Good Service

[tbtc]

if you pay extra then you should get the benefits, simple

...likewise, if you don't pay you shouldn't travel.

TPE tend to declassify at the earliest opportunity, I feel sorry for the guard but maybe abit of security on certain TPE trains would help?

Agreed. The 185s really can't cope with transpennine loadings. I can understand why the Guards feel forced to declassify, but it means (potential) First Class passengers are going to be less likely to pay the premium for future journeys. They really need something longer.

 

[Old Timer]

Reading your post again old timer it is better in terms of weight distribution to have the standing passengers in first as there are less people in there in the first place. . .

Not necessarily because the braking system applied force is proportional through a weight sensing valve

Retardation is therefore equalised (and prevents the start of wheelslide) until the maximum weight is exceeded, when braking effectiveness is reduced.

As for standing, vehicle vistibules these days are the sacrificial area ijn the event of an impact and will deform to absord the kinetic energy. Not the place to be standing therefore in the event of an accident.

Passengers standing in the aisles are usually the first to be ejected through the window and if the windows do not break then the person hitting them will.

The Great Heck Inquiry report as well as the Ufton Nervett Report commenst on injuries caused by people standing being thrown about the interior.

My post was of course tongue firmly in cheek but seems to have caused bit of a reaction

Your statement about contacting XC was a tissue of lies in other words then, as I suspected ? Oh dear

In which case it shows a degree of contempt for the many posters on here, and will place doubt over the veracity of your future posts in the minds of many I am sure.

Little tip Old Chap, dont try to take the **** out of someone with senior contacts in the Industry - just in case they call your bluff

 

[Train Pilchard]

Like yours ?

You seem rather a selfish individual, with some traits many on here will find less than admirable, hopefully you are not representative of the younger generation.

As an old fogey, who does not understand such attitudes, maybe you would enlighten me with your views of what other "rules need to be broken" or are they not for sharing with the wider world ?

Rather like the name, though

I seem a rather selfish individual because I don't think someones family sitting in first class without the required ticket is a heinous crime?

Why do you think it is such a big deal? At worst the only victim in this crime is Virgin PLC who probably lost about 20p on a coffee. Of course morally it isn't whiter than white but it really is no big deal and in my opinion no reason for you, and others in this thread, to have a go at the OP.

Yeah, well - if you're on my railway and you can't get a seat (it's happened before) - I'll upgrade you, upgrade yourself and I'll have to think about whether you stay there

Common sense, I travel daily on Scotrail commuter trains (no first class), if I get to sit on 1 of my 10 journeys per week I'm lucky. Every second Saturday I follow my football team by train, if that involves going to, or going via, Edinburgh it's a bloody nightmare on the shuttles. Normally the conductor has no objection to me sitting in first class if all seats are taken and there are loads of people standing. If the conductor is visibile I will ask him if I can it there, if he is not I will sit there until told otherwise.

I really don't see the big problem with this. Maybe it's karma for never getting a seat in the mornings. I should add this happens maybe twice a year max.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I seem a rather selfish individual because I don't think someones family sitting in first class without the required ticket is a heinous crime?

Yes. It is a crime, and you will be depriving someone who has paid to sit in first class and take the benefits that come with it of them. It's tantamount to theft taking the complimentary drinks and other items without having a FC ticket.

Why do you think it is such a big deal? At worst the only victim in this crime is Virgin PLC who probably lost about 20p on a coffee. Of course morally it isn't whiter than white but it really is no big deal and in my opinion no reason for you, and others in this thread, to have a go at the OP.

The victims in this are Virgin PLC who are loosing the difference between the standard class ticket and the first class ticket, and any first class passenger who may not then get their complimentary items because these first class leeches have taken them all.

 

[Lampshade]

Why do you think it is such a big deal? At worst the only victim in this crime is Virgin PLC who probably lost about 20p on a coffee. Of course morally it isn't whiter than white but it really is no big deal and in my opinion no reason for you, and others in this thread, to have a go at the OP.

Well it could be argued it's tantamount to theft and deception, you haven't paid for the service yet you're claiming it anyway. It doesn't matter whether or not the service is tangible, it's a service nonetheless.

 

[Dennis]

Your statement about contacting XC was a tissue of lies in other words then, as I suspected ? Oh dear

It was indeed although a little thought did go into the choice of TOC. In my experience they are consistently worst for standees in vestibules clogged up with luggage. However, I'm 100% certain that a call to them, or any other TOC, would reassure me that my safety in such a situation is not being compromised; somewhat at odds with some posts within this thread and seemingly in accident reports. And yet, despite potential safety implications, new trains are being built which positively encourage standing. Should this be allowed?

Anyway, I'm sure I'd be laughed out of first class if I was to upgrade myself to a seat and therefore improve my safety.

 

[Lampshade]

And yet, despite potential safety implications, new trains are being built which positively encourage standing. Should this be allowed?

Indeed, if standing is that unsafe the 'safe' capacity of a 378 would be about 50

 

[Old Timer]

It was indeed although a little thought did go into the choice of TOC. In my experience they are consistently worst for standees in vestibules clogged up with luggage. However, I'm 100% certain that a call to them, or any other TOC, would reassure me that my safety in such a situation is not being compromised; somewhat at odds with some posts within this thread and seemingly in accident reports. And yet, despite potential safety implications, new trains are being built which positively encourage standing. Should this be allowed?

Anyway, I'm sure I'd be laughed out of first class if I was to upgrade myself to a seat and therefore improve my safety.

Your ticket entitles you only to a journey and indeed a journey that can be performed at any time and even by other means of transport.

If you wish a seat and the journey is important to you, then use the free reservations facility. If you choose to stand then that is a matter for yourself, however you should be aware of the implications of being unseated in the event of an accident.

I have waited at Euston several times in the past year when the train service has fallen apart, watched the first couple of trains out packed to the brim, and in some cases watching people being removed because of overcrowding/safety concerns.

I try to wait a couple of trains and then get one that is pretty much empty, and through which the on-board staff can walk with the refreshment trolley. By the way that also counts as delay towards a refund as well

 

[jon0844]

I think common sense tells you that standing in a crumple zone, or being thrown through a train at any solid objects (or glass) is not safe. However, there's an acceptance that the alternative is an airline approach with everyone seated and belted.

However, Old Timer has to be correct as the only time standing is deemed less dangerous is when a train is crush loaded as people don't get thrown all over the place - except the poor people who are then, literally, crushed under the force of so many people. As a result, you'd not want to be standing near the front of a train with loads of people behind you about to be jolted forwards.

Rail is, thankfully, safe and so the chances are pretty tiny compared to other forms of transport. However, I must admit that when I travel alone I do generally opt for an airline seat that faces away from the direction of travel. The risk to me is more from the seats in front giving way and coming back on me full force - but I can't eliminate all risk!

 

[Dennis]

I know this is drifting way off topic but....there does seem to be bit of an issue if TOCs are willing to grab my £s and then risk my wellbeing.

Given that I do not have an issue per se with standing myself (in fact there are some trains on which I prefer to stand), yet by doing so I am putting myself at greater risk of injury, is there not an argument that standees should be entitled to a discount? (Could introduce standing class, paying for an upgrade to sit ).

Also, if the risk is greater, how does carrying standees affect insurance premiums which presumably the TOCs pay? Or indeed payouts in the (unlikely) event of an accident.

 

[Striker]

(Could introduce standing class, paying for an upgrade to sit ).

No doubt Train Pilchard would sit without paying for the upgrade and Lawman would invite his whole family.

 

[Train Pilchard]

Yes. It is a crime, and you will be depriving someone who has paid to sit in first class and take the benefits that come with it of them. It's tantamount to theft taking the complimentary drinks and other items without having a FC ticket.


The victims in this are Virgin PLC who are loosing the difference between the standard class ticket and the first class ticket, and any first class passenger who may not then get their complimentary items because these first class leeches have taken them all.

According to the OP first class was not busy, nobody was deprived of anything because his family sat there.

Well it could be argued it's tantamount to theft and deception, you haven't paid for the service yet you're claiming it anyway. It doesn't matter whether or not the service is tangible, it's a service nonetheless.

What would you do in this scenario. You have Sky/Virgin TV, a basic package. Your favourite team is playing your favourite sport on Sky Sports/your favourite film is on the movie channel. For some unknown reason you are receiving the premium channel on that day, you have not paid for it. Do you watch?

 

[Ferret]

Why people think they are entitled to upgrade themselves to First Class is a bit of a mystery to me! On the other hand, if the train is full and somebody should happen to ask if they can use FC, you'll often find me amenable to the request.

Oddly enough, today I've just encountered somebody who thinks the law doesn't apply to him. He sat himself in First Class for a good hour, then refused to pay the upgrade and then failed to move having decided it was a health and saftey risk to walk to the next carriage on a moving train. To add to this, the cheeky bloke then took my name and photographed me on his phone! Considering many people manage to safely walk up a train to use the loo, visit a buffet or take a call outside a quiet carriage you can safely assume that I reckon he was taking the proverbial! I'll be reporting him under the TIR process in due course, though I'm looking forward to my mugshot appearing on Facebook or whatever in due course! The things we have to put up with eh......?

 

[jon0844]

the cheeky bloke then took my name and photographed me on his phone! <snip> ...though I'm looking forward to my mugshot appearing on Facebook or whatever in due course! The things we have to put up with eh......?

I am sure he wanted you to be upset by that and attempt to cover your face, grab the camera etc, but I hope you smiled and waved at him. I bet that would have upset him no end (as well as making it hard for him to then post on FB, or Tweet the photo, as you'd be looking like one of his mates!!).

At least that's what I'd do.

Mind you, now I think of it, why were you harassing him anyway. It's hardly the crime of the century.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What would you do in this scenario. You have Sky/Virgin TV, a basic package. Your favourite team is playing your favourite sport on Sky Sports/your favourite film is on the movie channel. For some unknown reason you are receiving the premium channel on that day, you have not paid for it. Do you watch?

That analogy is utterly irrelevant. It would be more accurate if you found a way to watch the premium channels illegally.

 

[jon0844]

What would you do in this scenario. You have Sky/Virgin TV, a basic package. Your favourite team is playing your favourite sport on Sky Sports/your favourite film is on the movie channel. For some unknown reason you are receiving the premium channel on that day, you have not paid for it. Do you watch?

How is this in any way a relevant comparison? If Sky or Virgin made a mistake then that's not your problem - unless you hacked the box/card (which is what the actual comparison would be).

Of course I'd watch, and then I'd call Sky or Virgin to ensure that I hadn't accidentally been upgraded to the premium package and would then receive a bill later on.

Mind you, I guess your next point would be - do you tell anyone? By checking that you're not going to be charged, you might then lose those channels. Why do I think I know the answer to that question already!!

 

[Old Timer]

....Mind you, now I think of it, why were you harassing him anyway. It's hardly the crime of the century.

After all it wasn't as if he hadn't brought half his family along now was it ?

Still as long a she wasn't taking the free refreshments ( ), and maybe he was only charging his mobile telephone, and we KNOW that this is something the should be available to Standard Class passengers as of right, especially when travelling LM, don't we

 

[Striker]

That analogy is utterly irrelevant. It would be more accurate if you found a way to watch the premium channels illegally.

I know. The fact that he even came up with this example just demonstrates the sheer lack of understanding from Train Pilchard.

 

[Ferret]

I am sure he wanted you to be upset by that and attempt to cover your face, grab the camera etc, but I hope you smiled and waved at him. I bet that would have upset him no end (as well as making it hard for him to then post on FB, or Tweet the photo, as you'd be looking like one of his mates!!).

At least that's what I'd do.

Mind you, now I think of it, why were you harassing him anyway. It's hardly the crime of the century.

I just laughed! Anyway 'harrassing him'? Are you serious?! Tbh, if he'd have just moved then I'd have been happy, it's just that he blatantly wanted a free upgrade to FC, when the other 15 people in the carriage had paid for upgrades. There were seats in Standard too! I'm quite amused by it all really, as well as bemused!

 

[jon0844]

Of course I wasn't serious, but at the same time - why give someone like that the opportunity to simply move (and do it again next time?) if they offered - unless it was a matter of minutes after he'd got on. Reporting him is definitely the right thing to do, even if some will call you a 'jobsworth'. No doubt those 15 who paid to upgrade, and any others who already had FC tickets, would be very happy with what you did.

 

[tbtc]

What would you do in this scenario. You have Sky/Virgin TV, a basic package. Your favourite team is playing your favourite sport on Sky Sports/your favourite film is on the movie channel. For some unknown reason you are receiving the premium channel on that day, you have not paid for it. Do you watch?

Only the other day I was on the Aberdeen - London HST. I'd only paid for a child single to Stonehaven, but for some unknown reason I found myself sitting in First Class all the way to London... :roll:

 

[Ferret]

Sorry Jon, it's hard to be sure whether somebody else is taking the mick when it's text written on a forum! I'm glad you were having a laugh about it anyway, I've just been telling a mate about it all and he's somewhat amused too!

I did see one or two FC customers sniggering in the background while all this was going on - made it worse because I was trying to keep a straight face! I mean, I've never heard anything as daft as saying he can't possibly move because of health and safety!!!

 

[Lampshade]

That analogy is utterly irrelevant. It would be more accurate if you found a way to watch the premium channels illegally.

Thank you for that, I was going mad trying to think of a good comeback

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I did see one or two FC customers sniggering in the background while all this was going on - made it worse because I was trying to keep a straight face! I mean, I've never heard anything as daft as saying he can't possibly move because of health and safety!!!

Don't know why you're laughing. It's a serious subject. In fact, I think all trains should be removed from service until this very dangerous habit of walking up and down a train is solved. The RSSB can pay a consultant thousands to work out a solution. Perhaps while the trains are OOS they can all be fitted with first class accommodation throughout so everyone can have it even with a standard ticket. After all, it doesn't hurt the company and it's not the crime of the century.

[/sarcasm]

 

[Ferret]

Ralph, as it's so dangerous, I think I'll stop this habit of walking up and down checking tickets just in case I should do myself a serious injury. I'm sure my Manager will understand why I haven't been taking any money in ticket sales and won't fire me because I'm lazy! Lol!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Ralph, as it's so dangerous, I think I'll stop this habit of walking up and down checking tickets just in case I should do myself a serious injury. I'm sure my Manager will understand why I haven't been taking any money in ticket sales and won't fire me because I'm lazy! Lol!

Certainly; I would hate to see a poor guard injured from that unsafe working practice!

 

[Anvil1984]

Damn right its unsafe,I need to contact my health and safety rep straight away, actually let's go the top does anyone have Bob Crows number

 

[Lampshade]

All seats are to be replaced with toilets, a toilet seat is a seat after all, we can't have all these people risking their lives walking to the loo.

 

[Ferret]

All seats are to be replaced with toilets, a toilet seat is a seat after all, we can't have all these people risking their lives walking to the loo.

I was just about to post that I was going to lock all toilets out of use while the train was in motion and use the PA to tell my passengers that they must remain seated at all times! Ooooh, it'd be like flying with the Captain turning on a seatbelt sign

 

[Failed Unit]

Old timer - post 121. Good reply. @&£&dy engineers think of everything . Luckily it is normally only after service disruptions that you have to stand on IC services unless you use xc. When you see on the side of the trains x tonnes evenly distributed you know you need some pretty heavy people to exceed it in normal days.

Looking at the posts it sums up a conversation I heard on Scotrail. A pregnant woman having a go at the gaurd while she was sat in first class. "I am pregnant and not standing". The gaurd would have not moved her if she had asked nicely and said so (he didn't move her) I commented she was a bit rude, she said to me she probably was but was sick of short formed trains. Poor gaurd gets it in the neck for Scotrails 170s not liking snow.