Good old First Northampton

[overthewater]

Are there any other possibilities?

Uno could start a no2 but there know stagecoach are planning to start a service.

 

[MK Tom]

Yeah that's registered for the 30th though?

 

[overthewater]

Yeah that's registered for the 30th though?

Then the council, stagecoach will discuses and just move it forward by two weeks

 

[MK Tom]

Can you start a service prior to the registration date? I mean you can if you don't charge for it, but otherwise wouldn't VOSA have an issue with that?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Can you start a service prior to the registration date? I mean you can if you don't charge for it, but otherwise wouldn't VOSA have an issue with that?

You can apply to VOSA if there are mitigating circumstances, such as if it might leave areas without a bus service and there would be significant impact on passengers. As most of the areas are already served, I'd suggest that is unlikely to happen. It has to significant detrimental impact - just because a particular road ISN'T served can't be used as a justification.

Stagecoach can, of course, run for free as you say.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Then the council, stagecoach will discuses and just move it forward by two weeks

Sorry, but that's rubbish. It has nothing to do with the council and they can't just "move it forward" - that's not what the 1985 Transport Act says.

 

[overthewater]

Can you start a service prior to the registration date? I mean you can if you don't charge for it, but otherwise wouldn't VOSA have an issue with that?

You can if the council agree and or it resolve an issues like maintaining a service with a gap for the public.

Other cap for Stagecoach is its start date is well over min registration period.

 

[MK Tom]

Would that require an amendment or re-registration with VOSA?

I'm guessing the other possibility is the council chuck up a two-week contract to Country Lion or something. To be honest I'm really suprised Stagecoach are taking over the 2. It's duplicated by their other routes on virtually all the mileage and its passengers have already deserted it for the 21, 1, 7, 8 and 10.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would that require an amendment or re-registration with VOSA?

I'm guessing the other possibility is the council chuck up a two-week contract to Country Lion or something. To be honest I'm really suprised Stagecoach are taking over the 2. It's duplicated by their other routes on virtually all the mileage and its passengers have already deserted it for the 21, 1, 7, 8 and 10.

Vehicle registrations are dealt with by VOSA. Councils have nothing to do with it. The 42 day rule is there for a reason, though ironically, it was so that councils could co-ordinate supported services and timetable information without immediate chopping and changing. Nicholas Ridley (Transport Minister responsible for deregulation) originally foresaw no registration period.

Exceptions are granted if there is an unforeseen event that could lead to serious impact on the general public. This is usually businesses going under. For instance, Stagecoach were granted an emergency provision to operate Geoff Amos's Rugby to Banbury service. However, they had to run to the original registration initially.

Another incident was the famous Darlington bus war where Stagecoach registered but then introduced free buses. Darlington Transport folded after 4 days and Stagecoach then successfully argued that they take up the services early as it was detrimental to United (the other competitor) and distorted the market!!

Other events might be in case of act of god (e.g. landslip closes road). However, a business withdrawing a commercial service and another seeking to start one are not exceptional circumstances, especially given that the areas concerned are already largely well served. Therefore, it's unlikely (though not impossible) that they'd be able to start early.

 

[overthewater]

Sorry, but that's rubbish. It has nothing to do with the council and they can't just "move it forward" - that's not what the 1985 Transport Act says.

The Council does have a say, not a big say but it can help speed up any process. I've seen it a few times, a council even refused to help early changed date to resolve one matter because it might have other affects.

Just watch Stagecoach will start no2 on 15th September.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Council does have a say, not a big say but it can help speed up any process. I've seen it a few times, a council even refused to help early changed date to resolve one matter because it might have other affects.

Just watch Stagecoach will start no2 on 15th September.

The council can make representations etc. In the event of a company going bust (e.g. Munros), then they have to be fleet of foot to get emergency tenders to ensure continuity of services where significant hardship would result. However, they don't have any power to bring forward or indeed stop a registration - that is VOSA's responsibility.

 

[overthewater]

The council can make representations etc. In the event of a company going bust (e.g. Munros), then they have to be fleet of foot to get emergency tenders to ensure continuity of services where significant hardship would result. However, they don't have any power to bring forward or indeed stop a registration - that is VOSA's responsibility.

Very true, but the Council can support the bus company, ie lobbying vosa.. most of the time it works. Council will say Stagecoach are planning to fill a gap etc but firest pulled out early.

It not often vosa says no, for sensible motions.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Very true, but the Council can support the bus company, ie lobbying vosa.. most of the time it works. Council will say Stagecoach are planning to fill a gap etc but firest pulled out early.

It not often vosa says no, for sensible motions.

To be fair, most of the time that councils do this, it is for emergency reasons not a commercial service being withdrawn and another being introduced.

The reason VOSA doesn't often say no is because people know the rules regarding notice periods. VOSA aren't minded to accept this because of the 42 day rule and potential abuse. Also, this is a rare situation as most often, and this is the case here, operators divulge that services are being pulled in advance of the registration. This allows replacement services to be registered in the requisite timeframe.

For emergency registrations, where councils get involved, the VOSA are usually minded to do so. However, this isn't an emergency situation, and relatively few people will be affected. We shall see

 

[Volvodart]

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/bus-firm-pulls-services-out-of-northampton-1-5318322

Bus firm pulls services out of Northampton

Published on the25 July
2013
08:14

The First bus company is in talks to withdraw all its services from Northampton.


The firm says it is still officially consulting with unions over closing the First Northampton depot in St James Road, St James, and cutting its two remaining bus routes, the 2 and 4, serving Rectory Farm and Obelisk Rise.

Staff who contacted the Chron said drivers were told last week they would be made redundant on August 8.

A First spokeswoman said the Northampton operation had been struggling financially for a number of reasons.

She said: “First’s Northampton depot has been a concern for a number of years, and the company is now faced with extra cost pressures due to the economic climate, high fuel prices and cuts in external funding.”

First said it had explored alternatives to closure, including selling its operations and transferring employees to other operators but said that “unfortunately these were unsuccessful”.

First Northampton employs 45 people,some of whom may be transferred to other First depots, and runs 17 buses. As well as the two public routes – reduced from seven in May – it also runs two school contracts, which have terminated this week with the end of academic year.

Nigel Barrett, regional managing director, said he was “confident” another operator would step in to take over all the services First currently runs.

He said: “I’m truly sorry that we are having to consider withdrawing services in Northampton and the possibility of redundancies as well as the closure of the depot. However, we have been running these services in Northampton at a loss for some time.”

A spokeswoman for Northamptonshire County Council said the 4 route would be covered by the Stagecoach service no 15 from September 2, meaning a fortnight’s overlap.

And the 2 route would be covered by Stagecoach’s own number 2 service. However for the first two weeks the section from Lumbertubs to the end of Billing Brook Road would not be covered.


The bus depot could become a key gateway to the Enterprise Zone.

It is the only Enterprise Zone plot in St James Road, St James, and a new development could link this major thoroughfare to parts of the zone behind Franklin’s Gardens.

The site itself will no doubt be an attractive proposition to potential buyers.

It is within Northampton’s Enterprise Zone, which means it will benefit from simpler planning rules and tax breaks.

It is also a sizeable area of land (12,700 sq metres) and very near Northampton train station, making it handy for potential businesses to attract commuters.

The whole site is available freehold and commercial agent Rapleys says there is potential for retail, residential or mixed use, subject to planning consent.

 

[overthewater]

PF0007045/27 - NORTHAMPTON TRANSPORT LTD, THE BUS DEPOT, ST. JAMES ROAD, NORTHAMPTON, NN5 5JD
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Northampton and Blackthorn given service number 2 effective from 15-Sep-2013.

PF0007045/69 - NORTHAMPTON TRANSPORT LTD, THE BUS DEPOT, ST. JAMES ROAD, NORTHAMPTON, NN5 5JD
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between NORTHAMPTON BUS STATION and NORTHAMPTON, ACRE LANE given service number 4A effective from 15-Sep-2013.

PF0007048/7 - COUNTRY LION (NORTHAMPTON) LTD, OXWICH CLOSE, BRACKMILLS INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 7BH
Variation Accepted: Operating between NORTHAMPTON and NORTHAMPTON given service number 6 effective from 16-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.

 

[MK Tom]

What's the 6 got to do with it?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What's the 6 got to do with it?

I was thinking that. Looks like the first journey is being withdrawn - can't see any other changes that would reflect other service developments

 

[overthewater]

PF0007071/345 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH MIDLANDS, UNIT 7/8, MAIN ROAD, FAR COTTON, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8ES
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Northampton Bus Station
Finish Point: Acre Lane
Via:
Service Number: 15
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 11-AUG-2013
Other Details: To operate a half hourly Sunday service from Acre Lane - Town Centre

 

[MK Tom]

Wait what? I thought their 2 registration from the same day covered that section.

 

[overthewater]

I get the feeling its getting split up so another change can take place from September... that just a guess
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PF0007071/342 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH MIDLANDS, UNIT 7/8, MAIN ROAD, FAR COTTON, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8ES
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Northampton Bus Station and Rectory Farm given service number 2 effective from 11-Aug-2013. To amend Timetable.

 

[MK Tom]

Aah makes sense.

By the way, note the First Northampton site still makes no mention of next week's cancellation of the 4.

 

[markie73]

Aah makes sense.

By the way, note the First Northampton site still makes no mention of next week's cancellation of the 4.

First only put information on their website a few days before the 28/29 and 30 got cancelled so don't hold your breath!

 

[MK Tom]

There was a notice on there about all those ones for a couple of weeks... And one in Greyfriars for ages before, is there anything there yet?

 

[markie73]

There was a notice on there about all those ones for a couple of weeks... And one in Greyfriars for ages before, is there anything there yet?

Not as far as I know, but I will have a look for you tomorrow when I'm in town.
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There was a notice on there about all those ones for a couple of weeks... And one in Greyfriars for ages before, is there anything there yet?

Had a look for you earlier, nothing posted in the bus station regarding the cancellation of the 4 and the cancellation of the Sunday services on the 2 and 4A in fact First still have the old cancellation notices for the 12,28,29 and 30 still advertised in the bus station!, just shows how much they care!.

Stagecoach have now also put up their branded bus stop signs along the 16 and 17 route in Kingsthorpe so it looks like they are staying.

 

[overthewater]

Any news yet, about stagecoach starting two weeks earlier on the no2?

 

[cainebj]

Any news yet, about stagecoach starting two weeks earlier on the no2?

I get the feeling its getting split up so another change can take place from September... that just a guess
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
PF0007071/342 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH MIDLANDS, UNIT 7/8, MAIN ROAD, FAR COTTON, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8ES
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Northampton Bus Station and Rectory Farm given service number 2 effective from 11-Aug-2013. To amend Timetable.

That registration was the Sunday only one, ammended (I believe) on a short notice to operate 7 days per week.

 

[overthewater]

So there have two registrations for service No2

PF0007071/343 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH MIDLANDS, UNIT 7/8, MAIN ROAD, FAR COTTON, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8ES
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Northampton Bus Station and Rectory Farm given service number 2 effective from 16-Sep-2013. To amend Timetable.

I did Stay Stagecoach would get the short notice to operate two weeks earlier .

 

[MK Tom]

Yep. Well done!

Does anyone have any news as to which of the Citybuses are still in service? WSU481 has been seen around, but I've not heard anything on the other two.

Still no information on the First website or at Greyfriars on this Saturday's termination of the 4.

 

[markie73]

Yep. Well done!

Does anyone have any news as to which of the Citybuses are still in service? WSU481 has been seen around, but I've not heard anything on the other two.

Still no information on the First website or at Greyfriars on this Saturday's termination of the 4.

121 is still around as well, I spotted it parked up in the Bus Station last weekend.

 

[A0]

I assume Stagecoach will be 'sourcing' some additional vehicles from elsewhere in their empire to cover these registrations - they surely won't have the full number of vehicles doing nothing at the moment?

 

[MK Tom]

I don't know, there's always a fair bit sitting at the depot when I go past on the train. Expect to see more Olympians out though, as has happened already.

New route map for this month: http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/en/councilservices/Transport/pubtrans/Documents/PDF%20Documents/Northampton_Aug2013.pdf