Good old First Northampton

[markie73]

Stagecoach will not have a monoploy since Uno bus will compete of some corridors while Meridian buses, will kept them on there toes aswell. I get the feeling Uno will start one more route in the town.

Well Stagecoach have expanded massively in the town with their new services to take over from/compete with First, I share your views when it comes to Unobus maybe they will start a few new services in due course?.

 

[overthewater]

Well Stagecoach have expanded massively in the town with their new services to take over from/compete with First, I share your views when it comes to Unobus maybe they will start a few new services in due course?.

especial if there were to link up to the uno.

 

[Wolvercoter]

Thanks Wolvercoter!

While we wait for that, here's the January 2010 service booklet. Did they ever produce a booklet like this again? I have all the leaflets from the 2/4/4A/12/23/28/29/30 period, but I'm not aware of a booklet from that time. Also, have they done new leaflets for the current service? There were none there when I was at Greyfriars on Saturday.

Here's the map from 30th November 2008, with routes 8 and 22.

Sorry the scan isn't brilliant.

 

[Wolvercoter]

There was big fold out leaflet from November 2007, with all the timetables and a proper route map Not like the overground. That had the short lived No10 which was replaced by the 4a.

I have four versions of the big fold out map, dated July 2005, November 2005, May 2007 and November 2007.

Attached is the July 2005 version. Sorry for the poor quality but I had to reduce the picture size because of the memory limit for uploading.

 

[MK Tom]

Wow, even then it still wasn't much of a network when compared with today's Stagecoach network. Loving the 50P!! That must have been the least profitable service ever.

As for Uno, they will expand further, but the way Uncle Brian extended the 8 to compete with the 21 has me worried. Stagecoach are the single hardest operator to compete against when they get down to it.

 

[Wolvercoter]

Loving the 50P!! That must have been the least profitable service ever.

It ran at 'frequent intervals' (every 10 mins or better I believe). It was timetabled for 24 minutes from Weston Favell to Rectory Farm/Blackthorn and back so must have needed three vehicles. 50p flat fare adult, 33p child.

 

[34D]

Regarding uno, do they have a base locally? I'm assuming that vehicles don't come from their main depot in Hatfield/Welwyn/wherever each day?

 

[MK Tom]

They have an office and some parking space at the University of Northampton's Park Campus. A service team travels up every night to clean and fuel the vehicles. If you follow the link in my signature there's a picture of five Uno buses parked there about ten or so down.

 

[causton]

They have an office and some parking space at the University of Northampton's Park Campus. A service team travels up every night to clean and fuel the vehicles. If you follow the link in my signature there's a picture of five Uno buses parked there about ten or so down.

Interesting! I live in Hatfield and I didn't even know that!

(Incidentally I did go up to Northampton for a day to see them, and yes the drivers did accept my Hertfordshire Uno day ticket, not noticing it wasn't the same ticket until I got off the bus and told them )

 

[overthewater]

Have stagecoach moved depot in Northampton?

 

[MK Tom]

Officially that ticket is valid "on the entire Uno network"!!

Stagecoach relocated about 400 yards down the road to a much bigger site.

 

[mbonwick]

Yes, they've moved from the small depot on Rothersthorpe Ave (NN4 8UT), to a much bigger site on Main Rd (NN4 8ES). This is so vehicles don't need to stable in Greyfriars bus stn overnight, so it can be demolished.

 

[causton]

Officially that ticket is valid "on the entire Uno network"!!

Except the 700 and 712/714

 

[overthewater]

Is there any picks of the new depot? I never know there moved.

 

[MK Tom]

One here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8706605321/ - Rick2E has several more but the best ones are quite far into his stream, page 7 at least. Also you can clearly see it from the train, just as you come over the river heading south out of Northampton, it's on the left, next to where the Blisworth line used to go under.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is there any picks of the new depot? I never know there moved.

Been there a couple of months. It's a former light engineering place. Mainly open parking but with some workshops. If you travel down from the former depot on Rothersthorpe Ave (on your left), go down the hill and round the corner and it's on your left. They've also purchased/leased a nearby office building for admin/staff welfare.

The old engineering depot is up for sale. The parking facilities in Greyfriars have been vacated in readiness for demolition of the bus station and the new site on top of the old Fishmarket. Note: Stagecoach got a fair wedge to get them to move sites!!!

This is fairly well known so I had to laugh when people were saying Stagecoach would buy out First Northampton in order to get the St James depot when they had already purchased the new site and were getting the relevant planning consents

 

[moogal]

I'd moved out by the time the 50P came along, but it reminds me a bit of United Counties' short-lived 80 service that did a loop round the Eastern Districts and ran to Weston Favell.

Back when I lived there, the 1 was run jointly, with 2 buses an hour from United Counties and 1 an hour from NT, giving a 20 minute service, which meshed in with the United Counties 51 running almost exactly the same route the other way round.

 

[MK Tom]

One thing that interests me is the question of whether or not Northampton is capable of sustaining two operators. It was only three to four years ago that three national operators had networks here (First, Stagecoach and Arriva all had significant operations). Now one has pulled out, another is pulling out and we have a new guy in town trying to make inroads. I want Uno to succeed, but is the town's economy and population strong enough to support this kind of competition?

 

[overthewater]

One thing that interests me is the question of whether or not Northampton is capable of sustaining two operators. It was only three to four years ago that three national operators had networks here (First, Stagecoach and Arriva all had significant operations). Now one has pulled out, another is pulling out and we have a new guy in town trying to make inroads. I want Uno to succeed, but is the town's economy and population strong enough to support this kind of competition?

I thought arriva only had two council routes?

I say yes both stagecoach and uno can operate, northampton is huge. There still a good untapped market just waiting to be grabbed. Uno has a lot of uni traffic etc,

 

[MK Tom]

I thought arriva only had two council routes?

I say yes both stagecoach and uno can operate, northampton is huge. There still a good untapped market just waiting to be grabbed. Uno has a lot of uni traffic etc,

They had the 21 and 22, the 50 and 86 at one point as well as the 33 and the 1C, they even had an outstation at Cogenhoe specifically for the Northampton operation.

Well it's not that huge, in terms of population it's slightly smaller than MK and I'm always told we can't support two (although I know we could if one of them actually tried to provide a good service). Anyway I think Northampton can, but Stagecoach are so ferocious in their dominance and competitiveness, they will be extremely difficult to operate against.

 

[overthewater]

They had the 21 and 22, the 50 and 86 at one point as well as the 33 and the 1C, they even had an outstation at Cogenhoe specifically for the Northampton operation.

Well it's not that huge, in terms of population it's slightly smaller than MK and I'm always told we can't support two (although I know we could if one of them actually tried to provide a good service). Anyway I think Northampton can, but Stagecoach are so ferocious in their dominance and competitiveness, they will be extremely difficult to operate against.

What is stagecoach doing in kings health?

 

[markie73]

I'd moved out by the time the 50P came along, but it reminds me a bit of United Counties' short-lived 80 service that did a loop round the Eastern Districts and ran to Weston Favell.

Back when I lived there, the 1 was run jointly, with 2 buses an hour from United Counties and 1 an hour from NT, giving a 20 minute service, which meshed in with the United Counties 51 running almost exactly the same route the other way round.

Blimey thats a blast from the past the 51!, if I remember United Counties used to call this service 'The great eastern line' as it ran from Blackthorn via the bus station to Duston.
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What is stagecoach doing in kings health?

Stagecoach operate the 12 to Kings Heath which replaces the 29/30 which was operated by First.

 

[overthewater]

Are Stagecoach 15 and Meridian 31 doing good business?

 

[MK Tom]

Stagecoach 15 to Acre Lane starts in September. Meridian have seen a huge passenger rise after the end of the 29/30, partly due to them serving a stretch of road Stagecoach have missed out.

 

[David57]

The Meridian 31 buses always seem to carry more air than passengers, Kings Heath is a crowded market, but Stagecoach offer a £2.40 day return on this route the only Adult return offered in the town.

 

[MK Tom]

Meridian offer a £1.10 single and £2.40 day ticket, and they were overwhelmed by the increase in loadings following the end of the 29/30.

 

[overthewater]

Meridian offer a £1.10 single and £2.40 day ticket, and they were overwhelmed by the increase in loadings following the end of the 29/30.

If Stagecoach wanted rid of them, a new 11 would appear following the same route

 

[MK Tom]

Well exactly, which has happened in Rectory Farm with the 8. That's what concerns me and brings us back to my original point!

 

[overthewater]

Well exactly, which has happened in Rectory Farm with the 8. That's what concerns me and brings us back to my original point!

Maybe Stagecoach know uno could do some damage since the 18 is also in the area. I wonder if the 21 could extend via Thorplands to provide a direct bus the uno?

New Map from the council:

http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/...cuments/PDF Documents/Northampton_Jun2013.pdf

 

[A0]

They had the 21 and 22, the 50 and 86 at one point as well as the 33 and the 1C, they even had an outstation at Cogenhoe specifically for the Northampton operation.

Well it's not that huge, in terms of population it's slightly smaller than MK and I'm always told we can't support two (although I know we could if one of them actually tried to provide a good service). Anyway I think Northampton can, but Stagecoach are so ferocious in their dominance and competitiveness, they will be extremely difficult to operate against.

To be fair - Arriva inherited those operations when they bought out MK Metro, so it wasn't really Arriva's strategy much more that of MK Metro's previous owners. And Arriva have, instead, focused their efforts on MK.

I don't think Northampton can support 2 large scale operators competing in all areas of the town - there simply isn't the demand for such an operation.

Uno's focus will be in supporting the University first and foremost, which is how they built up their presence in Hertfordshire. By doing that they are less likely to attract an aggressive response from Stagecoach.

I still wouldn't be surprised if Centrebus started a few more operations in Northampton and Northants more generally as it fits quite nicely with them from a geographic perspective - being half-way between their bases of Luton and Leicester.