Good Service

[MCR247]

So conductors doing their job makes them miserable and unreasonable?

 

[Old Timer]

Get a life.

Like yours ?

You seem rather a selfish individual, with some traits many on here will find less than admirable, hopefully you are not representative of the younger generation.

As an old fogey, who does not understand such attitudes, maybe you would enlighten me with your views of what other "rules need to be broken" or are they not for sharing with the wider world ?

Rather like the name, though

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Can we lock this?

We're off topic, and threads like this are this forum's main problem.

 

[Old Timer]

Why ?

Because it is shining a light on some of the attitudes held about Railway travel, and in the case of another thread, the staff ?

 

[ChrisTheRef]

You seem rather a selfish individual, with some traits many on here will find less than admirable, hopefully you are not representative of the younger generation.

All you're doing is slagging each other off.

Childish and pathetic. SOMEONE LOCK THIS!

 

[Old Timer]

All you're doing is slagging each other off.

Childish and pathetic. SOMEONE LOCK THIS!

No I am genuinely interested to learn what makes this particular individual "tick", and why he feels that he can ignore Laws, Regulations and terms and conditions which do not suit him.

Calling for it to be locked simply becasue of how YOU feel, and indeed someone who has not contributed even, seems a rather arrogant act, do you not think the Moderators capable of judgement ?

 

[TomJ93]

So conductors doing their job makes them miserable and unreasonable?

Well when I was young enough to be on a child ticket I was always treated guilty until proved innocent.

Since when is not declassifying a 1st carriage when the train is absolutely packed doing your job?

Why are there some on this forum who thinks the railways are perfect? Am I not allowed to share the opinion that I have found conductor's in the past to be cynical and miserable, how does that instantly mean my accusations are due to them doing their job?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

No I am genuinely interested to learn what makes this particular individual "tick", and why he feels that he can ignore Laws, Regulations and terms and conditions which do not suit him.

Calling for it to be locked simply becasue of how YOU feel, and indeed someone who has not contributed even, do you not think the Moderators capable of judgement ?

aside from the bit I deleted in your second paragraph, I agree with full in this. We are trying to whittle down why this occurance took place, and asking questions thereof.

I do agree, the staff at this Forum know best, and it is at their discretion, and at their discretion only, what action takes place.

 

[Old Timer]

Well when I was young enough to be on a child ticket I was always treated guilty until proved innocent.

Since when is not declassifying a 1st carriage when the train is absolutely packed doing your job?

Why are there some on this forum who thinks the railways are perfect? Am I not allowed to share the opinion that I have found conductor's in the past to be cynical and miserable, how does that instantly mean my accusations are due to them doing their job?

Actually IF the Guard did his job CORRECTLY he would have the standing passengers removed. Standing on a train is actually dangerous, and interferes with the ability of the on board services staff to operate the catering trollies along the train.

On another point the vehicle brakes are designed to work within a specified weight range, as are the traction motors. An overloaded train is as I said a danger, especially when the weight overcomes the braking capability of the train. THAT is why there are overloading percentages, and indeed in the case of the Pendolinos, they have weight sensors which stop the train starting.

Passengers standing will generally be in Standard, and are probably on either Season or other forms of reduced ticket. Why should their needs be given precedence over those who have paid considerably more ?.

And as for being on a child ticket I am sure you know people who have pulled off this old trick. These days it is more and more difficult to tell with any form of accuracy the age of Children, and indeed the reason why there are so many items which now require age identification before they can be purchased.

At the end of the day it is the Guards duty when engaged on Revenue Protection duty to do just that protect revenue - from those who try to travel on a child ticket, to those who try to freeload in First, to those who try to travel without a ticket at all. And for their sins they are criticised and castigated.

The point is that it is all a matter of integrity, and whether a person has it or not.

 

[bengolding]

On East Midlands Trains, it seems to be part of the job of the First Class customer host to ask for First Class ticket, mark it with a squiggle and then offer complimentary drinks. This has happened to me on every First journey with EMT that I can recall, with the guard only doing upgrades or moving on to Standard. Contrast this to Virgin, who offer an enhanced complimentary service above EMT, but I have never seen First Class customer hosts check tickets before offering food or drink items. Such a contrast in revenue protection between two different TOCs, Virgin just don't seem to give a damn, particularly on corridors such as the West Midlands and Lancaster-Warrington.

 

[MCR247]

Why are there some on this forum who thinks the railways are perfect? Am I not allowed to share the opinion that I have found conductor's in the past to be cynical and miserable, how does that instantly mean my accusations are due to them doing their job?

Because that's what you just said above?

If the train isn't actually that 'crowded' and there is only one first class coach, IMO it would be a good idea not to de-classify first.

 

[tbtc]

Presumably I'd be okay to purchase a "Chid" ticket next time I travel anywhere, even though I am significantly older - if any Guard challenged me and tried to get me to pay the correct fare instead then I am within my rights to call him a "jobsworth" and say that "It's hardly the crime of the century"?

(going by other people's logic)

 

[TomJ93]

Because that's what you just said above?

If the train isn't actually that 'crowded' and there is only one first class coach, IMO it would be a good idea not to de-classify first.

Sorry I never said that? I am going on the fact that my local route uses 390s, they have 4.

 

[MCR247]

Ok sorry, I thought you meant something else on the sentence above, but either way, it still isn't your job to decide whether the coach should be declassified or not

 

[Striker]

All you're doing is slagging each other off.

Childish and pathetic. SOMEONE LOCK THIS!

If you don't like it then don't come onto this thread! Simple! :roll:

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The whole thread boils down to the fact that if you've paid for first class you should get what you've paid for. If you haven't, you shouldn't get what others pay more for. You can't buy a Vauxhall Corsa and expect a Bentley in the same way you can't buy a standard ticket and get first class.

 

[tbtc]

The whole thread boils down to the fact that if you've paid for first class you should get what you've paid for. If you haven't, you shouldn't get what others pay more for. You can't buy a Vauxhall Corsa and expect a Bentley in the same way you can't buy a standard ticket and get first class.

Precisely - well put.

 

[TomJ93]

The whole thread boils down to the fact that if you've paid for first class you should get what you've paid for. If you haven't, you shouldn't get what others pay more for. You can't buy a Vauxhall Corsa and expect a Bentley in the same way you can't buy a standard ticket and get first class.

I find now a days first class is becoming more service centric (i'm working with VT as my example.) 1st now is really much different from standard class, a little bit more room and a fancy light.

 

[Dennis]

..... Standing on a train is actually dangerous, and interferes with the ability of the on board services staff to operate the catering trollies along the train.....

Just checked with AXC about this and they implied you are talking ballcocks on this point.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Just checked with AXC about this and they implied you are talking ballcocks on this point.

You are saying that standing on a train isn't dangerous in an accident where people sitting would be restrained to an extent by their seats, while you would be thrown around like a rag doll?

And that people standing in the aisles doesn't affect the ability of staff to move a catering trolley down the aisles?

 

[Old Timer]

Just checked with AXC about this and they implied you are talking ballcocks on this point.

Really ?

Care to refer the person to read the associated risk asessments ?

And then maybe said person (Clerk presumably ?) can tell Virgin trains (who operate this Policy) that it is "bollocks".

By the way as I recall the Head of Safety at XC used to work with me some years back, I'll have a quiet word with them next week about this.

 

[Failed Unit]

Really ?

Care to refer the person to read the associated risk asessments ?

And then maybe said person (Clerk presumably ?) can tell Virgin trains (who operate this Policy) that it is "bollocks".

By the way as I recall the Head of Safety at XC used to work with me some years back, I'll have a quiet word with them next week about this.

Reading your post again old timer it is better in terms of weight distribution to have the standing passengers in first as there are less people in there in the first place. . You do make a very good point under BR I think the guideline was 135% on sliding door stock. On some northern routes, EMTs 153s and Scotrail recently I have seen 200% loadings. With most passengers glad to find somewhere to stand.

As for XC and standing passengers. Don't get us started, if the trolley can't get through then maybe they shouldn't have removed the shop.

I have seen on 153 operated services the driver try to remove people from his cab area so he could get out and speak to the signaller. He got out but because the train was so full people had to move into the toilet to make space to let him.

 

[Dennis]

My post was of course tongue firmly in cheek but seems to have caused bit of a reaction....if standing is dangerous, why is it permitted? With H&S (rightly in my view) taken very seriously by the industry, such hazardous activities by customers should surely not be permitted. Those unoccupied seats in first class could be used to enhance the safety of at risk standees.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Catering staff are entitled and encouraged to ask for tickets.. with a bit of common sense I used to be able to tell who was and who was not meant to be there to start with anyway...if the statement 'oh there are no seats so thought I would sit there' came forth I would offer to find a seat and help them move once I had done so

BTP are the worst for wanting upgrades (usually plain clothes) on the pretext of making it easier to work
If their work is that important, why are they not allowed to travel routinely in 1st anyway?

I had one want extra breakfast .. he never even told me the TM had said he could sit there to start with!!

 

[142094]

But should new build stock not feature them?

Perhaps, but depends on what route. Same goes for toilets - some inter-urban services with new stock do not have them, freeing up more space for seats.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

My post was of course tongue firmly in cheek but seems to have caused bit of a reaction....if standing is dangerous, why is it permitted? With H&S (rightly in my view) taken very seriously by the industry, such hazardous activities by customers should surely not be permitted. Those unoccupied seats in first class could be used to enhance the safety of at risk standees.

If standing is dangerous can guards get "danger" money as we spend most of our shift walking up n down trains and standing (admittedly after i've read the paper lol)

 

[tbtc]

I find now a days first class is becoming more service centric (i'm working with VT as my example.) 1st now is really much different from standard class, a little bit more room and a fancy light.

That may be. However, whether First Class means a free meal, wifi and plugs (with 2/1 seating) or just a little legroom, it still doesn't excuse people knowingly sitting in the wrong section of the train

 

[ANorthernGuard]

That may be. However, whether First Class means a free meal, wifi and plugs (with 2/1 seating) or just a little legroom, it still doesn't excuse people knowingly sitting in the wrong section of the train

if you pay extra then you should get the benefits, simple

TPE tend to declassify at the earliest opportunity, I feel sorry for the guard but maybe abit of security on certain TPE trains would help?

 

[TomJ93]

That may be. However, whether First Class means a free meal, wifi and plugs (with 2/1 seating) or just a little legroom, it still doesn't excuse people knowingly sitting in the wrong section of the train

I was using the example of declassification.

 

[Striker]

If standing is dangerous can guards get "danger" money as we spend most of our shift walking up n down trains and standing (admittedly after i've read the paper lol)

I thought most people just look at the pictures in The Sun.