s some people have claimed changing them back would be very expensive.

Does anyone know how much the cost of changing the couplers on the TPE 170s was? I know TPE paid a multi million pound figure for the 170 refresh, repaint and coupler changing but I don't know how the figure breaks down.

I read somewhere in the forums that the issue with converting the 171s back to 170s has something to do with the internal wiring within the 4 car units. I have no idea if the problem also affects the 2 car units.

 

[jopsuk]

For real joy, the Budget slashed TfL's funding by 40%- 700 million- for the coming year.

 

[swt_passenger]

I heard there was some compatibility issue where the 170s couldn't initially be joined up to 185s which TPE had to solve. As 170s attached to 185s would be in an emergency only I doubt it would have been an issue with the PIS in one train communicating with the other.

Ah right. I didn't consider modification of the ancillary functions as being a 'change of coupler'. In the original context what you wrote seemed like a change of the basic design or type.

 

[Chris125]

If this is going to happen soon, it is possible it might be announced in the June/July spending review (depending if the Government need a good news story then or not), or more likely, leading up to the election in 2015, to show how 'great' they are in infrastructure investment!!!!!!!!

As i believe was mentioned earlier in the thread, TfL are targeting the Autumn Statement by which time NR should be able to give a more accurate cost estimate. Indeed it nearly featured in the last one.

Chris

 

[76020]

So here we go again, George Osborne has a spending review on 26th June, and will the GOBLIN electrification be on the list at last?
I think that Network Rail has already got its work cut out to deliver all the electrification announced for CP5 but it might sneak in here.
If the chancellor wants to spend money on infrastructure then how about finally announcing the Thameslink contract for the new trains to Bombardier and not Siemens and also give those nice people in Derby some more work by committing for new trains for the South Wales Valley Lines electrification.

 

[anthony263]

If they had a different seating layout a 3 carriage class 378 would be ideal for the Cardiff Valleys and with TFL ordering carriages to extend their class 378's it would an ideal time to put an order in especially as some lines in wales should be wired by 2017/2018

 

[swt_passenger]

If the chancellor wants to spend money on infrastructure then how about finally announcing the Thameslink contract for the new trains to Bombardier and not Siemens...

The contract was 'finally announced' as going to Siemens in 2011.
Everything else since has been fiddling with the details, the local media's obsession with this story has been highly misleading - the decision had been made 2 years ago...

 

[northwichcat]

So here we go again, George Osborne has a spending review on 26th June, and will the GOBLIN electrification be on the list at last?

Unless a business case for GOBLIN electrification must have been made and has a definite long term cost saving benefit must have been proven then it hasn't got a chance of being included.

Also what happens to the 172s needs to be considered before a new EMU order can be placed. The government isn't in a position to do like the previous government did when they committed to new Thameslink stock and then only later on considered what should happen to the old stock. There obviously are options but many of those will ideally need a toilet to be fitted - it would be a nightmare for LM or Chiltern to have specific diagrams for toilet-less 172s.

 

[anthony263]

London Overgrounds class 172's if they are fitted with toilets would help Chiltern provide extra capacity although I am sure London Midland would welcome them and hopefully Bombardier could fit them with new cabs to make them compatable with London Midlands existing class 172 fleet if it is decided to send them to London Midland.

I am sure Boris will be very pleased to get the Goblin wired since he has been calling for more investment in London and wiring the GOBLIN would be good for freight traffic

 

[Chrisgr31]

If this route was electrified couldn't one cascade these 8 units to Southern for use on the Marshlink. That would then free up the Class 171 units on the Marshlink to be moved to serve the Uckfield line with the added bonus that there would be no need to change the couplers!

Not sure how many Class 171s actually run on the Marshlink but think this would result in an increase in services on both routes.

As a commuter on the Uckfield Line I am obsviously don't have a vested interest in this suggestion!

 

[transmanche]

If the chancellor wants to spend money on infrastructure then how about finally announcing the Thameslink contract for the new trains to Bombardier and not Siemens

Too late. Just posted today:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/thameslink-deal-close-to-completion

The deal to build 1,140 new carriages for use on the Thameslink rail line came a step closer to completion today (14 June 2013) as the Department for Transport confirmed its decision to award the £1.6 billion contract to a consortium led by train manufacturer Siemens.

Before the contract award can take place there will now be a pause known as the Alcatel standstill period which will last at least 10 days.

So Bombardier only have 10 days to challenge the decision...

 

[swt_passenger]

But they won't, because they have no grounds on which to challenge.
They successfully offloaded the 'jobs issue' onto government policy (rather than the quality of their product) two years ago and have since moved on to another 'must win' with the Crossrail tender.

 

[transmanche]

But they won't, because they have no grounds on which to challenge.

Exactly! (But I noted it merely as that is what why the standstill period exists - to allow unsuccessful bidders to challenge the decision before the contract is signed.)

 

[76020]

Too late. Just posted today:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/thameslink-deal-close-to-completion

So Bombardier only have 10 days to challenge the decision...

They must have heard me!, lets hope they get the Class 345 Crossrail build

 

[jon0844]

They must have heard me!, lets hope they get the Class 345 Crossrail build

Yes, so we can have dodgy doors, panels that don't fit together properly and buttons that fall apart - then within a few weeks all of the trains being sent back to Derby for major modifications (this time with no old stock to keep a newly launched service running!).

Bombardier needs to quit moaning and drastically improve their quality control, for the sake of the people who will be using Crossrail.

 

[SF-02]

I hope it goes ahead. Looking increasingly difficult though as the Government are looking to cut transport spending by another 10% in 2015 its reported today, in order to hold spending on health and foreign aid, and lessen cuts to the military.

The Rail regulator has also told NR to cut spending by 2 billion over the next CP. However it looks today as though the govt wants to get involved in another war that's nothing to do with us and give weapons to Syrian rebels, that will in no way fall into the hands of Al Qaeda who are involved there.

It would be nice to have a government that invested more in domestic infrastructure and not getting involved in overseas wars and increasing the money given abroad in aid. A bit like Germany for example who cut their foreign aid budget this year to increase domestic spending. Anyway fingers crossed for this and the other projects now looking a little less likely.

 

[swt_passenger]

I hope it goes ahead. Looking increasingly difficult though as the Government are looking to cut transport spending by another 10% in 2015 its reported today, in order to hold spending on health and foreign aid, and lessen cuts to the military.

Are you referring to Crossrail?

It would very be odd if it didn't go ahead, what would they use the £billions worth of infrastructure for if it didn't?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Are you referring to Crossrail?

It would very be odd if it didn't go ahead, what would they use the £billions worth of infrastructure for if it didn't?

No chance- GOBLIN

 

[YorkshireBear]

They need to do it before crossrail or the cost spirals due to increased usage.

 

[Bald Rick]

They need to do it before crossrail or the cost spirals due to increased usage.

Urban myth spun by the user group and swallowed by far too many people who shoul know better. The increased usage comes from London Gateway, which opens rather sooner.