Good old First Northampton

[markie73]

Driver of the 4 says it finishes today, 4A on September 14th.

Yep I had that answer as well I mentioned to the driver that on their website that the 4A is being withdrawn today his response was brilliant but I can't post it on here!! but it summed up exactly what they think of First...

 

[overthewater]

No2 sunday service:
http://www.stagecoachbus.com/PdfUploads/Timetable_42371_2 Northampton.pdf

No2 timetable from 15th September, every 15mins
http://www.stagecoachbus.com/PdfUploads/Timetable_42372_2 Northampton.pdf

No15 Sunday:
http://www.stagecoachbus.com/PdfUploads/Timetable_42373_15 Northampton.pdf

No15, from 1st September: its a cut to every 20mins.
http://www.stagecoachbus.com/PdfUploads/Timetable_42374_15 Northampton.pdf

 

[MK Tom]

I believe the First 2 runs at more than every 15 minutes? You'll note Stagecoach have cut the frequencies on pretty much every route they've taken over from First. It begs the question if the ''loss-making'' First operation was so because they ran the routes too frequently for the passenger demand.

On another note, First had put no signage up at Greyfriars today (old signs from June saying the 2, 4/4A will continue were still up) and none on the buses or stops on the 4 had any info either. Most passengers were unaware of the impending withdrawal. There will be a lot of royally fobbed off passengers come Monday.

 

[markie73]

I believe the First 2 runs at more than every 15 minutes? You'll note Stagecoach have cut the frequencies on pretty much every route they've taken over from First. It begs the question if the ''loss-making'' First operation was so because they ran the routes too frequently for the passenger demand.

On another note, First had put no signage up at Greyfriars today (old signs from June saying the 2, 4/4A will continue were still up) and none on the buses or stops on the 4 had any info either. Most passengers were unaware of the impending withdrawal. There will be a lot of royally fobbed off passengers come Monday.

The 16/17 timetable frequency is still every 10 minutes from the Bus Station to Sunnyside but I wonder how much longer that will last as you often see 2 - 3 16/17's running behind each other going back to town from Kingsthorpe, I wonder if Stagecoach will divert either the 16 or 17 to serve Eastern Avenue/Kingsland Avenue now that the First service 4 is no more and give Uno a run for their money?.

Its a very poor show how First are conducting themselves with the shambles that the service 4 is ending and also the fact that they have not informed customers that there will be no Sunday service on the 2 and 4A, there will be some very confused passengers waiting for the 4A and 2 tomorrow only to see Stagecoach roll up with their service 2 and also the 15!.

 

[MK Tom]

I love how even though they've now taken the 4 timetable down, this is still there: http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=12381&conf=0

 

[overthewater]

The 16/17 is 3 hour round trip? its far to long. I still wonder when if Ecton Brook will gain a fast bus to the town centre? I can see the No2 service gain alot of new customers...

 

[markie73]

The 16/17 is 3 hour round trip? its far to long. I still wonder when if Ecton Brook will gain a fast bus to the town centre? I can see the No2 service gain alot of new customers...

The average journey time from Sunnyside to the Bus Station on the 16/17 is approx 10 - 15 mins then another 20 - 25 mins from the Bus Station to Ecton Brook, all depends on the time of day and also traffic.

It's no where near a 3 hour round trip trust me!.

 

[MK Tom]

First have corrected the announcement on their website... two days after the service was withdrawn. But it still says 'Acre Lane'.

From Twitter:

FirstNorthampton ‏@FirstNthampton 44m
Apologies for the confusion - Service 4 has been withdrawn and Service 4A will continue to operate. Sorry for the inconvenience caused

No mention anywhere of the loss of Sunday services on the 2 or 4A, or of what other services to use instead. Nor do they mention that the 4A 'continues to operate' for just over a month and that's it. Obviously that would require a second tweet, but there's nothing on these things on Facebook or the website either.

 

[markie73]

First have corrected the announcement on their website... two days after the service was withdrawn. But it still says 'Acre Lane'.

From Twitter:

FirstNorthampton ‏@FirstNthampton 44m
Apologies for the confusion - Service 4 has been withdrawn and Service 4A will continue to operate. Sorry for the inconvenience caused

No mention anywhere of the loss of Sunday services on the 2 or 4A, or of what other services to use instead. Nor do they mention that the 4A 'continues to operate' for just over a month and that's it. Obviously that would require a second tweet, but there's nothing on these things on Facebook or the website either.

Looks like they have sorted it now, but what a mess though!.

 

[MK Tom]

Well, they've cracked the idea of advanced notice...

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=12531&conf=0

 

[markie73]

Well, they've cracked the idea of advanced notice...

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/northampton/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=12531&conf=0

And there is now a handwritten poster on Bay B which the service 4 used to use advising customers to use the Stagecoach 16/17, even the bay information has been removed.

Looks like they want to leave the town without fuss, in less then a months time they can do that - a very sad way to end.

 

[Volvodart]

Final chapter for First Northampton:-

PF0007045/81 - NORTHAMPTON TRANSPORT LTD, THE BUS DEPOT, ST. JAMES ROAD, NORTHAMPTON, NN5 5JD

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Luton, Parkway Station and Luton Airport, Terminal Building given service number 888 effective from 20-Oct-2013.

PF0000599/277 - FIRST ESSEX BUSES LTD, BUS DEPOT, WESTWAY, CHELMSFORD, CM1 3AR

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Luton Parkway Station
Finish Point: Luton Airport
Via:
Service Number: 888
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 20-OCT-2013
Other Details: Daily, frequent service

 

[MK Tom]

Surprised it's taken this long for that to happen. So technically the Luton route will still be operated out of Northampton up to 35 days after Northampton closes.

On a more positive note, the L-reg Lance has been preserved.

 

[overthewater]

Surprised it's taken this long for that to happen. So technically the Luton route will still be operated out of Northampton up to 35 days after Northampton closes.

On a more positive note, the L-reg Lance has been preserved.

Do you have a pic of said bus?

 

[MK Tom]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93805719@N08/9415703140/

 

[Volvodart]

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/business/business-news/shoe-boss-multi-million-pound-deal-will-secure-firm-s-future-in-northampton-1-5455769

Shoe boss: Multi-million pound deal will secure firm’s future in Northampton
Church's shoe factory Chief Executive Stephen Etheridge, stands outside the recently purchased Transport Offices on St James Road, Northampton.

by Ian Gallagher
ian.gallagher@northantsnews.co.uk

Published on the04 September
2013
21:34

A multi-million pound deal for iconic shoemaker Church’s to buy the old First Bus depot in St James will secure its future in the town for a generation.

The deal announced yesterday will see the company create up to 150 jobs at the site in St James Road, which First Bus is vacating after deciding to pull out of Northampton.

Church’s chief executive, Stephen Etheridge, said the firm had been looking into expanding for a while and would probably have had to leave Northampton had the bus station site not become available.

He said: “This is a multi-million pound project over the next three years which secures Church’s manufacturing operation in Northampton for the next generation.

“It’s good for the town and good for us. It really shows Northampton is open for business.

“We have been on this site in St James for 60 years now, and one of the things we have been looking at is building a new factory.

“Most of our employees live in St James and there is no opportunity to expand within our current vicinity. We fully occupy the site.

“So, without the bus station site, any development we were going to do would have had to be somewhere other than St James. In reality, we would probably have had to go out of town. So this secures us in St James, and we can grow and develop. It’s perfect for us.

“To keep jobs in Northampton and to grow in Northampton was the primary objective.

“Working with the council has helped us get the deal over the line. They’ve given us the tools and it’s a win-win for everyone.”

Northampton Borough Council brokered the deal, which also includes land owned by the Homes and Communities Agency. To do this, it will purchase the land from First and sell it straight to Church’s. The council says this should be cost-neutral.

The deal will be discussed by Guildhall officials next Wednesday. Once it is rubber-stamped, Church’s plans to move in on a phased basis. They want to be on site by the middle of next year, and complete development work in two to three years.

 

[overthewater]

That annoying when people say Bus depot/station Station/depot.

Good news all around with even more jobs then what first is leaving behide.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
##########################################

This is the last call, as from this time next week it will be no more. Anyone got any found memory's of the company over the past 100 years?

 

[MK Tom]

That annoying when people say Bus depot/station Station/depot.

Good news all around with even more jobs then what first is leaving behide.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
##########################################

This is the last call, as from this time next week it will be no more. Anyone got any found memory's of the company over the past 100 years?

Well I'm sure we'll keep the thread going a little longer, especially as the depot stays open until October 22nd!

My only thoughts on First are how did they turn something so successful into such a failure?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well I'm sure we'll keep the thread going a little longer, especially as the depot stays open until October 22nd!

My only thoughts on First are how did they turn something so successful into such a failure?

I think you have to look at it in TWO ways. First cocking it up (and that's a major one in itself) but also the very effective way that Stagecoach have choked the life out of them.

Also, I doubt if the depot will be open until the 22nd October. Are you thinking that because of Luton rail link and the change of O license?

 

[MK Tom]

I think you have to look at it in TWO ways. First cocking it up (and that's a major one in itself) but also the very effective way that Stagecoach have choked the life out of them.

Also, I doubt if the depot will be open until the 22nd October. Are you thinking that because of Luton rail link and the change of O license?

Yeah and someone I know was told as such by a staff member. There's also the added point of it currently being in use as a storage site for withdrawn vehicles from all over.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yeah and someone I know was told as such by a staff member. There's also the added point of it currently being in use as a storage site for withdrawn vehicles from all over.

There might be a bit of component recovery but now they've sold the site, I guess that the Carlton wreckers might be making some visits down there.

 

[markie73]

I think you have to look at it in TWO ways. First cocking it up (and that's a major one in itself) but also the very effective way that Stagecoach have choked the life out of them.

Is it just me or does anybody think that the speed in which Stagecoach have scooped up the routes recently cancelled by First is a bit too much of a coincidence?.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is it just me or does anybody think that the speed in which Stagecoach have scooped up the routes recently cancelled by First is a bit too much of a coincidence?.

I don't think it's so much a coincidence. Clearly, they knew that they wouldn't really be able to sell to Stagecoach (CC intervention) and given Stagecoach's strength in the town, no-one else would buy. Hence, they had to pack up and Stagecoach would rush to fill the vacuum, as they have done on every other route that they pulled out of (5, 22 etc).

The withdrawal of the X80/81 in Devon looks more suspicious though, looking at things more widely, it might just be that Stagecoach have given a commitment NOT to attack First on any other front (93s). That means First can concentrate time and resources on PCB?

 

[overthewater]

I don't think it's so much a coincidence. Clearly, they knew that they wouldn't really be able to sell to Stagecoach (CC intervention) and given Stagecoach's strength in the town, no-one else would buy. Hence, they had to pack up and Stagecoach would rush to fill the vacuum, as they have done on every other route that they pulled out of (5, 22 etc).

The withdrawal of the X80/81 in Devon looks more suspicious though, looking at things more widely, it might just be that Stagecoach have given a commitment NOT to attack First on any other front (93s). That means First can concentrate time and resources on PCB?

I've got to agree it does look very suspicious, what is going on. I have to ask is there any way stagecoach could be paying First group some money via the backdoor for gaining some of the routes?

 

[Volvodart]

I've got to agree it does look very suspicious, what is going on. I have to ask is there any way stagecoach could be paying First group some money via the backdoor for gaining some of the routes?

Probably more like easing off competition elsewhere.

 

[starrymarkb]

I don't think it's so much a coincidence. Clearly, they knew that they wouldn't really be able to sell to Stagecoach (CC intervention) and given Stagecoach's strength in the town, no-one else would buy. Hence, they had to pack up and Stagecoach would rush to fill the vacuum, as they have done on every other route that they pulled out of (5, 22 etc).

The withdrawal of the X80/81 in Devon looks more suspicious though, looking at things more widely, it might just be that Stagecoach have given a commitment NOT to attack First on any other front (93s). That means First can concentrate time and resources on PCB?

Disregard... I'm muddled with the Plymouth Thread

 

[Surreyman]

I've got to agree it does look very suspicious, what is going on. I have to ask is there any way stagecoach could be paying First group some money via the backdoor for gaining some of the routes?

I think both Stagecoach & First would be very careful not to do anything that could in anyway be interpreted as 'anti-competitive' or in anyway hinting at some kind of 'Cartel' type agreement.
However you do have to wonder if there wasn't a nod and a wink in the back room of a pub?
I can't see there would be anyway that Stagecoach would 'pay' First.

 

[overthewater]

I think both Stagecoach & First would be very careful not to do anything that could in anyway be interpreted as 'anti-competitive' or in anyway hinting at some kind of 'Cartel' type agreement.
However you do have to wonder if there wasn't a nod and a wink in the back room of a pub?
I can't see there would be anyway that Stagecoach would 'pay' First.

Its not really anti-competitive, in the grand scheme of things. Don't kid yourself, the two companies could come up with something, especial if stuff like this happens http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23961470

 

[A0]

Well I'm sure we'll keep the thread going a little longer, especially as the depot stays open until October 22nd!

My only thoughts on First are how did they turn something so successful into such a failure?

Debateable that it was 'something so successful' - for most of its life Northampton Transport led a very sheltered existence. It was owned by Northampton Council, therefore even if it did make a loss that would never have become public knowledge. Until the mid-80s it was operating in a highly regulated market, which shielded it from competition.

Any idiot can run a business in a situation where you don't have to make a profit and your competitors are prevented from competing with you by statute.

I suspect that the problem First had was that it probably wasn't that profitable and had high overheads with few of the 'economies of scale' that larger operators enjoy. Yes they tried to share with Leicester, but Leicester is a good 30 miles away and that limited any benefits. Compare that with Arriva's takeover of MK Metro where they had operations in a couple of neighbouring towns and routes running into / out of MK (Aylesbury, Dunstable, Luton).

Stagecoach on the other had had neighbouring operations and Northampton was part of the much bigger operation that had been United Counties.

Very few ex-council operations have survived when they've had to compete on a 'level playing field' rather than being shielded by being underwritten by the local council tax payers.

 

[MK Tom]

Yeah that's a fair point actually. I've been told it was Britain's most profitable municipal operation and things to that effect, but as you say, that needs to be seen in the context of council-run localised operations with little competition. I'm told there was a time when United Counties weren't allowed to drop off within town on their way out (or vice versa).

Nevertheless I don't know why First didn't try competing on a few long-distance corridors, like Leicester, or Wellingborough when they had some routes there. Or adding a coach element, like maybe an airport link, to make the operation more profitable and attract more custom. Were the roles reversed, these strike me as the sort of things Stagecoach would've tried. But still, the original mistake was selling NT, as many at the time seemed to know.