Go Cornwall Bus

[Rich McLean]

Is he with TfC or PCB?

As above, Operations Manager for GCB/TfC, reporting to MD Go-South West (PCB, Milehouse). PCB has its own Operations Manager.

Go South West overseas GCB/TfC and PCB

 

[MB162435]

I wonder how GCB will cope when Callywith College return, it takes up a lot of drivers and buses and if they are already short of drivers it won't help, I hope TfC services don't suffer further with cancelled services with the East already being a troubled area for TfC

They certainly won't want to mess it up and lose it, with it being one of their most profitable and high profile contracts, and First becoming quite dominant in College/School contracts

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wonder how GCB will cope when Callywith College return, it takes up a lot of drivers and buses and if they are already short of drivers it won't help, I hope TfC services don't suffer further with cancelled services with the East already being a troubled area for TfC

They certainly won't want to mess it up and lose it, with it being one of their most profitable and high profile contracts, and First becoming quite dominant in College/School contracts

Surely most Callywith services are to the East of Bodmin and are not affected by staff shortages in Newquay or Scorrier which are the most problematic areas?

 

[MB162435]

But aren’t most Cally

Surely most Callywith services are to the East of Bodmin and are not affected by staff shortages in Newquay or Scorrier which are the most problematic areas?

Believe it was a mixture of Millhouse, Liskeard and Par depots?

Cally services are starting to branch out further as the college becomes more established, St Austell I think is the furthest West they currently go

 

[jammy36]

As above, Operations Manager for GCB/TfC, reporting to MD Go-South West (PCB, Milehouse). PCB has its own Operations Manager.

Go South West overseas GCB/TfC and PCB

Is Mel's post a new one or was there an existing dedicated Operations Manager for TfC?

 

[Rich McLean]

Is Mel's post a new one or was there an existing dedicated Operations Manager for TfC?

Think it was Brian George overseeing it but unsure on that one. Fgwrich & co may know the answer.

 

[richw]

There is a recruitment drive at Newquay bus station tomorrow. Aiming at unqualified drivers I believe.
45 drivers short, plus 85 agency drivers who’s contract ends on 31/8/20. Many have already accepted their next assignment in the Bristol/Bath area with another operator who shall remain nameless! The rate they are saying they’ve been offered sounds Rather more than normally expected (rate unverified and just what they are saying they’ve been offered) (Unless bus drivers are paid very well in that part of the country)

 

[richw]

most cally drivers don’t do service work, most are semi retired, term time only who solely work to and from cally.

currently drivers are running dead daily from Plymouth to boost numbers. Huge dead miles

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A slight caveat on the miracle thing: if Covid hadn't struck so many more of these deficiencies would have been apparent by now. I've got to say, though, that GCB appears to be running as an operator of two halves, again mostly based on what I read on here. The smaller West Cornwall operation doesn't seem bedevilled with the problems occurring further east, and I've seen no examples of cancellations or excessively early/late runnings down here, even on journeys which might be expected to have few, if any, passengers.

Very true. The Covid reduction in services was indeed fortuitous for both Go Ahead and Cornwall Council in minimising the impact of the start up. At the risk of repeating myself, I don't think it was ever in doubt that PCB would be able to obtain enough compliant vehicles from across the group, even if it meant some quite mature vehicles going into Plymouth to release newer ones. The risk was always about being able to recruit enough drivers especially when it was clear that FK were looking to retain all their workforce. That is two fold - getting enough full stop and then enough of sufficient quality and commitment not to a) have pride in their job as a professional driver, b) have the sense to question things like fuelling to ensure buses and c) have the required technical skills to handle large vehicles on narrow Cornish roads. That was always going to be more pronounced in mid Cornwall. All of that is what we are seeing.

Without doubt, there are areas where PCB will be getting it wrong and have made mistakes. You can see that with the awful Green Flash, the bodge jobs on damage on new vehicles, etc.

However, the fact was that the council made their choice with a timescale best described as challenging. Parallels have been drawn with Arriva in Malta but for me, the greatest parallel was the exercise that Dorset did. Let's do the checklist...

• The awarding of a county wide package to one operator
• Operator had to source a raft of vehicles
• Operator had to open new operating centres dotted across the place to service these tender wins
• Incumbent firms registering lost services commercially
• Very tight timescale - DCC announced in early June for commencement in September
• Vehicles turning up late or not at all

One might have thought that Go Ahead would have learnt from that experience, and also Cornwall Council may have observed what the issues were. I'm sure the then GSC Director (Alex Carter) was probably chuckling when he saw what CC were looking to achieve.

 

[MotCO]

the greatest parallel was the exercise that Dorset did.

That one seems to have passed me by - when was this?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That one seems to have passed me by - when was this?

It was in 2011 - http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2011/09/carter-steps-aside-amid-dorset-contract-crisis/

Go Ahead took on a number of services in their heartland round Blandford but had to move to a new depot to there to accommodate the new work. However, they also won work from First and South West Coaches in areas outside their core geography such as Dorchester, Shaftesbury, Sherborne and Bridport, so requiring the setting up of new depots in Henstridge and Dorchester plus a few outstations. There were lots of schools work but also most of the local services; it was an unholy mess.

As MD, Alex Carter carried the can (scapegoat?) and again, the council sought to shift the blame to anyone but them.

 

[Busaholic]

It was in 2011 - http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2011/09/carter-steps-aside-amid-dorset-contract-crisis/

Go Ahead took on a number of services in their heartland round Blandford but had to move to a new depot to there to accommodate the new work. However, they also won work from First and South West Coaches in areas outside their core geography such as Dorchester, Shaftesbury, Sherborne and Bridport, so requiring the setting up of new depots in Henstridge and Dorchester plus a few outstations. There were lots of schools work but also most of the local services; it was an unholy mess.

As MD, Alex Carter carried the can (scapegoat?) and again, the council sought to shift the blame to anyone but them.

I only know what I read on here about all that, plus in 'Buses' and trade press, but the parallels are quite marked, and thank you for reminding us of them. Was nobody at DafT or Cornwall Council aware of all this and, if not, why not? Due diligence and all that, ha ha. With the (mostly. justified) focus on the pandemic and the country's increasingly febrile but fundamentally futile attempts to play catch-up, the Cornish 'bus revolution' was never going to get much coverage, even at local level. That coverage would certainly have included much about fares, an entirely unresolved matter at present and, so far as I know, for some time hence.

 

[Ian10]

I spent some time on Truro bus station today.
First Kernow - all timetables on a central display supported by departure times on each stand, each bus cleaned internally between journeys, social distancing signs on seats
Go Cornwall - no timetable displays anywhere, no buses cleaned, no signs on seats.
First scored below Go Ahead on the tendering quality questionnaire. How different in reality.

 

[richw]

I spent some time on Truro bus station today.
First Kernow - all timetables on a central display supported by departure times on each stand, each bus cleaned internally between journeys, social distancing signs on seats
Go Cornwall - no timetable displays anywhere, no buses cleaned, no signs on seats.
First scored below Go Ahead on the tendering quality questionnaire. How different in reality.

As a First driver I’m not allowed to load until my bus has been cleaned at Truro.
A passenger bought the St Austell cleaner a box of chocolates to say thank you to him for the fantastic job he does. Passengers are recognising it and see cleanliness as a big thing at the moment.

The Quality isn’t quality as we would define quality, but ticking the councils onerous wish list that adds nothing. One brand etc.

I’m guessing late morning or was it early afternoon! (I was the 1105 and 1405 and 1905 87) it may have been you observing things from the path between the Compton castle and bus station?

 

[Goldfish62]

The Quality isn’t quality as we would define quality, but ticking the councils onerous wish list that adds nothing. One brand etc.

You've hit the nail on the head. The "quality" score is only ever going to be as good as the criteria specified in the tender evaluation that make up the quality element.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You've hit the nail on the head. The "quality" score is only ever going to be as good as the criteria specified in the tender evaluation that make up the quality element.

We both know about quality scores For the uninitiated, it's how well you answer the question rather than the demonstrable quality of your service.

Quality of service is determined separately usually

 

[Goldfish62]

We both know about quality scores For the uninitiated, it's how well you answer the question rather than the demonstrable quality of your service.

Quality of service is determined separately usually

Indeed, you've put it better than me.

I have no idea what constituted the quality element, but if there was latitude on the branding, for example, and FK stated that they would carry TfC vinyls while retaining their own brands, but PCB stated that they would go the all the way and adopt a TfC livery, then PCB would achieve a higher score.

And etc....

I wonder if there was a quality score for bus stop publicity, because PCB have utterly failed in this respect.

 

[MotCO]

Indeed, you've put it better than me.

I have no idea what constituted the quality element, but if there was latitude on the branding, for example, and FK stated that they would carry TfC vinyls while retaining their own brands, but PCB stated that they would go the all the way and adopt a TfC livery, then PCB would achieve a higher score.

And etc....

I wonder if there was a quality score for bus stop publicity, because PCB have utterly failed in this respect.

To some extent, it depends what was actually written into the contract. The Invitation to Tender and the Contract can say different things. Unless the Contract says that timetables must be displayed at all bus stops at all times, then there is no come-back on PCB. Indeed, it would probably be difficult to display timetables at all times due to vandalism, temporary Covid timetables, etc., so there may be some leeway in the Contract which PCB may be exploiting.

 

[Goldfish62]

To some extent, it depends what was actually written into the contract. The Invitation to Tender and the Contract can say different things. Unless the Contract says that timetables must be displayed at all bus stops at all times, then there is no come-back on PCB. Indeed, it would probably be difficult to display timetables at all times due to vandalism, temporary Covid timetables, etc., so there may be some leeway in the Contract which PCB may be exploiting.

The obvious way to tackle that one is by having current timetables and flags at every stop as a default condition and then leaving it up to the contractor to justify exceptions. Otherwise you may as well not have any contractual conditions as there'll always be occasional legitimate reasons why they can't be met.

I'd have thought that good bus stop Information would be foremost as a quality element.

 

[Busaholic]

You've hit the nail on the head. The "quality" score is only ever going to be as good as the criteria specified in the tender evaluation that make up the quality element.

The word 'QUALITY' in this context is as meaningless as the word 'CARE' in the wider world, where the most uncaring, unsympathetic and costcutting organisation or individual is lumped in with true saints to help demean what the latter achieve. It's a weasel word.

 

[MB162435]

TfC and PCB to become brands of Go South West

https://twitter.com/TheGoAheadGroup/status/1288860243926163457?s=19

 

[MotCO]

TfC and PCB to become brands of Go South West

https://twitter.com/TheGoAheadGroup/status/1288860243926163457?s=19

In fairness, it didn't say TfC will be a brand of Go South West, just that there would be two brands, one for Cornwall and one for Plymouth, presumably to match the new Operational Director structure. Isn't TfC a brand of Cornwall CC?

 

[MB162435]

In fairness, it didn't say TfC will be a brand of Go South West, just that there would be two brands, one for Cornwall and one for Plymouth, presumably to match the new Operational Director structure. Isn't TfC a brand of Cornwall CC?

Believe so, Council does own it if I remember correctly?

So GCB and PCB to become brands of GSW then

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

TfC and PCB to become brands of Go South West

https://twitter.com/TheGoAheadGroup/status/1288860243926163457?s=19

It looks like it's Go South West being comprised of Go Cornwall Bus and Plymouth Citybus

 

[MB162435]

It looks like it's Go South West being comprised of Go Cornwall Bus and Plymouth Citybus

Reading Mark's tweet and Go-aheads it does look that way, assume that as the subcontractors registered their services themselves and not Go-ahead, their services would be excluded from the South West division

 

[richw]

according to The council TFC is a partnership of all their bus partners lead by themselves.

according to the website it’s part of GoAhead.

 

[Busaholic]

Believe so, Council does own it if I remember correctly?

So GCB and PCB to become brands of GSW then

I'm not at all sure anyone 'owns' Transport for Cornwall, though its branding may be registered in some way. Cornwall Council are remarkably coy about the subject in all the web pages I can access now, although funding sources are named as Cornwall Council, Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership and H.M. Government. I understand Plymouth City Council may have been added in relation to some services into that city from S.E. Cornwall.

From other webpages Go Ahead gives the impression that Transport for Cornwall is one of their brands, if not actually a company name registered by them. If they have been allowed to register a company in that name (whether limited liability or not) my antennae suggest this could be a bone of contention in time, but, as far as I know, they haven't and (I hope) haven't tried to.

 

[MB162435]

I'm not at all sure anyone 'owns' Transport for Cornwall, though its branding may be registered in some way. Cornwall Council are remarkably coy about the subject in all the web pages I can access now, although funding sources are named as Cornwall Council, Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership and H.M. Government. I understand Plymouth City Council may have been added in relation to some services into that city from S.E. Cornwall.

From other webpages Go Ahead gives the impression that Transport for Cornwall is one of their brands, if not actually a company name registered by them. If they have been allowed to register a company in that name (whether limited liability or not) my antennae suggest this could be a bone of contention in time, but, as far as I know, they haven't and (I hope) haven't tried to.

Does seem to be a bit of a grey area, I myself find it quite confusing and probably will still find it so in 8 years time!

As you say the council hasn't given much away about TfC other than what Go-Aheads intentions are, I would of thought out of everyone the Council would have the greatest claim to 'own' it due to the winning operator having to use it, no point in Go-Ahead trying to own it as in 8 years it might be useless to them

Maybe we will find out by 2028?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not at all sure anyone 'owns' Transport for Cornwall, though its branding may be registered in some way. Cornwall Council are remarkably coy about the subject in all the web pages I can access now, although funding sources are named as Cornwall Council, Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership and H.M. Government. I understand Plymouth City Council may have been added in relation to some services into that city from S.E. Cornwall.

From other webpages Go Ahead gives the impression that Transport for Cornwall is one of their brands, if not actually a company name registered by them. If they have been allowed to register a company in that name (whether limited liability or not) my antennae suggest this could be a bone of contention in time, but, as far as I know, they haven't and (I hope) haven't tried to.

The website https://www.transportforcornwall.co.uk/our-partners/go-cornwall-bus-copy/ says

"Cornwall Council recently awarded an 8-year contract to Go Cornwall Bus (Plymouth Citybus/Go-Ahead) to operate the whole of the county supported local bus network. This equates to around half of all bus journeys made in Cornwall. First Kernow will continue to operate commercially within the county.

Services under contract to Cornwall Council will be branded as Transport for Cornwall. Many bus services previously operated by First Kernow will be run by Transport for Cornwall. Go Cornwall Bus will be working with three local operators, namely Hopley’s Coaches, OTS of Falmouth and Summercourt Travel Ltd, to provide the whole supported bus network.

Transport for Cornwall is the name of the partnership between Cornwall Council, Go Cornwall Bus and other local public transport providers working towards the delivery of the vision for a high-quality, integrated and customer-focused public transport network."

 

[Ian10]

The Transport for Cornwall website clearly shows that ’we are part of the Go Ahead group’ with a registered address in Newcastle. Not, of course, tru.