GN Cambridge/Peterborough trains stopping pattern

[FenMan]

The Fen Line Users Association is pushing for a Finsbury Park stop to be added to the King's Lynn/Cambridge fasts.

In welcoming the commitment for King's Lynn-Cambridge-King's Cross trains to call at the new Cambridge North station, currently under construction, albeit with timetable development phased in stages and in calling for all Fen Line trains on the route to run non-stop to King's Cross south of Cambridge, our policy is also to "support stops at Finsbury Park (excellent connectivity to the Thameslink Core, the City and the West End) and at any future Cambridge South/Biomedical Campus/Addenbrooke's station."

http://www.flua.org.uk/

 

[TheDavibob]

Slightly tangential question, but is the projected timetable for Cambridge North upon opening known?

I know the eventual plan is for the two GN fasts to stop en route to Ely and the two GN/TL semi-fasts to begin there, but (other than CrossCountry skipping the station) I haven't seen much indication of what GA are intending and how rapidly the GN timetable will take shape.

 

[NSE]

I did think about that and the chances of getting a seat / boarding at Finsbury Park are slim enough now.

St Pancras wouldn't cope if it was like for like with kings cross, but others will change to the core. Someone heading to Victoria may change at Blackfriars (or still use Finsbury Park). Just don't know how many people actually finish their journey at kings cross.

If the price for Farringdon is the same as Moorgate i almost certainly going to use it instead. But looking at the Bedford lines the unloading seems fairly even in the core.

Many Victoria passengers would stay on I imagine. I've always thought Thameslink will reduce passenger numbers at Victoria quite a lot. When I'm going Kings Cross to Victoria, it's so I can get down to Croydon, which the Thameslink service will eliminate the need for a change. Similarly it'll stop at London Bridge where many pax can pick up their SE service. Or change at St P. for a Sevenoaks train and then switch at Bromley South. Of course many still need Victoria, but it'll remove some.

 

[bspahh]

Slightly tangential question, but is the projected timetable for Cambridge North upon opening known?

I know the eventual plan is for the two GN fasts to stop en route to Ely and the two GN/TL semi-fasts to begin there, but (other than CrossCountry skipping the station) I haven't seen much indication of what GA are intending and how rapidly the GN timetable will take shape.

The Cambridge News http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/unofficial-website-reveals-what-could-12406668
reports that you can get the timetable data if you search at http://www.opentraintimes.com/ for late May.

In the morning, when I search for tickets on a weekday (May 30th), it looks like there is a gap between in the morning for trains from Ely that stop at Cambridge North, between the arrivals at 7.27 and 10.03. Between those times, you can get a train to Cambridge and then loop back to Cambridge North, but it takes 35-45 minutes, instead of 12.

In the evening, there it looks like there is a direct train every hour from Cambridge North to Ely.

 

[MikeWM]

The Cambridge News http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/unofficial-website-reveals-what-could-12406668
reports that you can get the timetable data if you search at http://www.opentraintimes.com/ for late May.

In the morning, when I search for tickets on a weekday (May 30th), it looks like there is a gap between in the morning for trains from Ely that stop at Cambridge North, between the arrivals at 7.27 and 10.03. Between those times, you can get a train to Cambridge and then loop back to Cambridge North, but it takes 35-45 minutes, instead of 12.

In the evening, there it looks like there is a direct train every hour from Cambridge North to Ely.

That didn't have the Cambridge-Norwich services listed at all when I looked earlier. They seem to have been added now - and all these look to stop, so that adds one per hour in each direction.

Even so, it does appear that commuters into Cambridge from the north aren't going to get a very good deal from the new station to begin with. The initial focus is clearly biased towards London commuters.

(Of course none of this is yet confirmed as final, but it does match what I heard was the initial plan a month or two ago)

 

[bspahh]

That didn't have the Cambridge-Norwich services listed at all when I looked earlier. They seem to have been added now - and all these look to stop, so that adds one per hour in each direction.

Even so, it does appear that commuters into Cambridge from the north aren't going to get a very good deal from the new station to begin with. The initial focus is clearly biased towards London commuters.

(Of course none of this is yet confirmed as final, but it does match what I heard was the initial plan a month or two ago)

Yes. I noticed that the Norwich trains were also stopping after I posted that. These are the direct trains from Ely to Cambridge North on May 30th for commuting times.

Ely CambNth Code
06.38 06.53 2T09
07.15 07.27 2T11
07.31 07.46 1K59
08.37 08.50 1K61
09.38 09.50 1K65
09.49 10.03 1T21
10.04 10.18 1T57

CambNth Ely Code
15.11 15.24 1T30
15.14 15.28 1K76
15.32 15.47 2T18
15.52 16.11 2H96
16.10 16.23 1T34
16.14 16.27 1K78
17.08 17.23 1T38
17.14 17.27 1K80
18.10 18.23 1T02
18.15 18.28 1K82
18.26 18.41 2H20
19.26 19.39 1K84
19.31 19.44 2T06
20.12 20.25 1T10


There are a few gaps in the schedule where you could arrive quicker if you went via Cambridge. I wonder if doubling back be allowed.

 

[Class377/5]

Locally to me, there is very much a body of opinion which wishes for the proposed King's Cross - Royston peak service to run hourly in the off-peak too.

This would allow one of the Thameslink - Cambridge stopping services to be re-routed to Peterborough instead.

The benefits of this are that Peterborough gets 3tph instead of 2tph, and retains direct services to places like Welwyn and Hatfield.

The Royston service allows Baldock to keep 1tph fast service to London, whilst stopping one of the fast Thameslink - Cambridge services at Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton maintains 2tph there but gives them a regular fast service to London for the first time ever.

This is certainly more useful than the current Thameslink proposals.

You cannot have the fast Thameslink Cambridge service call at the villages as this will be a 12 car service and NR say's it's a no no due to blocking the level crossings for too long.

Hence the proposed 8 car Thameslink stopper combined with platform lengthening. The reason for the delay in 700's being in service on GN from December 2016 until 2017 is due to platform lengthening on the Cambridge branch being needed ahead of the proposed introduction of 8 cars on the Cambridge branch.

So your proposal will mean the villages retain a 1tph service while Peterborough gains all the benefit.

Currently not sure if the Cambridge stoppers will still be the first 700 operated services on GN now tho.

 

[petersi]

This article claims Cambridge stoppers will not be class 700 until 2018
http://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/...s_will_take_six_months_network_rail_1_4827246

Gerardo Austria from Network Rail said: “We are extending the platforms to avoid level crossings being straddled at Shepreth and Foxton by the new trains.” He said the project will improve infrastructure for the eight-car Class 700 trains due to be rolled out by Govia Thameslink in 2018.

 

[bramling]

You cannot have the fast Thameslink Cambridge service call at the villages as this will be a 12 car service and NR say's it's a no no due to blocking the level crossings for too long.

Hence the proposed 8 car Thameslink stopper combined with platform lengthening. The reason for the delay in 700's being in service on GN from December 2016 until 2017 is due to platform lengthening on the Cambridge branch being needed ahead of the proposed introduction of 8 cars on the Cambridge branch.

So your proposal will mean the villages retain a 1tph service while Peterborough gains all the benefit.

Currently not sure if the Cambridge stoppers will still be the first 700 operated services on GN now tho.

If we're just talking about two platforms, simply extend them by a further 80m and that problem disappears.

 

[Class377/5]

If we're just talking about two platforms, simply extend them by a further 80m and that problem disappears.

Problem is finding the money from a NR that's got no spare cash. Also is there even a business case for 12 cars at all villages stations?

Take Balcombe Down platform for example, it has the only 8 car platform on the BML between Gatwick and Brighton yet it's going to be served by only 12 cars come December 2018 but no money to extend. Even tho it needs a track side beacons to have 12 cars call there so isn't a free solution for NR not to extend!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This article claims Cambridge stoppers will not be class 700 until 2018
http://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/...s_will_take_six_months_network_rail_1_4827246

Actually it states work will be finished in October so nothing stopping them coming in the December timetable change. (Worth noting the Thameslink timetable change happens a month later in January when London Bridge reopens).

As NR aren't responsible for the train diagrams, they are giving the standard 2018 timetable response, partly because the initial 700 services on GN (and Southern) won't be run by Thameslink but by GN (and Southern). But trying to get that message across in a single sentence to the press who neither understand nor care about that level of details is impossible.

 

[bramling]

Problem is finding the money from a NR that's got no spare cash. Also is there even a business case for 12 cars at all villages stations?

If it results in a better timetable across the board then the answer may well be yes.

We have 10-car platforms on the Uckfield line for similar reasons.

In any case the cost of an extra 80m shouldn't be that much, I don't think these are particularly problematic locations.

 

[bspahh]

There are a few gaps in the schedule where you could arrive quicker if you went via Cambridge. I wonder if doubling back be allowed.

The Fen Line Users Association http://www.flua.org.uk/ asked Greater Northern:

"National Rail Enquiries is now showing train services and connections to/from the new Cambridge North station. Journeys from/to King’s Lynn, Watlington, Downham Market, Littleport and Waterbeach cannot be made (except for a few early morning/late evening times) without changing trains, either at Ely or at Cambridge. In the latter case (National Rail Enquiries routes passengers via Cambridge in many instances) the passenger is required to travel through Cambridge North without stopping and double back from Cambridge station. Can you please confirm that such doubling back will be allowed on all types of tickets?"

Great Northern replied

"Cambridge and Cambridge North tickets will be interchangeable until such time when capacity issues have been resolved. Our fares team have also agreed with their counterparts at GA [Greater Anglia] that this will be briefed to station, revenue and any on-board staff. We will also brief our staff internally of these arrangements."

I was hoping that the tickets from Ely to Cambridge North would be a bit cheaper than the ones to Cambridge. From the sounds of this, they might be the same price for a while.