Go Cornwall Bus

[Goldfish62]

For Cornwall tickets that is a one third increase for monthly tickets from £90 for a monthly ticket to £120 for a 4-weekly ticket and the five days of tickets its a 50% increase from £25 to £37.50. For town tickets, 5 days increase from £14 to £22.50 (61%).

They may seem small changes but these are huge, particularly if the £2 fare is withdrawn.

There was also a poorly publicised fares rise less than 6 months ago. Prior to that the Day Town Zone ticket was £2.50 and the Cornwall Day ticket was £5. With the next rises that's a 60% and 50% rise respectively in less than six months.

I think the main issue is that the funding for the fares pilot has or is about to run out. If the £2 fare cap is not extended expect some eye-watering single and return fare rises.

 

[richw]

I think the main issue is that the funding for the fares pilot has or is about to run out. If the £2 fare cap is not extended expect some eye-watering single and return fare rises.

The fares pilot funding has ended I believe.

I haven’t driven First service buses in Cornwall since the first lockdown but there was some singles at £6 and returns at £9 back then before the pilot launched. A kernow day ticket was £15 back then too!

 

[Bill Badger]

For Cornwall tickets that is a one third increase for monthly tickets from £90 for a monthly ticket to £120 for a 4-weekly ticket and the five days of tickets its a 50% increase from £25 to £37.50. For town tickets, 5 days increase from £14 to £22.50 (61%).

They may seem small changes but these are huge, particularly if the £2 fare is withdrawn.

As bundles are available until Saturday I shall be stocking up, as the tickets are still valid for 12 months..... Just need to estimate how many I need.

Also the Family Weekly is still available on First App for £30, which was the summer holiday discount. Children don't seem to be a prerequisite, so works out at £15 each for 2 adults, which will just be 2 days travel from next week.

 

[Kieanh4]

I'm not sure if it has been pointed out but 2423 has been fitted with a screen, a dot matrix screen, and speakers. Although neither appear to display anything apart from diagnostics maybe next stop indicators are coming to go cornwall soon

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm not sure if it has been pointed out but 2423 has been fitted with a screen, a dot matrix screen, and speakers. Although neither appear to display anything apart from diagnostics maybe next stop indicators are coming to go cornwall soon

Legal requirement. All buses that entered service after 1st October 2019 must have fully operational next stop audio-visual announcements as from 1st October 2024, ie Tuesday.

From next year this extends to 2014 buses and a year or two after that to all buses built post-1973 used on scheduled services.

Clearly there are going to a lot of non-compliant buses from Tuesday, but I believe that the DVSA is going to light-touch with enforcement initially.

 

[LAIRA]

I'm not sure if it has been pointed out but 2423 has been fitted with a screen, a dot matrix screen, and speakers. Although neither appear to display anything apart from diagnostics maybe next stop indicators are coming to go cornwall soon

2019 also fitted but not working, operating the 25 in Plymouth today

 

[richw]

Legal requirement. All buses that entered service after 1st October 2019 must have fully operational next stop audio-visual announcements as from 1st October 2024, ie Tuesday.

From next year this extends to 2014 buses and a year or two after that to all buses built post-1973 used on scheduled services.

Clearly there are going to a lot of non-compliant buses from Tuesday, but I believe that the DVSA is going to light-touch with enforcement initially.

According to a friend in an office job at go southwest when I spoke to him a few weeks ago, nearly all vehicles that entered service after 2019 had been fitted and ready to go with the required equipment.

First Kernow’s 18 plate enviros and 68 plate solos were fitted with the equipment from new, so go Cornwalls ex First vehicles should just need programming (and reconnecting, as if I remember correctly they were still displaying First stuff long after transfer, and were unplugged as a result )

 

[DaveHarries]

It seems that routes 11, 11S and 56 are to loose their current Padstow terminus: this has appeared on the website of GoCornwallBus:

We are deeply concerned by Padstow Town Council's decision to evict buses from the Railway Car Park. This move, which is disproportionate in its severity, will have a significant impact on thousands of passengers who rely on our services daily. By removing access to the car park, passengers will now face the challenge of walking up and down a steep hill, which will undoubtedly cause unnecessary hardship, particularly for those with mobility issues, the elderly, and families.

That is the opening paragraph: see https://www.gocornwallbus.co.uk/padstow-railway-car-park-eviction for the rest of the statement.

Padstow Town Council have put out a statement of which the beginning is this: I have only quoted the opening sentence but it wouldn't unfurl and the full statement is at https://padstow-tc.gov.uk/2024/10/railway-car-park-bus-stop-padstow/

Padstow Town Council can confirm that from the 18 November 2024 the bus stop on the Town Council’s Railway Car Park will no longer be operational for reasons of health and safety and is expected to be removed w/c 18 November 2024.

So where would the 11, 11S and 56 terminate? I don't know Padstow well but a look on Google Maps doesn't exactly give cause for optimism in terms of suitable alternative terminus points. Perhaps GCB should run the 11 as Wadebridge - Plymouth only, with some provision for Padstow at peak times) but otherwise have Service 56 on an hourly frequency as Wadebridge to Newquay, via. St. Issey, Padstow Town Centre and then as much as possible of the current Service 56 with the exception of Padstow Quay?

Dave

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's a while since I've been to Padstow but I can't work out what the council are upset about.

Chairman Councillor O’Keefe commented “For more than 2 years (since June 2022) we [PTC] have been raising concerns with Cornwall Council and bus operators, Go Cornwall and First Kernow to address a number of health and safety concerns. Anyone who knows the area will have witnessed firsthand the increasingly unsafe and unmanageable situation that the bus stop presents.”

Only thing I can assume is that the buses block the exit whilst they're stopped?

 

[DaveHarries]

Only thing I can assume is that the buses block the exit whilst they're stopped?

I have only once ever used that terminus but from what I remember the buses didn't have problems passing each other.

Dave

 

[Goldfish62]

Padstow Town Council have put out a statement of which the beginning is this: I have only quoted the opening sentence but it wouldn't unfurl and the full statement is at https://padstow-tc.gov.uk/2024/10/railway-car-park-bus-stop-padstow/

From the above statement:

Indeed, we learnt recently that, if submitted within a specific timeframe, most routes are agreed by the Transport Commissioner without any consultation at all.”

So it's only taken them 38 years to learn this...

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Let me guess - they want to put more car parking spaces in its place?

 

[Goldfish62]

Let me guess - they want to put more car parking spaces in its place?

Yes, more room for Chelsea tractors. The plebs using buses can go away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let me guess - they want to put more car parking spaces in its place?

It's a small stop at the side of the entrance/exit road for the car park. I can see why it might cause safety issues if multiple buses occupy it at once and people are milling around. But surely a better solution would be to give up some parking spaces and create a proper small bus station on the car park itself?

Here's where it is: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.538...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
(Google Maps Streetview link showing said bus stop)

Looking at the layout, perhaps the Council staff parking area on the other side would be a better location?

 

[Goldfish62]

It's a small stop at the side of the entrance/exit road for the car park. I can see why it might cause safety issues if multiple buses occupy it at once and people are milling around. But surely a better solution would be to give up some parking spaces and create a proper small bus station on the car park itself?

That's most likely the stumbling block.

 

[richw]

For those unfamiliar this is the bus stop in padstow pictured in 2018. To turn around the bus laps the perimeter of the car park. Whilst stopped at the stop the bus blocks the outbound traffic lane so cars are required to give way to each other passing the bus.

The proposed alternative is on the ringroad about 10 mins walk (for a relatively fit person) up a steep hill.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's most likely the stumbling block.

The Council staff giving up their parking spaces (opposite the bus stop) and instead simply getting permits for the main car park would appear to be a very easy solution, the stop could be moved to that side or the road simply slewed over and the bus stop moved along slightly so the bus doesn't block it.

 

[Andyh82]

For those unfamiliar this is the bus stop in padstow pictured in 2018. To turn around the bus laps the perimeter of the car park. Whilst stopped at the stop the bus blocks the outbound traffic lane so cars are required to give way to each other passing the bus.

The proposed alternative is on the ringroad about 10 mins walk (for a relatively fit person) up a steep hill.

So it isn’t just the terminus that is going, it’s also the stop on the way into town, that many people often get off at (it’s probably closer to the main harbour area)

People won’t even think they’ve arrived in Padstow if the terminus is all the way up on the main road

I don’t know if it still runs, but I presume the Padstow Park & Ride would therefore have to be abandoned, as the bus would only take you one bus stop along the road!

 

[richw]

The new proposed terminus is roughly where I’ve dropped this pin on google maps- hopefully it works. Screen shot attached in case it doesn’t or for those unable to access google maps. The morning park and rides used to go along Dennis road instead of the station car park as for some reason wasn’t allowed down the bottom before 10am. Looping round Dennis road would service the stop @Andyh82 mentions, it served that stop, then went along Dennis Road turning right into Sarah’s Lane, coming out at the junction next to Tesco. We used Plaxton president Tridents back then which got through there without issue. I’m sure the 11 used to go through Dennis road and Sarah’s lane too. Western greyhound definitely went that way on their Bodmin parkway to padstow services

https://maps.app.goo.gl/k5wrvnJiWoogEx749?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy

 

[DaveHarries]

For those unfamiliar this is the bus stop in padstow pictured in 2018. To turn around the bus laps the perimeter of the car park. Whilst stopped at the stop the bus blocks the outbound traffic lane so cars are required to give way to each other passing the bus.

I have a copy of the British Railways Past & Present volume for Cornwall (vol. 17) and pages 56-7 are given over to Padstow: one of the present pictures shows a Mercedes 709D minibus from First Western National parked parallel to the parking side of the station building. A proper terminus would indeed be a fine idea: the site indicated by @richw doesn't look great for anyone wanting to get into the shopping area near the harbour.

Dave

 

[richw]

Back in the western greyhound days the Bodmin parkway to padstow and then padstow to Newquay services interworked so there was only one bus at a time in padstow.

 

[embers25]

Back in the western greyhound days the Bodmin parkway to padstow and then padstow to Newquay services interworked so there was only one bus at a time in padstow.

Whilst this is a ridiculous decision, having experienced the stop when a 54, a late Atlantic Coaster, a late 11 and a P&R all arrive at the same time, chaos does ensue with the road being blocked and pedestrians waiting on the road with pushchairs or walking in front of traffic as they get off and run to get on, not to mention those queuing who wait on the road in front of the bus and all over as there isn't enough room for a full bus load which often boards the afternoon coaster. However, the solution is to improve the stop arrangements there (like the small bus station idea suggested), not evict buses to a stop many can't walk from. It will obviously make the council more money from parking which I'm sure is the aim.

How long before more Devon and Cornwall coastal places ban buses from close to their centre. Fowey, Polruan, Porthcurno, Port Isaac and Holywell may all be next. Wonder if Sennen Cove will also try to ban buses given how much chaos they cause crawling up the hill and turning around there. You'd hope the needs of residents would over-ride any thoughts like this, but councilors aren't known for common sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How long before more Devon and Cornwall coastal places ban buses from close to their centre. Fowey, Polruan, Porthcurno, Port Isaac and Holywell may all be next. Wonder if Sennen Cove will also try to ban buses given how much chaos they cause crawling up the hill and turning around there. You'd hope the needs of residents would over-ride any thoughts like this, but councilors aren't known for common sense.

Isn't this an odd case where the Town Council own the parking and so can do that, whereas in most cases (certainly Port Isaac and Mousehole*) the stop is on the road and thus a County Council matter, and the County Council aren't going to ban their own bus contract from their own land?

Could they run a loop of the B3276? It looks tight in places but not impossible with the shortish Enviro200s used, I've certainly seen them squashed through tighter places, and presumably that's what was done before the bypass was built. You would need to remove all the parking from Duke St, though. Of course the County Council and Go Ahead want to make a point...

Alternatively remove the stop at the harbour car park but still use it to turn round before re-entering service at the first on-road stop? I don't think it's the turning that is objected to?

* The arrangement at Mousehole is one of the more risky ones in my observation but short of not serving it at all there doesn't look to be much of a better option!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

At Fowey there has already been an issue at the Safe Harbour and the stroppy landlord.

 

[richw]

Could they run a loop of the B3276? It looks tight in places but not impossible with the shortish Enviro200s used,

We used to run solos on the Christmas festival dates from the park and ride site by looping the b3276, so a small solo can do it.
A town service will be essential with a small bus, maybe a sprinter to shuttle the less able to the bottom.

 

[ChrisC]

How long before more Devon and Cornwall coastal places ban buses from close to their centre. Fowey, Polruan, Porthcurno, Port Isaac and Holywell may all be next. Wonder if Sennen Cove will also try to ban buses given how much chaos they cause crawling up the hill and turning around there. You'd hope the needs of residents would over-ride any thoughts like this, but councilors aren't known for common sense.

One of the main advantages of travelling by bus to destinations of this type is being able to board the bus at the bottom of the hill without having to climb the hill to a highly priced car park. Even when I am on holiday and staying in a hotel I often leave my car in the hotel car park and travel by bus. It saves paying high car park charges and hopefully takes you up and down the inevitable hill to the centre of the location. If the bus is not going to go into the centre I might as well drive there and that’s another car on the road. Councils should be supporting and encouraging the use of public transport, not making them less attractive, especially for less mobile people. Making better provision for space for buses should take priority over a few parking spaces.

 

[DaveHarries]

The arrangement at Mousehole is one of the more risky ones in my observation but short of not serving it at all there doesn't look to be much of a better option!

Perhaps the answer to this is not to use Mousehole as a terminus: I have noticed how tight it looks. Perhaps instead of having two routes through Mousehole the answer would be to have a route running Penzance to Newlyn Bridge, then direct via. Strand and Cliff Road to Mousehole, then up to Paul.

Dave

 

[Goldfish62]

Perhaps the answer to this is not to use Mousehole as a terminus: I have noticed how tight it looks. Perhaps instead of having two routes through Mousehole the answer would be to have a route running Penzance to Newlyn Bridge, then direct via. Strand and Cliff Road to Mousehole, then up to Paul.

Dave

Not feasible. Although Mousehole Lane has been used infrequently in the past it's now inaccessible for buses, even Sprinters, due to indiscriminate parking, as are the back streets around the one-way system in Mousehole.

Mousehole comes up regularly on this thread. No one to my knowledge has highlighted Mousehole Harbour as an issue so best leave it well alone. The Sprinters work well there and have reversing cameras to improve safety.

 

[JKP]

The terminus at Padstow is some distance from the town centre though is all on the flat. I have not been there for many years but if I recall correctly the pavement situation for walking between the old station car park and the town centre is less than ideal as well. Buses used to reverse to sit parallel to the old station building but that was many years ago. My last visit to the town saw me parking at the top of the hill just down from Tesco as there was no room at the old station.

As a matter of interest where do excursion coaches park? They too used to use the car park under discussion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The terminus at Padstow is some distance from the town centre though is all on the flat. I have not been there for many years but if I recall correctly the pavement situation for walking between the old station car park and the town centre is less than ideal as well. Buses used to reverse to sit parallel to the old station building but that was many years ago. My last visit to the town saw me parking at the top of the hill just down from Tesco as there was no room at the old station.

As a matter of interest where do excursion coaches park? They too used to use the car park under discussion.

There is coach parking visible on Google Maps on the bottom car park, it's behind the Council offices.