GN Class 717

[Ethano92]

Isn't all the seating in these longitudinal? Given that, where will the power sockets be located?

My guess is you're talking about the 710s in which case, the USB ports are at car ends where carrieges are connected. People say TFL were forward to the idea of power sockets but I see it as a clear insentive to get people to move down inside the cars. I do currently take to standing in those areas on the s stock, 378s etc so I guess they're trying to encourage more people to stand there.

About the 717s, does it really matter if they're late. There's not as much pressure as say the 710s on the GOBLIN or 345s to Heathrow.

 

[Mikey C]

My guess is you're talking about the 710s in which case, the USB ports are at car ends where carrieges are connected. People say TFL were forward to the idea of power sockets but I see it as a clear insentive to get people to move down inside the cars. I do currently take to standing in those areas on the s stock, 378s etc so I guess they're trying to encourage more people to stand there.

About the 717s, does it really matter if they're late. There's not as much pressure as say the 710s on the GOBLIN or 345s to Heathrow.

The 313s certainly look pretty awful on the outside!

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

The 313s certainly look pretty awful on the outside!

Inside too! I was on one in the morning earlier this year I think; it was absolutely chucking it down inside and one of the seats couldn't be used as it had a drip landing on it coming through the roof Pretty sure it was the panto carriage!

 

[sprunt]

My guess is you're talking about the 710s in which case, the USB ports are at car ends where carrieges are connected.

I did actually mean the 717s - I was mistakenly thinking they had longitudinal seating. Thanks for clearing it up though.

 

[Mordac]

Inside too! I was on one in the morning earlier this year I think; it was absolutely chucking it down inside and one of the seats couldn't be used as it had a drip landing on it coming through the roof Pretty sure it was the panto carriage!

Oh no, it wasn't!

 

[ungreat]

717007 at Peterborough last night

 

[spuddie]

looks so wrong with the all white front, especially as the 700's still have the yellow. I know they don't have to have them anymore but it just doesn't seem right.

 

[Aictos]

Thanks for sharing the photo of 717007 at Platform 2 at Peterborough.

 

[BlyRF]

Just to ask, did that unit that had the fire ever returned to the manufacturer for repairs or is it still in testing?

 

[Fred26]

Just to ask, did that unit that had the fire ever returned to the manufacturer for repairs or is it still in testing?

The unit wasn't on fire. It was a problem with the tripcock which caused a track fire at Moorgate.
As far as I know it's being sorted in the depot.

 

[Aictos]

The unit wasn't on fire. It was a problem with the tripcock which caused a track fire at Moorgate.
As far as I know it's being sorted in the depot.

A trip cock caused the track fire? I wonder how that happened?

 

[rick_suffolk]

I took a trip from moorgate tonight, characterful to say the least. Dingy stations in the ex underground section, the train fans going like the clappers, windows open so the motor sounds were very loud, all sorts if clunking, banging, screeching. What a transformation is about to come, just a pity the stations havent been touched for decades

 

[387star]

I took a trip from moorgate tonight, characterful to say the least. Dingy stations in the ex underground section, the train fans going like the clappers, windows open so the motor sounds were very loud, all sorts if clunking, banging, screeching. What a transformation is about to come, just a pity the stations havent been touched for decades

Indeed. Why is that ? Surely they can be spruced up
Drivers wear dust masks down there . Can't be the most pleasant place to drive trains to

As an aside traditionally the orange bag was a drivers bag ? On the GN and TL side Drivers sometimes carry bags that have a silver reflective material

On the Southern side the latter are more common with the OBS/Conductors

 

[jon0844]

Indeed. Why is that ? Surely they can be spruced up
Drivers wear dust masks down there . Can't be the most pleasant place to drive trains to

As an aside traditionally the orange bag was a drivers bag ? On the GN and TL side Drivers sometimes carry bags that have a silver reflective material

On the Southern side the latter are more common with the OBS/Conductors

Think they're interchangeable. You can get them with handles to drag along too.

 

[Fred26]

Indeed. Why is that ? Surely they can be spruced up
Drivers wear dust masks down there . Can't be the most pleasant place to drive trains to

As an aside traditionally the orange bag was a drivers bag ? On the GN and TL side Drivers sometimes carry bags that have a silver reflective material

On the Southern side the latter are more common with the OBS/Conductors

I feel sorry for the staff that spend 8 hours down there. The drivers, at least, are in and out.

As for the bags, it just depends which bag staff want. There is no specific driver bag.

 

[bramling]

I feel sorry for the staff that spend 8 hours down there. The drivers, at least, are in and out.

It’s nothing compared to parts of London Underground. The 313s have rheostatic braking since new which reduces the amount of dust generated. Something like the Northern Line still had conventional friction braking up until 2000.

 

[Fred26]

It’s nothing compared to parts of London Underground. The 313s have rheostatic braking since new which reduces the amount of dust generated. Something like the Northern Line still had conventional friction braking up until 2000.

Except LU clean their tunnels and NWR don't clean theirs. The NCL is disgustingly filthy. You've only got to run your hand along the surfaces to see that. Also, trains drag dirt through the tunnels. On the NCL dirt and dust from the rest of the line is dumped at Moorgate with nowhere to go. That's the reason some drivers and some platform staff wear masks.
It's also the reason for the comparative large amount of fires at Moorgate. With all the dirt and oil on the track it only takes a spark for a fire to start.

Still, NWR have built a cleaning machine, but it's only designed to do the walls. The whole NCL needs to close for 18 months or so, rip everything our - track, ballast, cables, the lot. Scrub the tunnels clean then put all new infrastructure down there. It'd be like a new line, and with frequent maintenance it could be a pleasant line to use and work on.

 

[Aictos]

Except LU clean their tunnels and NWR don't clean theirs. The NCL is disgustingly filthy. You've only got to run your hand along the surfaces to see that. Also, trains drag dirt through the tunnels. On the NCL dirt and dust from the rest of the line is dumped at Moorgate with nowhere to go. That's the reason some drivers and some platform staff wear masks.
It's also the reason for the comparative large amount of fires at Moorgate. With all the dirt and oil on the track it only takes a spark for a fire to start.

Still, NWR have built a cleaning machine, but it's only designed to do the walls. The whole NCL needs to close for 18 months or so, rip everything our - track, ballast, cables, the lot. Scrub the tunnels clean then put all new infrastructure down there. It'd be like a new line, and with frequent maintenance it could be a pleasant line to use and work on.

You're forgetting one very important factor though... £££ who pays for this route upgrade?

 

[Fred26]

You're forgetting one very important factor though... £££ who pays for this route upgrade?

Indeed.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

Hopefully TfL would if/when they take it over

 

[sprunt]

You're forgetting one very important factor though... £££ who pays for this route upgrade?

And how does everyone get to work in the meantime?

EDIT: Just thinking about this, I suppose the obvious answer is to run as many of the Moorgate services as possible into Kings Cross and let the tube take the strain from there. Does anyone know how much capacity Kings Cross has to handle this?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Except LU clean their tunnels and NWR don't clean theirs. The NCL is disgustingly filthy. You've only got to run your hand along the surfaces to see that. Also, trains drag dirt through the tunnels. On the NCL dirt and dust from the rest of the line is dumped at Moorgate with nowhere to go. That's the reason some drivers and some platform staff wear masks.
It's also the reason for the comparative large amount of fires at Moorgate. With all the dirt and oil on the track it only takes a spark for a fire to start.

Still, NWR have built a cleaning machine, but it's only designed to do the walls. The whole NCL needs to close for 18 months or so, rip everything our - track, ballast, cables, the lot. Scrub the tunnels clean then put all new infrastructure down there. It'd be like a new line, and with frequent maintenance it could be a pleasant line to use and work on.

London Underground are the station managers of both Highbury and Old Street. Why haven't they done any improvements there?

 

[jellybaby]

just a pity the stations havent been touched for decades

They are very slowly doing things to Moorgate.

The Macmillan Cancer Support cross track adverts that had been there for years (decades?) have been removed along with the FCC branded, but branding covered with sticky tape, line maps. The walls have been painted. The tubes in the lamps have been replaced and it is brighter. The platform surface was recovered 2-3 years ago with a non-slip coating of some sort. This morning there are yellow chalk dashed lines on the platform perhaps in preparation for yellow lines to be painted.

Perhaps a spruce up so it doesn't look quite so knackered next to the Crossrail bits that might open later this year?

 

[jellybaby]

Does anyone know how much capacity Kings Cross has to handle this?

I don't think the Northern Line has any capacity for the extra passengers going to, for example, Old Street. Finsbury Park would also see a lot more use and that appears to be more or less at capacity too.

 

[jellybaby]

London Underground are the station managers of both Highbury and Old Street. Why haven't they done any improvements there?

They seem to feel the Great Northern platforms aren't anything to do with them. Even fairly small things like WiFi haven't been installed on the Great Northern platforms.

Meanwhile GTR are installing WiFi above ground where there is mobile signal anyway and saying they can't do anything at places like Old Street as they don't run the station.

 

[Fred26]

And how does everyone get to work in the meantime?

EDIT: Just thinking about this, I suppose the obvious answer is to run as many of the Moorgate services as possible into Kings Cross and let the tube take the strain from there. Does anyone know how much capacity Kings Cross has to handle this?

That's not much of an answer. At the moment the service is liable to fall apart at any moment as the risk of fire is so great. Clean the tunnels and that won't happen. Do what I'm suggesting and it'll be like a new line. It doesn't matter how people get to work - short term inconvenience for massive long term gains.
Of course, it's all pie in the sky. It's not even suggested as an option.

 

[Fred26]

London Underground are the station managers of both Highbury and Old Street. Why haven't they done any improvements there?

They're station managers, yes, but the platforms are NWR/GTR. Same at Moorgate.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

London Underground are the station managers of both Highbury and Old Street. Why haven't they done any improvements there?

TfL say the GN platforms aren't their responsibility.

GN (whichever franchise holder) say that they're TfL stations so they should look after the platforms as they control the access from the surface etc.

Basically both sides saying 'Not my problem, guv'. If TfL got control, then there'd be no one to pass the buck to.

 

[choochoochoo]

Hopefully TfL would if/when they take it over

Don't think Tfl have got the money to do any major improvements to the NCL. Aren't they struggling to maintain what they've got right now on their current budget.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

On doing up the line, I think there are a couple of possibilities.

I can imagine closing one station at a time to do up the platforms, with a temporary wall being constructed to the platform face (as was done at TCR on the Northern and Central lines). In the case of Moorgate, that would mean tipping out at Old Street and trains then going empty to reverse. The track and station tunnel walls are trickier. Lots of weekend closures I guess.

If outright closure is required, make Finsbury Park exit/interchange only from the Tube in peak hours. Drayton Park also exit only in the morning, and as Drayton Park (the road) is quite wide, replacement buses could line up there. Replacement buses go as far as Old St roundabout.
In the evening, buses drop everyone back at Drayton Park (or they get the Tube to Finsbury), and use staff to manage the flow into DP station onto the train (arguably don't allow passengers in until a train arrives and is ready).

Edit: Feeling like a mod should probably split some of these posts out into the Infrastructure forum