Go Cornwall Bus

[LAIRA]

With the many new contract go Cornwall has got, does it require a lot of extra buses?

I have been told the number of buses on Callywith equals the number of buses reqd for the gained school contracts but not all based in Bodmin. Truro School will be extra and some 18 reg were suppose to be coming from London but I understand that they are now going to Oxford. With the new electrics being delivered I would guess maybe 550-576 will be suitable for Truro but would mean the old buses would continue to run in Plymouth. The Scanias are already being kept for Boardmasters.

 

[Goldfish62]

I have been told the number of buses on Callywith equals the number of buses reqd for the gained school contracts but not all based in Bodmin. Truro School will be extra and some 18 reg were suppose to be coming from London but I understand that they are now going to Oxford. With the new electrics being delivered I would guess maybe 550-576 will be suitable for Truro but would mean the old buses would continue to run in Plymouth. The Scanias are already being kept for Boardmasters.

If it's the Streetdecks from London which are being diverted to Oxford, frankly that's a good thing. Totally gutless and unreliable.

 

[LAIRA]

If it's the Streetdecks from London which are being diverted to Oxford, frankly that's a good thing. Totally gutless and unreliable.

My feelings excatly

 

[richard13]

Go Cornwall has posted the timetable changes from 31st August.
Cornwall from 31st Aug

 

[Goldfish62]

Go Cornwall has posted the timetable changes from 31st August.
Cornwall from 31st Aug

That's quite some list!

Still wondering where Stagecoach are going to operate route CC1 (Pendeen - Cornwall College Pool) from! A lot of dead mileage!

 

[Andyh82]

Does

That's quite some list!

Still wondering Stagecoach are going to operate route CC1 (Pendeen - Cornwall College Pool) from! A lot of dead mileage!

doesnt help that a lot of schools that aren’t anything to do with the contract changes seem to be changing their school day, and as we know Cornwall’s bus network revolves around the school timings, so that’s even more changes

It’ll be interesting to see what the extra journeys/services “to support newly awarded contract for transport services to Truro & Penwith College” consist of, presumably they will just be replacing the U1X, U4X etc?

 

[Accelerator59]

That's quite some list!

Still wondering where Stagecoach are going to operate route CC1 (Pendeen - Cornwall College Pool) from! A lot of dead mileage!

It’ll be unusual to see a Stagecoach vehicle in that neck of the woods.

 

[DaveHarries]

The 11 has virtually been cut into two sections with a gap between them yet both are shown on the same timetable. But, at the same time, the 12 has been split into the 12, 76A and 76, some journeys running through and some not, also shown together but very confusing. The middle section isn't even shown on the map now. Why is the western part of the 11 not renumbered?

It very soon will be. The changes linked to above in post 2704 informs that Service 11 will be Dobwalls to Plymouth only with the Bodmin Parkway to Padstow section becoming Service 57. Meanwhile there is also an extension of Service 55 to give, on most journeys, links between Bodmin, Trago Mills and Liskeard: given the new Tamar Connect ticket - https://www.transportforcornwall.co.uk/service-and-ticketing-update-go-cornwall-bus - I wonder if the timings of Services 11 & 55 will allow a convenient change of bus at Bodmin for anyone wishing to travel through. It would be nice to do so: in my last job if I got sent to Wadebridge (or points west of there over to Padstow) I used to get the bus all the way to Plymouth: I enjoyed the trip and it was very useful if the trans were on strike!

Dave

 

[Goldfish62]

It’ll be unusual to see a Stagecoach vehicle in that neck of the woods.

Possibly the first time ever one has got that fat west?

 

[Jamesbus80]

It appears that Plymouth Citybus have added three significant routes of note since their original upload: certainly, I did not note the following three routes the first time that I read the update.

Transport for Cornwall Service Updates - 31st August 2025

Route 32 - Truro to Falmouth

New Service to support newly awarded contract for transport services to Truro & Penwith College.

Mirroring First's U1 Truro to Falmouth

Route 41 - Treswithian - Camborne - Redruth - Truro

New Service to support newly awarded contract for transport services to Truro & Penwith College.

Competing with the Camborne to Truro section of First's T1 and T2

Route 86 - Truro - Shortlanesend - Perranporth - Cubert - Newquay

New Service to support newly awarded contract for transport services to Truro & Penwith College and provide often requested links from Cubert and Crantock to Perranporth for access to health facilities.

Competing and complementing with First's 87.

Unofficial sources (a driver I spoke to while on holiday earlier in the week) in Cornwall indicate that these are competitive services to First's routes and have been introduced because First are not accepting Truro College passes on their service buses, following the loss of the contract of the college services to Go Ahead. I do not have an official source for this, but the press release indicates this could have an element of truth. No word on frequencies or timetables yet.

Best wishes,
James

 

[Andyh82]

I made reference to those services in post 2706. I was asking then, are they full services or are they just U1X type services

 

[Goldfish62]

I made reference to those services in post 2706. I was asking then, are they full services or are they just U1X type services

Looking at Bustimes / Traveline the 41 (3bph) and 86 (1bph) are very much full services, although the 86 is only until mid-afternoon. The 32 hasn't appeared yet.

The 41 mirrors the T1/T2 except for a different routing in Camborne. It doesn't serve the bus station towards Treswithian.

The 86 has a different routing at the Truro end to the 87, running via Shortlanesend instead of Threemilestone.

 

[Andyh82]

Route 41 - Treswithian - Camborne - Redruth - Truro

Competing with the Camborne to Truro section of First's T1 and T2

That would have been convenient when I stayed at the Premier Inn there, a bus every 20 minutes starting outside

 

[farwest]

Looking at Bustimes / Traveline the 41 (3bph) and 86 (1bph) are very much full services, although the 86 is only until mid-afternoon. The 32 hasn't appeared yet.

The 41 mirrors the T1/T2 except for a different routing in Camborne. It doesn't serve the bus station towards Treswithian.

The 86 has a different routing at the Turo end to the 87, running via Shortlanesend instead of Threemilestone.

I remember getting the bus from Truro to Perranporth via Shortlanesend. It used to go up Pydar street before it was pedestalised.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Looking at Bustimes / Traveline the 41 (3bph) and 86 (1bph) are very much full services, although the 86 is only until mid-afternoon. The 32 hasn't appeared yet.

The 41 mirrors the T1/T2 except for a different routing in Camborne. It doesn't serve the bus station towards Treswithian.

The 86 has a different routing at the Truro end to the 87, running via Shortlanesend instead of Threemilestone.

I suspect that Go Ahead are simply having another go at undermining First, much as they were about to in 2021 when they registered but never introduced a Falmouth to Truro express. That seemed to disappear (at a time of driver shortages) when First withdrew from St Austell to Bodmin IIRC. Of course, First are much weaker now. Shrewd move to try to remove one of the obvious threats for the 2028 package.

 

[Goldfish62]

I suspect that Go Ahead are simply having another go at undermining First, much as they were about to in 2021 when they registered but never introduced a Falmouth to Truro express. That seemed to disappear (at a time of driver shortages) when First withdrew from St Austell to Bodmin IIRC. Of course, First are much weaker now. Shrewd move to try to remove one of the obvious threats for the 2028 package.

That's my conclusion as well - looking ahead to 2028.

However, I don't like wasteful competition, especially when there's no indication of under-provision on the corridors. Clearly, 7 buses per hour between Camborne and Truro is going to be a massive over-provision.

I wonder how effective the competition will be as well. Given that fares under the TfC partnership are completely interoperable and use the same scale GCB can't compete on fares. Plus, if the 7/7A (Land's End - St Ives) is anything to go by they don't believe in any sort of extra marketing or publicity to promote new commercial services. I suppose it's a case of GCB hoping to cream off sufficient revenue as to take less of a hit than First does and hope First blinks first.

The question is, if GCB are successful and First pull the plug, will they replicate the services that existed before the competition started? My experience elsewhere is that that is very often not the case and passengers end up with a worse service than before.

 

[GBM]

That's my conclusion as well - looking ahead to 2028.

However, I don't like wasteful competition, especially when there's no indication of under-provision on the corridors. Clearly, 7 buses per hour between Camborne and Truro is going to be a massive over-provision.

I wonder how effective the competition will be as well. Given that fares under the TfC partnership are completely interoperable and use the same scale GCB can't compete on fares. Plus, if the 7/7A (Land's End - St Ives) is anything to go by they don't believe in any sort of extra marketing or publicity to promote new commercial services. I suppose it's a case of GCB hoping to cream off sufficient revenue as to take less of a hit than First does and hope First blinks first.

The question is, if GCB are successful and First pull the plug, will they replicate the services that existed before the competition started? My experience elsewhere is that that is very often not the case and passengers end up with a worse service than before.

Shortly after I started off driving, at one time the Camborne - Truro corridor had 6 services an hour, plus the occasional duplicate; not to mention the Camborne - Truro via all country roads (39 and something else service).

 

[Goldfish62]

Shortly after I started off driving, at one time the Camborne - Truro corridor had 6 services an hour, plus the occasional duplicate; not to mention the Camborne - Truro via all country roads (39 and something else service).

I'm sure it did - at one time. There were higher frequencies in many places because demand was higher. At one time there were 5 buses per hour between Penzance and Mousehole.

Are you suggesting, though, that the current 4bph is an under-provision and that there's a need for 7bph? In my experience the only time there's overcrowding is when a short Solo is put on the T1/T2.

 

[GBM]

I'm sure it did - at one time. There were higher frequencies in many places because demand was higher. At one time there were 5 buses per hour between Penzance and Mousehole.

Are you suggesting, though, that the current 4bph is an under-provision and that there's a need for 7bph? In my experience the only time there's overcrowding is when a short Solo is put on the T1/T2.

Which is not an uncommon sight these days unfortunately.

 

[Goldfish62]

Which is not an uncommon sight these days unfortunately.

It should hopefully reduce given that most Solos are going. At least one has moved to Scotland already. Anyway, bit OT..

 

[I'm here now]

I'm sure it did - at one time. There were higher frequencies in many places because demand was higher. At one time there were 5 buses per hour between Penzance and Mousehole.

Are you suggesting, though, that the current 4bph is an under-provision and that there's a need for 7bph? In my experience the only time there's overcrowding is when a short Solo is put on the T1/T2.

I remember when T1/T2 were much more frequent - it was great and easy to use! There’s a fair few people in the Camborne-Pool-Redruth area that need a better bus service so it’s a start.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Are you suggesting, though, that the current 4bph is an under-provision and that there's a need for 7bph? In my experience the only time there's overcrowding is when a short Solo is put on the T1/T2.

The frequency was reduced when the deckers were introduced. It was 6 per hour but with singles when it was the 14/18.

 

[Goldfish62]

The frequency was reduced when the deckers were introduced. It was 6 per hour but with singles when it was the 14/18.

Yes, I remember that. But so what in the current context? Even if the 41 uses single decks you're still going to have a lot more capacity that when it was 6bph with all single decks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2025 ==

I remember when T1/T2 were much more frequent - it was great and easy to use! There’s a fair few people in the Camborne-Pool-Redruth area that need a better bus service so it’s a start.

It's currently every 15 min. Prior to the new buses being introduced it was every 10 min. That's hardly "much more frequent". The average wait time (AWT) has gone from 5 min to 7.5 min. If GCB really thought the frequency needed upping they'd run 4bph on the 41, interworked with the T1/T2 to give a bus every 7-8 min. 3bph cannot interwork with 4bph. It doesn't work mathematically. Much of the time you're going to get a 41 and a T1/T2 running together.

If the good people of Camborne - Pool - Redruth want better services I'm sure what they have in mind is extra resources instead on currently poorly served corridors rather than being chucked on an already well-served one.

It's plain the 41 is a spoiler to hit First. Either it'll fail and be withdrawn quickly, or First will reduce the T1 /T2 (and probably hit the Hayle - Penzance / St Ives section as a knock-on consequence). Either way, it's not going to last. It rarely does, even in areas which are solid bus territory with heavy loadings all day.

 

[LAIRA]

Yes, I remember that. But so what in the current context? Even if the 41 uses single decks you're still going to have a lot more capacity that when it was 6bph with all single decks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2025 ==


It's currently every 15 min. Prior to the new buses being introduced it was every 10 min. That's hardly "much more frequent". The average wait time (AWT) has gone from 5 min to 7.5 min. If GCB really thought the frequency needed upping they'd run 4bph on the 41, interworked with the T1/T2 to give a bus every 7-8 min. 3bph cannot interwork with 4bph. It doesn't work mathematically. Much of the time you're going to get a 41 and a T1/T2 running together.

If the good people of Camborne - Pool - Redruth want better services I'm sure what they have in mind is extra resources instead on currently poorly served corridors rather than being chucked on an already well-served one.

It's plain the 41 is a spoiler to hit First. Either it'll fail and be withdrawn quickly, or First will reduce the T1 /T2 (and probably hit the Hayle - Penzance / St Ives section as a knock-on consequence). Either way, it's not going to last. It rarely does, even in areas which are solid bus territory with heavy loadings all day.

I understand these services are being introduced because First are not going to accept Truro school passes. After the first two weeks the students do not have to stay at college for the full day if they no longer have lessons. Many of the students are in the habit of coming in later or going home early. This is the purpose of these services and if you are going to do it you might as well make the most of your chances.

 

[Goldfish62]

I understand these services are being introduced because First are not going to accept Truro school passes. After the first two weeks the students do not have to stay at college for the full day if they no longer have lessons. Many of the students are in the habit of coming in later or going home early. This is the purpose of these services and if you are going to do it you might as well make the most of your chances.

Interesting.

Previously, when First ran the contract did GoCornwall accept Truro College passes and were they reimbursed for doing so?

 

[WibbleWobble]

Yes, I remember that. But so what in the current context? Even if the 41 uses single decks you're still going to have a lot more capacity that when it was 6bph with all single decks.

I was just making the point for context that it was reduced when the deckers were introduced, as First felt they could provide the same capacity (I assume standees as well as seated, not just seated) with fewer journeys per hour.

No need for the tone though, how am I to know that you remember that? I'm sure that there are others who don't know/ remember.

 

[Goldfish62]

No need for the tone though, how am I to know that you remember that? I'm sure that there are others who don't know/ remember.

Tone certainly not intended - apologies if it came across that way!

 

[farwest]

It appears that Plymouth Citybus have added three significant routes of note since their original upload: certainly, I did not note the following three routes the first time that I read the update.

Transport for Cornwall Service Updates - 31st August 2025

Route 32 - Truro to Falmouth

Mirroring First's U1 Truro to Falmouth

Route 41 - Treswithian - Camborne - Redruth - Truro

Competing with the Camborne to Truro section of First's T1 and T2

Route 86 - Truro - Shortlanesend - Perranporth - Cubert - Newquay

Competing and complementing with First's 87.

Unofficial sources (a driver I spoke to while on holiday earlier in the week) in Cornwall indicate that these are competitive services to First's routes and have been introduced because First are not accepting Truro College passes on their service buses, following the loss of the contract of the college services to Go Ahead. I do not have an official source for this, but the press release indicates this could have an element of truth. No word on frequencies or timetables yet.

Best wishes,
James

It would be good if the 32 brought back the through connection between Falmouth and Treliske hospital. Many people miss that since they chopped the U1

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wonder how effective the competition will be as well. Given that fares under the TfC partnership are completely interoperable and use the same scale GCB can't compete on fares. Plus, if the 7/7A (Land's End - St Ives) is anything to go by they don't believe in any sort of extra marketing or publicity to promote new commercial services. I suppose it's a case of GCB hoping to cream off sufficient revenue as to take less of a hit than First does and hope First blinks first.

The question is, if GCB are successful and First pull the plug, will they replicate the services that existed before the competition started? My experience elsewhere is that that is very often not the case and passengers end up with a worse service than before.

Bus wars are now seldom fought on fares. Given that half the passengers are concessionary pass holders of some description, it will simply be a case of revenue erosion by GCB on account of just turning up. Now in the case of 7/7A, what incentive do they have to market the services. They're tendered and the council bears the revenue risk? For these new routes, they might be a bit more proactive. Still, they are using resources at marginal cost so it's not a massive commercial risk for GCB.

If the experience of Go Ahead and First in Southampton, then arguably the network is actually better in the long run with First going. That said, Go South Coast is a better operation than Go South West. I'd also point to Stagecoach in North Devon who won the Devon tenders, then went in against First and eventually ousted them, and I'd argue did a better job in developing those operations.

Said it before... there were many words by posters that stated that First shouldn't be too bothered about losing the tenders in 2019, as they could focus on new commercial opportunities and Vision 2020. I thought that wasn't right then, and the risks of Go Ahead parking tanks on the lawn were obvious.

I remember when T1/T2 were much more frequent - it was great and easy to use! There’s a fair few people in the Camborne-Pool-Redruth area that need a better bus service so it’s a start.

The frequency was reduced when the deckers were introduced. It was 6 per hour but with singles when it was the 14/18.

IIRC, it was the Mon-Fri frequency that was every 10 mins with a 30 min headway to Penzance, 30 min to St Ives, and 30 min shorts Truro to Camborne. When the deckers came and the Tinner brand introduced, the dropping of the shorts to create the 15 min headway just replicated the existing Saturday pattern.

I understand these services are being introduced because First are not going to accept Truro school passes. After the first two weeks the students do not have to stay at college for the full day if they no longer have lessons. Many of the students are in the habit of coming in later or going home early. This is the purpose of these services and if you are going to do it you might as well make the most of your chances.

Interesting.

Previously, when First ran the contract did GoCornwall accept Truro College passes and were they reimbursed for doing so?

A very good point from @Goldfish62 - On the First website, it did say

"We offer a range of great value bus tickets. If you plan to attend college most days, the best value ticket will be an annual pass. Buy this direct from the college. Truro & Penwith College are able to reduce the costs of travel for many students. Visit the college website or speak to the Student Services Teams at college.

This year we are working together with all operators in Cornwall to make bus travel easier - you can use your bus tickets on any bus, on any route* across Cornwall – we’re one big bus network. Once you’ve found the ticket that suits you best you can use it on any bus in Cornwall no matter what colour it is, or who's driving it. " the * was Truro P&R

However, if I were to believe that were the case that this is a truly philanthropic move from GCB, then they'd spread the same resources further to provide more benefit e.g. fewer buses on the 41 to allow a service from Truro to St Austell, as an example. No, they are going for the three biggest corridors to damage First so that they pull the plug IMO.

 

[I'm here now]

Yes, I remember that. But so what in the current context? Even if the 41 uses single decks you're still going to have a lot more capacity that when it was 6bph with all single decks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2025 ==


It's currently every 15 min. Prior to the new buses being introduced it was every 10 min. That's hardly "much more frequent". The average wait time (AWT) has gone from 5 min to 7.5 min. If GCB really thought the frequency needed upping they'd run 4bph on the 41, interworked with the T1/T2 to give a bus every 7-8 min. 3bph cannot interwork with 4bph. It doesn't work mathematically. Much of the time you're going to get a 41 and a T1/T2 running together.

If the good people of Camborne - Pool - Redruth want better services I'm sure what they have in mind is extra resources instead on currently poorly served corridors rather than being chucked on an already well-served one.

It's plain the 41 is a spoiler to hit First. Either it'll fail and be withdrawn quickly, or First will reduce the T1 /T2 (and probably hit the Hayle - Penzance / St Ives section as a knock-on consequence). Either way, it's not going to last. It rarely does, even in areas which are solid bus territory with heavy loadings all day.

Frequency issues aside, GCB generally operate services better for the passenger than First - esp. contracted services down West in my eyes. First has it all grimy and with v. disjointed branding compared to GCB. Hopefully, the council people will capitalise on GCB’s better operations so that they can better integrate the current First services.