Go Cornwall Bus

[Goldfish62]

Now in the case of 7/7A, what incentive do they have to market the services. They're tendered and the council bears the revenue risk? For these new routes, they might be a bit more proactive. Still, they are using resources at marginal cost so it's not a massive commercial risk for GCB.

The 7/7A is a commercial venture by GCB, not a tendered service. I doubt if many people who used the Coaster along this section of route and could be tempted are actually even aware of the replacement service, such is its low profile.

Certainly the 86 looks to be operated on the margin, ie in between college runs. However, that's not the case with the 41, which runs at the same time as the college services. Looking the timetable on Bustimes it needs 8 buses and even if a couple of them can somehow be resourced from college work that's a hefty commitment. It also runs on Saturdays.

 

[Andyh82]

I know everyone wants First out of Cornwall, but a side effect, it would likely make the 2028 retendering very messy

Imagine if Go Ahead didn’t win, and by that stage you’d have Go Cornwall Bus running a mix of tenders, commercial work, and college runs on a separate contract that probably doesn’t expire at the same time, in many cases running out of council owned yards that they don’t own, how do you untangle all that?

 

[MotCO]

I know everyone wants First out of Cornwall, but a side effect, it would likely make the 2028 retendering very messy

Imagine if Go Ahead didn’t win, and by that stage you’d have Go Cornwall Bus running a mix of tenders, commercial work, and college runs on a separate contract that probably doesn’t expire at the same time, in many cases running out of council owned yards that they don’t own, how do you untangle all that?

Do commercial or college services run out of Council-owned premises? If so, presumably these would not be available to Go-Ahead if they lost the tenders.

 

[Goldfish62]

I know everyone wants First out of Cornwall, but a side effect, it would likely make the 2028 retendering very messy

Imagine if Go Ahead didn’t win, and by that stage you’d have Go Cornwall Bus running a mix of tenders, commercial work, and college runs on a separate contract that probably doesn’t expire at the same time, in many cases running out of council owned yards that they don’t own, how do you untangle all that?

Absolutely.

Last time round it was very neat because GA put together a successful package bid for all routes (which barred them from putting in any separate bids for individual routes). Next time round we may have the same outcome with GA or maybe First or Stagecoach winning everything, or it could revert to multiple operators winning a variety of routes. The latter of course could put the inter-operable ticketing, the stand-out success of the TfC partnership, in jeopardy unless it's made a condition of contract at the bid stage.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I know everyone wants First out of Cornwall, but a side effect, it would likely make the 2028 retendering very messy

Imagine if Go Ahead didn’t win, and by that stage you’d have Go Cornwall Bus running a mix of tenders, commercial work, and college runs on a separate contract that probably doesn’t expire at the same time, in many cases running out of council owned yards that they don’t own, how do you untangle all that?

Would it not be a case of Go Ahead paying commercial rates for the facilities? They might be doing that already rather than FOC?

The 7/7A is a commercial venture by GCB, not a tendered service. I doubt if many people who used the Coaster along this section of route and could be tempted are actually even aware of the replacement service, such is its low profile.

Really? That is a surprise. Whilst again much of that can be done with off peak resources, it seems an odd way to go about things.

Certainly the 86 looks to be operated on the margin, ie in between college runs. However, that's not the case with the 41, which runs at the same time as the college services. Looking the timetable on Bustimes it needs 8 buses and even if a couple of them can somehow be resourced from college work that's a hefty commitment. It also runs on Saturdays.

Not seen the 41 times - is it on Traveline?

I remember Faresaver pursuing a very smart approach of having, for instance, a route where there would be 6 vehicles off peak. There would only be two in peak doing selected journeys though, and it meant they could then flood the route off peak with vehicles from college workings, and it killed First.

 

[Goldfish62]

Do commercial or college services run out of Council-owned premises? If so, presumably these would not be available to Go-Ahead if they lost the tenders.

I believe all of GA's premises in Cornwall are council-owned. At bid stage all operators were offered these premises on the basis of being charged full commercial rates. I presume that the increase in vehicles as a result of the gained work means an increase in the rate the council charges for use lf the relevant sites.

The council is in the early stages of building (very slowly!) a multiple operator depot at Longrock for GA and FSW to share, so I don't see any reason why the council would be against sharing of their premises elsewhere by operators in the future.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

Would it not be a case of Go Ahead paying commercial rates for the facilities? They might be doing that already rather than FOC?

Yes - they pay full commercial rate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

Really? That is a surprise. Whilst again much of that can be done with off peak resources, it seems an odd way to go about things.

And my hence my comment about nothing being done to market the route. Very much an outlier in GoAhead who usually excel in such things when compared to the other big groups.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

Not seen the 41 times - is it on Traveline?

Here's the link to it on Bustimes:

41 - Treswithian - Redruth - Truro

Go Cornwall Bus

bustimes.org

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe all of GA's premises in Cornwall are council-owned. At bid stage all operators were offered these premises on the basis of being charged full commercial rates. I presume that the increase in vehicles as a result of the gained work means an increase in the rate the council charges for use lf the relevant sites.

The council is in the early stages of building (very slowly!) a multiple operator depot at Longrock for GA and FSW to share, so I don't see any reason why the council would be against sharing of their premises elsewhere by operators in the future.

That was my recollection, in that they had to be charging commercial rates in order not to distort the tender process (and leave themselves open to challenge), and that GSW clearly have an arrangement where they can accommodate additional vehicles albeit up to an agreed limit.

And my hence my comment about nothing being done to market the route. Very much an outlier in GoAhead who usually excel in such things when compared to the other big groups.

It can be a bit patchy. GSW isn't to the same level as Go South Coast or B&H, but it's better than East Anglia.

Here's the link to it on Bustimes:

Thank you for that. See what you mean - certainly a good 6 dedicated vehicles with a few peak hour gaps in the morning, but a full compliment in the afternoon. Will or can First respond?

 

[Andyh82]

The advertising of the Cornwall network does seem very public sector, very London

Focus solely on price, and now the fares have gone up, don’t even focus on that

There is no individual promotion of any services, like First used to do in the heyday of the Kernow era, it’s just a very functional ‘here’s a network of identical red buses’ work it out yourself

Stuff like the faster 93 route to Newquay last year never got any promo bar appearing in the timetable

 

[JKP]

Is there any possibility that 2028 will see franchising rather than retendering of the network? After all there will be three to four years experience gained from the Bee Network should Cornwall Council wish to go down that road. The information in a previous post that the Council are financing a multi operator depot must show there are possibilities? The Council would have to take on the financial revenue risk of operations, if they do not already do so.

 

[Goldfish62]

Is there any possibility that 2028 will see franchising rather than retendering of the network? After all there will be three to four years experience gained from the Bee Network should Cornwall Council wish to go down that road. The information in a previous post that the Council are financing a multi operator depot must show there are possibilities? The Council would have to take on the financial revenue risk of operations, if they do not already do so.

The operator currently takes the revenue risk.

The council occasionally mentions franchising, but usually as a threat to incumbent operators. However, who knows? The government are probably keen to experiment with a rural area, but as with the cities it would need a lot of public funding to get off the ground, and Cornwall most certainly cannot self-fund it. With market engagement for the new tendering round probably starting in no later 18 months time there's not a lot of time left to make a significant change of course.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

The advertising of the Cornwall network does seem very public sector, very London

Focus solely on price, and now the fares have gone up, don’t even focus on that

There is no individual promotion of any services, like First used to do in the heyday of the Kernow era, it’s just a very functional ‘here’s a network of identical red buses’ work it out yourself

Stuff like the faster 93 route to Newquay last year never got any promo bar appearing in the timetable

Even the new electric buses have interiors very similar to GoAhead London - only the seat moquette is a different pattern of blue!

Another commercial service that has flown completely under the radar is route 2. Previously only a couple of return journeys daily Mon-Fri primarily for Mullion school, as of 24 July it's now running every 30 minutes between Alverton Estate and Marazion Mon-Sat. However the expanded service has only appeared today on the TfC / GCB website and Bustimes.

2, 2A - Penzance - Rosudegeon, Ashton, Porthleven - Helston

Go Cornwall Bus

bustimes.org

2 - Penzance to Helston, via Rosudegeon, Ashton and Porthleven | Transport for Cornwall https://share.google/I5nY56zH07aQlO1za

On the website you'd be hard pressed to deduce that it serves Alverton Estate despite the buses displaying it rather than Penzance as the destination.

Putting the strange reluctance to publicise the route aside it's actually a sound initiative. It fills the void left at Marazion by First withdrawing the Coaster - a bus every 65 min on the U4 during the summer simply doesn't cut the mustard. Plus it gives the good people of Alverton Estate an alternative from the crammed Sprinters on the M6. I wish the service well, although looking on Bustimes it does seem to be struggling in Penzance's notoriously awful summer traffic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

It can be a bit patchy. GSW isn't to the same level as Go South Coast or B&H, but it's better than East Anglia.

Oxford, including Thames Travel and Carousel, have been doing some excellent stuff. Even East Anglia have been getting their act together and as well as producing timetable books have produced a very nice leaflet for the Clacton Breeze. I won't post it here as it's a bit OT, but it gives an idea of what GCB could have done for the 7/7A. Yes, it's bland red closed-top buses, but the route is fantastically scenic - it just needs public awareness.

Thank you for that. See what you mean - certainly a good 6 dedicated vehicles with a few peak hour gaps in the morning, but a full compliment in the afternoon. Will or can First respond?

I doubt if First locally are in any financial position to respond - it would need backing from higher up the chain.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another commercial service that has flown completely under the radar is route 2. Previously only a couple of return journeys daily Mon-Fri primarily for Mullion school, as of 24 July it's now running every 30 minutes between Alverton Estate and Marazion Mon-Sat. However the expanded service has only appeared today on the TfC / GCB website and Bustimes.

That is an interesting development. It's looking more like a full on assault on First's best routes.

Oxford, including Thames Travel and Carousel, have been doing some excellent stuff. Even East Anglia have been getting their act together and as well as producing timetable books have produced a very nice leaflet for the Clacton Breeze. I won't post it here as it's a bit OT, but it gives an idea of what GCB could have done for the 7/7A. Yes, it's bland red closed-top buses, but the route is fantastically scenic - it just needs public awareness

Again, I'd still say patchy. Oxford is great, whilst Carousel is much improved. As for East Anglia... timetable books are all very nice. I was up in Norfolk 10 days ago and yes, the buses did have both Norwich and Breckland timetable booklets on there. However, the fleet is really quite mature and there was little to no other marketing, internally or externally, and vehicles that were there last year in London red or GNW grey are still running around in those "as acquired" colours.

The Essex fleet has just received five ex Norfolk e400s (cascaded after KB lost the Norwich P&R work) and those have been repainted in the new Konectbus livery and route branded. Otherwise, the Essex fleet has long been a dumping ground. The ex Brighton fleet Scanias may be stop gaps but they are appalling, inside and out.

I find Go South West... ok. Not bad, not spectacular, just fine.

I doubt if First locally are in any financial position to respond - it would need backing from higher up the chain.

That would obviously be the case. In the days of Fearnley, they were prepared to stand their ground but I think the spirit is less strong these days under Janette Bell.

The council occasionally mentions franchising, but usually as a threat to incumbent operators. However, who knows? The government are probably keen to experiment with a rural area,

To be fair, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough is already further down the tracks on that one.

 

[Goldfish62]

I find Go South West... ok. Not bad, not spectacular, just fine.

I agree.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Having just been in Cornwall for roughly 10 or so days and only using public transport, I have some observations regarding GCB.

- Firstly, the 7/7A was well used when I was onboard, despite mentions of poor promotion upthread, with the top deck almost full. There were mixed feelings onboard though, some were happy that GCB had stepped in to offer a replacement for the Lands End Coaster, some were sad that the route no longer featured open-top buses. Drivers were mentioning how they're hoping the service frequency will be increased next summer.

- Automatic onboard announcements were not working on GCB services I used, this was the case both down in St Ives, and further north in the Bude area. There were screens installed on these buses, yet all these displayed were recruitment adverts and the Plymouth City Bus logo.

- If we're going to talk about poorly promoted services, I'd look no further than Bude's Park & Ride service 130. No promotion for it, except onboard the buses themselves! Whilst traffic queued up into Bude, bus after bus arrived empty. I must've seen at least 10 buses over two days, with no more than 20 people onboard total! Can't see it returning next year if it continues like this! I never knew it existed until arriving in Bude!

- As a user of the 95 for many years now, I felt like reliability had increased on the service, possibly for the first time ever. That was, however, until last Friday. As the driver said to everyone, "It was all going so well!" as the bus pulled over into a layby just under 2 miles away from the A39 after Crackington Haven heading towards Bude, leaking coolant following a burst tube. The result was the 8 or so people onboard having to wait almost 2 hours for a mechanic to arrive and fix the problem (the fix itself is rather simple), a replacement bus arrived just minutes after the bus (2435) was fixed and ready-to-go. Bearing in mind this happened at 8am and lasted until around 10am! I, along with 4 others, missed the connection onto Stagecoach's 6 down to Okehampton, 3 of those had train tickets to London from Exeter, trains they wouldn't make, as the 6 only runs every 3 hours! The 95 is one of those routes which the reliability will always remain poor, no matter the operator. The narrow roads, and at this time of year, busy traffic and large caravans, make the route a nightmare to drive, huge respect to those who do!

 

[Goldfish62]

Having just been in Cornwall for roughly 10 or so days and only using public transport, I have some observations regarding GCB.

- Firstly, the 7/7A was well used when I was onboard, despite mentions of poor promotion upthread, with the top deck almost full. There were mixed feelings onboard though, some were happy that GCB had stepped in to offer a replacement for the Lands End Coaster, some were sad that the route no longer featured open-top buses. Drivers were mentioning how they're hoping the service frequency will be increased next summer.

That's great that loadings are so good. Just think what could be done with more marketing and open toppers! It would be good if the operating period next year could be extended either side of the school hols.

- Automatic onboard announcements were not working on GCB services I used, this was the case both down in St Ives, and further north in the Bude area. There were screens installed on these buses, yet all these displayed were recruitment adverts and the Plymouth City Bus logo.

Cornwall is the home of non-compliance with the PSV Accessible Information Regulations. First is just the same as GoAhead. The Mousehole Sprinters, which incredibly did not come with the equipment fitted, had it retrofitted over a year ago now, but the screens just show a test page.

All buses which entered service after 1st October 2019 should have had the equipment fully operational from October 2024 so there's a lot of non-compliance out there.

 

[Mollman]

That's great that loadings are so good. Just think what could be done with more marketing and open toppers! It would be good if the operating period next year could be extended either side of the school hols.

Cornwall is the home of non-compliance with the PSV Accessible Information Regulations. First is just the same as GoAhead. The Mousehole Sprinters, which incredibly did not come with the equipment fitted, had it retrofitted over a year ago now, but the screens just show a test page.

All buses which entered service after 1st October 2019 should have had the equipment fully operational from October 2024 so there's a lot of non-compliance out there.

A number of operators I know are struggling to get the equipment delivered and fitted

 

[83G/84D]

Regards the 41 I note the routing in Camborne towards Treswithian is via Cross Street! As far as I can recall no buses have used this route since the Grenville days, apart from maybe an odd occasion.
This road is not ideal for buses with cars parked on one side and properties on the other side with a few bay windows and a narrow pavement. The stop at the bottom that Grenville used is long gone and if reintroduced would cause long queues as there is car parking spaces on one side not allowing cars to overtake.
A better route would be via South Terrace (bus stop by the Community Centre) and Basset Road.

It would be interesting to see how buses manage to navigate Cross Street.

 

[Goldfish62]

A number of operators I know are struggling to get the equipment delivered and fitted

To my mind the timescales are ridiculously short hence why I understand that the DVSA are not currently enforcing. However, in the Cornwall case both operators have buses with the equipment installed and connected - just not functioning!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2025 ==

Regards the 41 I note the routing in Camborne towards Treswithian is via Cross Street! As far as I can recall no buses have used this route since the Grenville days, apart from maybe an odd occasion.
This road is not ideal for buses with cars parked on one side and properties on the other side with a few bay windows and a narrow pavement. The stop at the bottom that Grenville used is long gone and if reintroduced would cause long queues as there is car parking spaces on one side not allowing cars to overtake.
A better route would be via South Terrace (bus stop by the Community Centre) and Basset Road.

It would be interesting to see how buses manage to navigate Cross Street.

Yes, I noticed that - and on the map on Bustimes it indeed shows the Cross Street stop!.

Also they're not serving the bus station towards Treswithian. I guess this may be due to insufficient departure slots, or running time issues that would have meant an extra bus being required.

Route 32 is now on Bustimes.org

32 - Falmouth - Truro - Truro College

Go Cornwall Bus

bustimes.org

Broadly an hourly service Mon-Sat between Truro bus station and Falmouth with a different routing through Penryn to the U1. On college days two AM journey are run to Truro Collage and two PM journeys from the college. Also on college days there's a whopping great gap of 140 min in the afternoon from Falmouth.

So of the new "competing" services only the 41 serves the college outside of the standard college start and finish times. And of course the 2 and 86 don't serve the college at all.

 

[farwest]

OTS have very good onboard announcements. Very clear and not verbose. I am sure many years ago many First Kernow buses had the announcements working.

 

[I'm here now]

OTS have very good onboard announcements. Very clear and not verbose. I am sure many years ago many First Kernow buses had the announcements working.

Must have been on the ancient stock as the T1/2 lot never had it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2025 ==

A number of operators I know are struggling to get the equipment delivered and fitted

Quite a lot of buses have it (GCB) but why are none using it?

 

[Cesarcollie]

Must have been on the ancient stock as the T1/2 lot never had it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2025 ==


Quite a lot of buses have it (GCB) but why are none using it?

Probably because everything that goes into making the systems work is really complicated and time-consuming too! Installation is (almost) the easy bit.

 

[JKP]

Must have been on the ancient stock as the T1/2 lot never had it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2025 ==


Quite a lot of buses have it (GCB) but why are none using it?

Finding a suitable Cornish speaker perhaps?

 

[Goldfish62]

Finding a suitable Cornish speaker perhaps?

 

[Andyh82]

The PDF for the new improved service 2 is now on the TFC website

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/gocornwallbus/TFCN/2-timetable-20250901-e1ad4c6e.pdf

Hourly from Penzance to Helston with an additional hourly service on top Penzance to Goldsithney.

Goldsithney and Marazion will now be awash with buses, are there enough passengers for 2 buses an hour from Helston to Penzance (with the U4)

Looks to be a 3 bus PVR but only 1 bus at school times, the bus which does the 2A trips to Mullion School, the other two buses must interwork with schools

 

[co-tr-paul]

It would be very nice if the first Saturday Helston to PZ was sane as weekday service. And yes. 2 per hour would actually encourage more usage especially Helston to Porthleven.

 

[Goldfish62]

The PDF for the new improved service 2 is now on the TFC website

https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/gocornwallbus/TFCN/2-timetable-20250901-e1ad4c6e.pdf

Hourly from Penzance to Helston with an additional hourly service on top Penzance to Goldsithney.

Goldsithney and Marazion will now be awash with buses, are there enough passengers for 2 buses an hour from Helston to Penzance (with the U4)

Looks to be a 3 bus PVR but only 1 bus at school times, the bus which does the 2A trips to Mullion School, the other two buses must interwork with schools

I'm losing track of what's happening with the 2!

Since July it's been running 2 buses per hour between Alverton Estate and Marazion with a handful of journeys projected to/from Helston. Publicity has effectively been zero with no PDF produced. Clearly thus is now being superceded in September. As well as the changes already noted the Alverton - Penzance bus station section is withdrawn.

First left themselves wide open with the withdrawal of the Land's End Coaster. Leaving just an hourly service on the U4 between Penzance and Marazion during the summer months was always going to be inadequate.

However, 2 buses per hour between Helston and Penzance during the winter is probably over-bussing. Together with the other predatory service changes this really does point to a concerted effort by GoAhead to get First out of Cornwall.

 

[I'm here now]

It would be very nice if the first Saturday Helston to PZ was sane as weekday service. And yes. 2 per hour would actually encourage more usage especially Helston to Porthleven.

Or anywhere to Helston as the connections are quite poor!

 

[farwest]

I think next summer if the 7/7A went from Penzance to St.Ives via Porthcurno, Lands end and Sennen it could do very well with publicity.

 

[YorkRailFan]

I think next summer if the 7/7A went from Penzance to St.Ives via Porthcurno, Lands end and Sennen it could do very well with publicity.

Depends what First does with the 1/1A next summer. The obvious way to garner publicity would be for GCB to use open-top buses on the 7/7A.

 

[I'm here now]

I think next summer if the 7/7A went from Penzance to St.Ives via Porthcurno, Lands end and Sennen it could do very well with publicity.

And with an hourly service…

 

[Andyh82]

Depends what First does with the 1/1A next summer. The obvious way to garner publicity would be for GCB to use open-top buses on the 7/7A.

That’s a big leep though

At the moment it’s minimal effort minimal cost, just using some school deckers that would otherwise be parked up all summer

A far cry from deploying special vehicles, and lots of extra cost, like First will know.

There is however a chance you could get a more extensive closed top service next year, as they will have many more deckers spare from the Truro College services