GN Class 717

[SteveOfTheStow]

Don't think Tfl have got the money to do any major improvements to the NCL. Aren't they struggling to maintain what they've got right now on their current budget.

Yeah..... I'm hoping the sheer state of the NCL will shame them into finding the money somehow. But the earliest TfL would get the NCL is 2021 anyway, in the next Mayoral administration when Mr Khan (it's basically his to lose) puts the fares up (because he'll have no choice).

 

[rebmcr]

Don't think Tfl have got the money to do any major improvements to the NCL. Aren't they struggling to maintain what they've got right now on their current budget.

Maintenance isn't a problem, but upgrades are proving tricky.

 

[choochoochoo]

Will the onboard wifi will work once a 717 enters the NCL ?

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

Will the onboard wifi will work once a 717 enters the NCL ?

Everything I've read says no

 

[Class315]

717007 made another test run to/from Hornsey to Peterborough last night; It moved from the Siemens depot to Hornsby TSC, what was quite noticeable was that the CIS screens on the side of the train listed Alex. Palace from what I could make out. After I got off my train in the yard.

 

[jon0844]

Will the onboard wifi will work once a 717 enters the NCL ?

Sure it will work. You'll connect to the access point just fine. You just won't connect to the Internet.

(that would be a clever politician answer!)

 

[Aictos]

Sure it will work. You'll connect to the access point just fine. You just won't connect to the Internet.

(that would be a clever politician answer!)

However it is possible to for wifi to work underground as proven by the Germans in Berlin and Hamburg as you can use the U Bahn AND still have a full mobile signal, the only reason why TfL don't allow mobiles or wifi to work on their services in the tunnels is 9/11 because they have a fear that if they allow this that it will allow a terror attack to happen.

It's just a pity that London is still so backwards when it comes to something as simple as this!

 

[Mikey C]

However it is possible to for wifi to work underground as proven by the Germans in Berlin and Hamburg as you can use the U Bahn AND still have a full mobile signal, the only reason why TfL don't allow mobiles or wifi to work on their services in the tunnels is 9/11 because they have a fear that if they allow this that it will allow a terror attack to happen.

It's just a pity that London is still so backwards when it comes to something as simple as this!

Most people in London are quite happy that mobiles don't work underground!

Can you imagine the people trying to make calls in the tunnels and shouting above the racket of the trains...

 

[bluegoblin7]

However it is possible to for wifi to work underground as proven by the Germans in Berlin and Hamburg as you can use the U Bahn AND still have a full mobile signal, the only reason why TfL don't allow mobiles or wifi to work on their services in the tunnels is 9/11 because they have a fear that if they allow this that it will allow a terror attack to happen.

It's just a pity that London is still so backwards when it comes to something as simple as this!

Nonsense. It doesn't happen because no one (currently) is willing to pay for it. There have been numerous proposals (and a trial or two) over the last few years and the simple fact is there's no money, rendering it not a priority.

 

[jon0844]

I thought mobile coverage was now happening on the underground? There's certainly no technical reason to prevent it. It's a mix of cost and politics.

It's beyond what GTR can do in this instance.

 

[Malcolmffc]

However it is possible to for wifi to work underground as proven by the Germans in Berlin and Hamburg as you can use the U Bahn AND still have a full mobile signal, the only reason why TfL don't allow mobiles or wifi to work on their services in the tunnels is 9/11 because they have a fear that if they allow this that it will allow a terror attack to happen.

It's just a pity that London is still so backwards when it comes to something as simple as this!

Utter nonsense.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....he-tube-moves-a-step-closer-a3774561.html?amp

 

[Aictos]

Utter nonsense.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/techandgadgets/4g-coverage-on-the-tube-moves-a-step-closer-a3774561.html?amp

It wasn't nonsense a few years ago as that was the reason I got given by London Underground themselves as to 4G on the tube, I believe it when I see it!

 

[samuelmorris]

As far as I know it's part of the Elizabeth line fit out is it not?
No reason why not and I don't think the terrorism one is valid because you could just do the same from a station if you were so inclined, it all just comes down to cost.

 

[janahan]

Actually there are technical reasons why they have not yet been able to put mobile coverage in the Tubes (including the NCL, which is just a larger tube).

1. lack of space available for the antenas and equipement, and wiring (to carry power and signals) in an already crowded environment (the train vehicles are quite a sung fit inside) Equipment may also require cooling.
2. very bendy tunnels, affecting the straight line of sight required for optimal signal, therefore requiring more base stations in the tunnels, more expensive/require more space see point 1
3. Signals penetrating through the individual carraiges, may be difficult on older carraiges, where the metal bodies may shield the signals (add to the smaller windows)
4. Metal (specifically iron/steel) lined tunnels, causing havoc to the signal.
   
5. requiring all service providers to work together, so that one base station can service all providers, we dont have enough space int he tunnels to duplicate equipment for each provider. This is both a technical and 'business political' issue
   
6. with LTE (and to some extent 3G) each provider uses different frequency bands, so again need to ensure all devices can work with the common frequency.

The only reliable way to get this to work is to put the trancieving equipment into the train carraige itself in the form of Pico transmitters, which then connect via the train/rail interface or some other means to allow the signal to go out. however such equipment is still not cheap, and would need to be in more than one carraige of a MU and considering that space is already premium on a tube carraige.

Therefore although a possible dream of many providers, i think realistically it woudl be more technically possible to have WiFi instead on the tube carraiges. And with soem providers already providing seamless WiFi calling (such as EE), that might be suffiecient enough (I already am able to recieve calls and text messages deep underground in stations thanks to EE and wifi at most tube stations).

 

[sprunt]

I hope there isn't ever mobile coverage in the NCL. The best bit of my commute in the morning is when all the people conveying Very Important Information that couldn't possibly wait until they're in their offices in 20 minutes time have to shut up after Drayton Park.

 

[choochoochoo]

I hope there isn't ever mobile coverage in the NCL. The best bit of my commute in the morning is when all the people conveying Very Important Information that couldn't possibly wait until they're in their offices in 20 minutes time have to shut up after Drayton Park.

Don't you mean highbury and islington?

Incredibly, I've seen some people still get mobile signal down that far (and it's definitely not TfL wifi from the adjacent platform)

 

[jon0844]

Don't you mean highbury and islington?

Incredibly, I've seen some people still get mobile signal down that far (and it's definitely not TfL wifi from the adjacent platform)

Yes, you can retain signal until Highbury and Islington a lot of the time.

 

[sprunt]

True, you can, but they tend to end their conversations with "Anyway, I have to go now as the train's about to go into a tunnel...".

 

[BowesRanger]

Passing this morning seemed like the two units parked up on the west side of the Hornsey Depot, have been moved. Anyone know where they went?

 

[332 > 444]

One is in the yard, one is in the Siemens traincare facility, the west wide you speak of is Ferme Park.

 

[APUK002]

One is in the yard, one is in the Siemens traincare facility, the west wide you speak of is Ferme Park.

Do we still just have 2, or any new deliveries?

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we still just have 2, or any new deliveries?

There have been reports of 717005, 7, 8 & 9 being at Hornsey in another forum.

 

[APUK002]

Ok thanks

 

[swt_passenger]

Ok thanks

The second pair arrived mid July, can’t be long until more get here.

 

[APUK002]

The second pair arrived mid July, can’t be long until more get here.

Yes, can’t wait to try 1,when they due to start and 1st 2 313 go to scrap

 

[Aictos]

Indeed and I hope that GTR will actually do a farewell tour with the very last pair covering London to Biggleswade/Royston and also some non passenger lines as well as the usual routes.

I know C2C did a special with the very last two 357s in their Blue livery which covered everywhere C2C goes which was pretty good even if it was a pair of EMUs with 2+3 seating.

 

[Kite159]

Indeed and I hope that GTR will actually do a farewell tour with the very last pair covering London to Biggleswade/Royston and also some non passenger lines as well as the usual routes.

I know C2C did a special with the very last two 357s in their Blue livery which covered everywhere C2C goes which was pretty good even if it was a pair of EMUs with 2+3 seating.

I would imagine the Branch Line Society will try and do something like a "313 Great Northern Farewell" tour (similar to when the 319s & 442s left the franchise).

But for many it will be an end of an era when the last 313 raises its pantograph at Drayton Park.

 

[Class315]

717009 & 005 where coupled up and moving around between Hornsey Train Servicing centre and the Main facility Building this mid-morning. 009 was at the C/E shunting onto 34 road and into the shed.

 

[Journeyman]

But for many it will be an end of an era when the last 313 raises its pantograph at Drayton Park.

Agreed - they're far from glamorous, but they've served reliably day-in, day-out for a very long time. I think I'll miss them.

 

[Downthelane]

Slow, uncomfortable, dirty, smelly, miserable units that have held back GN for years. Yes we will all be nostalgic when they finally all go but talks of railtours is a bit much?

Most of us miss the 317 and previously the 312 but these provided comfort and speed, the 313/5 units should have been removed 15-20 years ago and passengers at Hertford North in particular can't wait.

GN timings on the slows at present are hampered so much by the 313's that their demise will make everyone's journey quicker.

However I wonder what will become of the 717 in 43 years time?