Go North East

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Interdeck coaches must be high mileage and have obviously been quite troublesome.

It might have been better for the X84 and X85 if these two services and the 685 didn’t all leave Hexham within 6 minutes of each other every hour. Having said that I took an early evening X84 into Newcastle and it was quite busy.

I fear 2022 may see some significant cuts in commercial services in many areas.

Already hearing of some brutal cuts in my neck of the woods.

The Interdecks really aren't used to grinding through Newcastle and Gateshead, are high mileage and if they are going, it's a shame I ended up with a B5TL when I travelled on the X9 earlier this year. I did think the e400mmc on the X84/X85 were very impressive. Must be said that the Citaros were a vast improvement on the Solars... See what appears there next.

Given that the historic service pattern on the Hexham - Corbridge - West Road - Newcastle was 1 bph (685) with another 1 bph to Ovington (as the 684), it was always dubious whether it could really sustain the service pattern that Go Ahead's competitive incursion represented. With passenger figures being substantially lower, it really isn't a shock.

 

[Andyh82]

The Interdecks would already be used to grinding through urban areas though as if I recall, the Oxford London route includes quite a lot of urban running between Oxford and the motorway, and that’s not to mention the congested slow section on the approach to Victoria

What’s funny is that it was always said the previous double deckers we’re not up to the fast stretches on the A19 and that coaches may be better deployed, at least I suppose they’ve tried that suggestion so it will stop people suggesting it again for a generation!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Interdecks would already be used to grinding through urban areas though as if I recall, the Oxford London route includes quite a lot of urban running between Oxford and the motorway, and that’s not to mention the congested slow section on the approach to Victoria

What’s funny is that it was always said the previous double deckers we’re not up to the fast stretches on the A19 and that coaches may be better deployed, at least I suppose they’ve tried that suggestion so it will stop people suggesting it again for a generation!

Of course they were - I somehow had it in my head they were from the Airlink but, of course, they came from the X90! Doh.

As for deckers on the X9/X10....well, they had plenty of them in the past. I don't think that anyone seriously suggested the Metrobuses, Olympians, B7TLs or B9TLs weren't up to the job. Just that the B5TLs aren't really designed for that sort of operation.

 

[MotCO]

Of course they were - I somehow had it in my head they were from the Airlink but, of course, they came from the X90! Doh.

As for deckers on the X9/X10....well, they had plenty of them in the past. I don't think that anyone seriously suggested the Metrobuses, Olympians, B7TLs or B9TLs weren't up to the job. Just that the B5TLs aren't really designed for that sort of operation.

What would be the ideal bus or coach for these routes?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What would be the ideal bus or coach for these routes?

To be honest, the e400mmc that they are moving over is probably the best bet. The ADL Enviro is a good all-rounder.

First Eastern Counties have a batch of Scania N250 with e400city bodies which are fairly chunky for the punishment they get on the A47 (though I'm less a fan of the city bodywork).

 

[Megafuss]

What would be the ideal bus or coach for these routes?

Personally speaking i'd say the Volvo B8RLE. Either East Coast Buses spec or the Stagecoach Fife triaxle version

 

[Spaceflower]

There's been some significant changes in my old stomping ground I see. X1 extended on two routes (Dalton Park/Peterlee) to give east Durham a Newcastle link. Haven't had a direct bus to the toon since the x5 in the old days of Wear buses (altough the lane clock was only a mile walk down the road from mine). South Hetton has lost its hourly (with gaps) Durham bus though. That probably hung on for a decade longer than it should have....

 

[bobslack1982]

Personally speaking i'd say the Volvo B8RLE. Either East Coast Buses spec or the Stagecoach Fife triaxle version

They trialled it with the Panther LE bodywork. Capacity at the time was too low for the passenger numbers so they didn’t take it any further.

 

[sonic2009]

I travelled on the Hexham - Newcastle service back in August and I counted about 4 people as well as myself on there. I did wonder if those buses would last long.

On a another question, this Tuesday I'm travelling from Crewe to Newcastle/Edinburgh using my Northern free pass and bridging gaps between York/Darlington.

Is there a Go North East service from Darlington/Durham to Newcastle? "

 

[NorthOxonian]

I travelled on the Hexham - Newcastle service back in August and I counted about 4 people as well as myself on there. I did wonder if those buses would last long.

On a another question, this Tuesday I'm travelling from Crewe to Newcastle/Edinburgh using my Northern free pass and bridging gaps between York/Darlington.

Is there a Go North East service from Darlington/Durham to Newcastle? "

Darlington to Newcastle no*, but there is a service from Durham (four buses per hour - two fast X21s and two slow 21s). Another option would be to take a Northern service from Darlington to Bishop Auckland and pick up the X21 there, but that would probably take a little longer.

* There is a fairly frequent Arriva service, number 7 - but it's quite slow due to a circuitous route in Newton Aycliffe, and you'd also have to factor in the time to get from Darlington station to its terminus in the town centre.

 

[Spaceflower]

Or you could go York - Thornaby/Middlesbrough (or even Sunderland if GC are running - their advance tickets were cheap). Go NE connections from those places.

Picking up the x10 at Thornaby (Teesside campus is a 5 minute walk away) might be the quickest of all options (Other than a train straight through ofcourse).

 

[sonic2009]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've got a GC connection from York at 1025, which stops Eaglescliffe or may go to Durham to catch bus.

 

[Spaceflower]

Hang on, You're on a northern ticket? As in train? Durham coast is pretty much the only route into Newcastle except one or two morning peak trips between Darlington and Newcastle which you'll miss.

I reckon the x10 might give the train a run for its money though

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2021 ==

*just checked*

Train is quicker, I'm disappointed in both tbf.

 

[Bristol LHS]

X85 and X9/10 are both routes that must have relied on commuter traffic from office workers and students, topped up with off-peak travel for leisure and (non-essential) shopping - exactly the sort of journeys that have been worst affected by increased home working, virtual learning and cautious customers. They’re also competing with improving train services in both cases - Pacers withdrawn on both routes, increased frequency to Hexham, a new station at Horden (for Peterlee) on the Durham coast route, and additional services coming.

In that respect, the conclusion isn’t surprising - but I think the timing is, coming within 12 months of upgrades from GNE that suggested they weren’t giving up without a fight. That they’ve given up so quickly suggests that the losses must have been immense, because otherwise you’d have expected them to give the upgraded allocations longer to turn things round. I guess the driver shortage plays into this, but if that led to reducing mileage, you can think of less high-profile routes they’d have cut first.

 

[Andyh82]

It does feel like they haven’t given them long enough. There barely seems to have been more than a few weeks of what could be considered as anywhere near normal, with no masks, people back in the office, back at uni etc.

I get the feeling the coaches aren’t working out, they don’t seem particularly reliable, more often than not half the allocation seemed to be ‘Northern Coaching’ Levantes, they need to source replacements and the X85 is the sacrificial lamb that can be axed to provide those replacements

 

[kez19]

I used the x84/x85 route to Corbridge a few months back, the only thing I would say I was surprised at is one of the junctions was narrow (can’t remember where I was), but one bus had to go off road to let the other pass (including emergency services)! Does this upgrading/downgrading routes happen often with Go North East?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I

On a another question, this Tuesday I'm travelling from Crewe to Newcastle/Edinburgh using my Northern free pass and bridging gaps between York/Darlington.

Is there a Go North East service from Darlington/Durham to Newcastle? "

You could go Darlington-Thornaby, then opposite platform for a run round the Durham coast....

Or from York use the grand Central service to Sunderland then on the metro or northern train service...

Or you could ask the train crew of the TPE service for a lift. They are usually pretty obliging, especially the Newcastle based crews, some of which happen to be well known railforum contributors

 

[Spaceflower]

X85 and X9/10 are both routes that must have relied on commuter traffic from office workers and students, topped up with off-peak travel for leisure and (non-essential) shopping - exactly the sort of journeys that have been worst affected by increased home working, virtual learning and cautious customers. They’re also competing with improving train services in both cases - Pacers withdrawn on both routes, increased frequency to Hexham, a new station at Horden (for Peterlee) on the Durham coast route, and additional services coming.

In that respect, the conclusion isn’t surprising - but I think the timing is, coming within 12 months of upgrades from GNE that suggested they weren’t giving up without a fight. That they’ve given up so quickly suggests that the losses must have been immense, because otherwise you’d have expected them to give the upgraded allocations longer to turn things round. I guess the driver shortage plays into this, but if that led to reducing mileage, you can think of less high-profile routes they’d have cut first.

Yes, I was surprised it took so long to introduce fast links between Peterlee and Tyneside/Teesside. Making use of the A19 was a massive boon to journey times between these places and, for the Peterlee area, a vital link to employment/education/health/shopping/leisure, etc opportunities, as well as onward connections. But trying to do too much with one route (X10) has impacted journey times to the point that it has undermined the very reason for its initial success. The new station at Horden wont have helped and the roadworks on the A19 upgrades at both Testo's and Billingham will have also no doubt hit journey times hard. but like Roxette said, 'it's over now'. If the route disappears altogether, it will be missed and I'm sure it won't be long before a rival steps in.
I personally think the coaches were a bit much but it was boarding times and accessibility that I thought of first.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Dec 2021 ==

PS. One thing I keep forgetting is Go's own operator zonal tickets. At one time, I could get from South Hetton (via Peterlee) all the way to Teesside on 1 zone as it was at the extremity of their network. The won't have been cheap to subsidise. I don't know what it's like now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Dec 2021 ==

Just found out the X10 was going in 1997! An hour journey time end to end too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, I was surprised it took so long to introduce fast links between Peterlee and Tyneside/Teesside. Making use of the A19 was a massive boon to journey times between these places and, for the Peterlee area, a vital link to employment/education/health/shopping/leisure, etc opportunities, as well as onward connections. But trying to do too much with one route (X10) has impacted journey times to the point that it has undermined the very reason for its initial success. The new station at Horden wont have helped and the roadworks on the A19 upgrades at both Testo's and Billingham will have also no doubt hit journey times hard. but like Roxette said, 'it's over now'. If the route disappears altogether, it will be missed and I'm sure it won't be long before a rival steps in.
I personally think the coaches were a bit much but it was boarding times and accessibility that I thought of first.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Dec 2021 ==

PS. One thing I keep forgetting is Go's own operator zonal tickets. At one time, I could get from South Hetton (via Peterlee) all the way to Teesside on 1 zone as it was at the extremity of their network. The won't have been cheap to subsidise. I don't know what it's like now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Dec 2021 ==

Just found out the X10 was going in 1997! An hour journey time end to end too.

The X10 has been going since about 1984 - at that time, it was a joint United/Northern route and ran via Middlesbrough and Stockton and then up the A1. Changed to run via the A19 in the late 80s (I think)

Peterlee has had fast links with Newcastle but has struggled at various times with services to Teesside. The opening of Horden has probably impacted most with the Fast Cats withdrawal; these changes are, I would imagine, be because of general decline with Covid

 

[kez19]

I might be asking an awkward question (as someone not knowing the bus routes as such), but can I ask what are the route differences of the Hexham route ie Go North East X84/X85 - I know one goes via Ovington and to also ask the Stagecoach/Arriva 685 route?

I'm aware (last time I went to Hexham), that X84/X85 go in the centre of Corbridge but where does the 685 go, as when I walked around I didn't see a Stagecoach bus anywhere but it seemed to be mostly GNE in the area? (happy to be corrected)

 

[NorthOxonian]

I might be asking an awkward question (as someone not knowing the bus routes as such), but can I ask what are the route differences of the Hexham route ie Go North East X84/X85 - I know one goes via Ovington and to also ask the Stagecoach/Arriva 685 route?

I'm aware (last time I went to Hexham), that X84/X85 go in the centre of Corbridge but where does the 685 go, as when I walked around I didn't see a Stagecoach bus anywhere but it seemed to be mostly GNE in the area? (happy to be corrected)

All three follow the same route out of the city along the West Road, but then diverge once they get out of the city.

The X85 doesn't leave the A69 at all unt Corbridge - it used to serve Heddon but no longer does so. After Corbridge it crosses the river and heads into Hexham via Corbridge Road.

The 685 is very similar, but leaves the A69 to serve Throckley, Heddon, and Horsley. All are just off the main road so they don't extend the journey too much. It follows the same route into Hexham as the X85.

The X84 turns off at the same place as the 685, and runs through Throckley and Heddon. However, just after Heddon it turns down and goes via Wylam, Ovingham and Ovington. It's lovely and scenic, but quite slow, and it can be prone to delays on the narrow country lanes down there - once I got delayed by 15 minutes due to a stand off with a bin lorry on the narrow road through Ovington. It also follows a different route out of Corbridge - it goes more into the very centre of the village and stays on the north bank of the Tyne, before crossing Hexham Bridge and running past the station.

Typically the X85 takes 41 minutes, the 685 takes 49 minutes, and the X84 takes 65 minutes (all off peak).

As for operators, GNE are dominant in most of the Tyne Valley - you'll have seen the 10 in Corbridge (a twice hourly slow service between Newcastle and Hexham via the south side of the valley). The main local routes into Hexham are also run by GNE. Stagecoach and Arriva's only presence is the 685, which is only hourly, so easy to miss as you did.

 

[kez19]

All three follow the same route out of the city along the West Road, but then diverge once they get out of the city.

The X85 doesn't leave the A69 at all unt Corbridge - it used to serve Heddon but no longer does so. After Corbridge it crosses the river and heads into Hexham via Corbridge Road.

The 685 is very similar, but leaves the A69 to serve Throckley, Heddon, and Horsley. All are just off the main road so they don't extend the journey too much. It follows the same route into Hexham as the X85.

The X84 turns off at the same place as the 685, and runs through Throckley and Heddon. However, just after Heddon it turns down and goes via Wylam, Ovingham and Ovington. It's lovely and scenic, but quite slow, and it can be prone to delays on the narrow country lanes down there - once I got delayed by 15 minutes due to a stand off with a bin lorry on the narrow road through Ovington. It also follows a different route out of Corbridge - it goes more into the very centre of the village and stays on the north bank of the Tyne, before crossing Hexham Bridge and running past the station.

Typically the X85 takes 41 minutes, the 685 takes 49 minutes, and the X84 takes 65 minutes (all off peak).

As for operators, GNE are dominant in most of the Tyne Valley - you'll have seen the 10 in Corbridge (a twice hourly slow service between Newcastle and Hexham via the south side of the valley). The main local routes into Hexham are also run by GNE. Stagecoach and Arriva's only presence is the 685, which is only hourly, so easy to miss as you did.

I think that was the route I was on the X85 as the Ovington part rings a bell as well as you mention a stand off, couple months ago I got caught out in that area where a bus had to go off road for the other to pass but the emergency services needed passed too!

I know this thread is GNE but how does the ticketing work for the 685? Do I buy the Explorer ticket from either Arriva or Stagecoach is it accepted universally by the 2 operators?

 

[NorthOxonian]

I think that was the route I was on the X85 as the Ovington part rings a bell as well as you mention a stand off, couple months ago I got caught out in that area where a bus had to go off road for the other to pass but the emergency services needed passed too!

I know this thread is GNE but how does the ticketing work for the 685? Do I buy the Explorer ticket from either Arriva or Stagecoach is it accepted universally by the 2 operators?

I can certainly believe that. I never use the X84 for end to end journeys because it only arrives in Hexham a few minutes before the next X85, and there's always that risk you could get a delay.

Regarding your question, a North East Explorer is unquestionably valid on either. It's a bit more complicated than that for other tickets (essentially, ticketing is supposed to be completely integrated so you can buy or use either operator's ticket on either operator's bus - but it's not quite so simple in practice) - but I don't understand exactly how that all works and as you say it'd be getting a long way off topic.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

For @kez19 a bit more info.....

Historically, the Tyne Valley was United Auto territory (which then became Northumbria in 1986 and Arriva in 1997). It remained Arriva territory with the 602/604/X64 on the south side (Newcastle - Prudhoe - Corbridge - Hexham) and 685 Newcastle - West Road - Corbridge - Hexham - Brampton - Carlisle, which was operated with 4 Arriva and 2 Stagecoach Cumberland vehicles. There was also a Newcastle to Ovington service (684) that passed on tender at deregulation to OK Travel, then was operated by them for years (partially commercially) and then to Arriva for a short time, as well as an infrequent 687 Hexham to Horsley service.

In 2010, having been involved in a bus war (and outmanoeuvred by Go North East), Arriva sold their Hexham depot to Go North East. The 602/604/X64 became the Tyne Valley 10 and they gained the other routes from Arriva (town services, 684, 687 and up to Allenheads). However, the 685 remained with Arriva, speeded up so it was 3 Arriva (from Jesmond) and 2 Stagecoach (from Carlisle). The peace was then disturbed when Go Ahead decided to compete against the hourly 685. They extended the 684 to Hexham (as the X84 and replacing the 687) and introduced the fast X85. With a few changes at the Hexham end, that's largely how you've got to where you are now with three buses per hour from Hexham along the West Road to Newcastle when before, there was just one.

@NorthOxonian is correct in that the Explorer North East ticket is valid on Arriva, Stagecoach Cumberland (including local services in Carlisle) and Go Ahead and is so valid on all the services. However, other tickets (return tickets, weekly tickets etc) are not inter-available AFAIK; there are various other multi-operator tickets in Tyne and Wear like the Newcastle smartzone.

Hope this helps explain things a bit more

 

[Spaceflower]

For @kez19 a bit more info.....

Historically, the Tyne Valley was United Auto territory (which then became Northumbria in 1986 and Arriva in 1997). It remained Arriva territory with the 602/604/X64 on the south side (Newcastle - Prudhoe - Corbridge - Hexham) and 685 Newcastle - West Road - Corbridge - Hexham - Brampton - Carlisle, which was operated with 4 Arriva and 2 Stagecoach Cumberland vehicles. There was also a Newcastle to Ovington service (684) that passed on tender at deregulation to OK Travel, then was operated by them for years (partially commercially) and then to Arriva for a short time, as well as an infrequent 687 Hexham to Horsley service.

In 2010, having been involved in a bus war (and outmanoeuvred by Go North East), Arriva sold their Hexham depot to Go North East. The 602/604/X64 became the Tyne Valley 10 and they gained the other routes from Arriva (town services, 684, 687 and up to Allenheads). However, the 685 remained with Arriva, speeded up so it was 3 Arriva (from Jesmond) and 2 Stagecoach (from Carlisle). The peace was then disturbed when Go Ahead decided to compete against the hourly 685. They extended the 684 to Hexham (as the X84 and replacing the 687) and introduced the fast X85. With a few changes at the Hexham end, that's largely how you've got to where you are now with three buses per hour from Hexham along the West Road to Newcastle when before, there was just one.

@NorthOxonian is correct in that the Explorer North East ticket is valid on Arriva, Stagecoach Cumberland (including local services in Carlisle) and Go Ahead and is so valid on all the services. However, other tickets (return tickets, weekly tickets etc) are not inter-available AFAIK; there are various other multi-operator tickets in Tyne and Wear like the Newcastle smartzone.

Hope this helps explain things a bit more

United were still operating in Co Durham right up to 1997 (ish). I wonder why they continue to operate the 685 then?

 

[kez19]

For @kez19 a bit more info.....

Historically, the Tyne Valley was United Auto territory (which then became Northumbria in 1986 and Arriva in 1997). It remained Arriva territory with the 602/604/X64 on the south side (Newcastle - Prudhoe - Corbridge - Hexham) and 685 Newcastle - West Road - Corbridge - Hexham - Brampton - Carlisle, which was operated with 4 Arriva and 2 Stagecoach Cumberland vehicles. There was also a Newcastle to Ovington service (684) that passed on tender at deregulation to OK Travel, then was operated by them for years (partially commercially) and then to Arriva for a short time, as well as an infrequent 687 Hexham to Horsley service.

In 2010, having been involved in a bus war (and outmanoeuvred by Go North East), Arriva sold their Hexham depot to Go North East. The 602/604/X64 became the Tyne Valley 10 and they gained the other routes from Arriva (town services, 684, 687 and up to Allenheads). However, the 685 remained with Arriva, speeded up so it was 3 Arriva (from Jesmond) and 2 Stagecoach (from Carlisle). The peace was then disturbed when Go Ahead decided to compete against the hourly 685. They extended the 684 to Hexham (as the X84 and replacing the 687) and introduced the fast X85. With a few changes at the Hexham end, that's largely how you've got to where you are now with three buses per hour from Hexham along the West Road to Newcastle when before, there was just one.

@NorthOxonian is correct in that the Explorer North East ticket is valid on Arriva, Stagecoach Cumberland (including local services in Carlisle) and Go Ahead and is so valid on all the services. However, other tickets (return tickets, weekly tickets etc) are not inter-available AFAIK; there are various other multi-operator tickets in Tyne and Wear like the Newcastle smartzone.

Hope this helps explain things a bit more

The ticketing side: that helps a lot as I wasn’t sure if even that was possible but that’s good to know that too!

You mentioned the 10 bus service, I like that route (scenic) as well, being honest I got off at the Metrocentre after I had been to Corbridge then hopped on possibly X45 or X47? back to Newcastle


thanks for the info again appreciated

 

[route101]

The ticketing side: that helps a lot as I wasn’t sure if even that was possible but that’s good to know that too!

You mentioned the 10 bus service, I like that route (scenic) as well, being honest I got off at the Metrocentre after I had been to Corbridge then hopped on possibly X45 or X47? back to Newcastle


thanks for the info again appreciated

You can buy the NE explorer on the Stagecoach app. I know some drivers get suspicious of tickets on other operators apps but I managed to use it no problem on the X85 to Hexham.

 

[kez19]

You can buy the NE explorer on the Stagecoach app. I know some drivers get suspicious of tickets on other operators apps but I managed to use it no problem on the X85 to Hexham.

That’s fine , the good thing is I at least have the apps for the operators in the area on phone.

I see it advertised on GNE app too but that’s good to know!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You mentioned the 10 bus service, I like that route (scenic) as well, being honest I got off at the Metrocentre after I had been to Corbridge then hopped on possibly X45 or X47? back to Newcastle

Yeah, it's a nice trip. Earlier this year, I did Consett to Hamsterley Bank (Top), walked down the hill to get a 10A (?) to Crawcrook and then planned to get the 686 to Ovington but that didn't pan out so enjoyed the 10 to Corbridge. The Tyne Valley is gorgeous.

I've never tried to use an Arriva (or Go Ahead) Explorer on a Stagecoach bus on a Carlisle city service but the joint operation between Arriva and Stagecoach and the existence of Explorer NE is so established, I'd be very surprised if you had a problem.

ps my first trip to Hexham was in 1986 when it was still United and Cumberland on the 685; I returned on the 602 (now 10) - it may have been @Geordie driver who chauffeured me back

 

[kez19]

Yeah, it's a nice trip. Earlier this year, I did Consett to Hamsterley Bank (Top), walked down the hill to get a 10A (?) to Crawcrook and then planned to get the 686 to Ovington but that didn't pan out so enjoyed the 10 to Corbridge. The Tyne Valley is gorgeous.

I've never tried to use an Arriva (or Go Ahead) Explorer on a Stagecoach bus on a Carlisle city service but the joint operation between Arriva and Stagecoach and the existence of Explorer NE is so established, I'd be very surprised if you had a problem.

ps my first trip to Hexham was in 1986 when it was still United and Cumberland on the 685; I returned on the 602 (now 10) - it may have been @Geordie driver who chauffeured me back

I ventured out to Consett to check out that Hownsgill Viaduct and took a walk along that part of the path, I was surprised that if I had crossed over the viaduct there isn't much of a bus service? (I did a bit of research beforehand luckily).

I also managed to check out the St Marys Lighthouse via GNE 309 - handy service but was surprised from that end there is more Arriva services back to Newcastle than GNE!