Glasgow - Fort William - Mallaig service

[Highlandspring]

Corpach has/had a signal box for the pulp and paper mill and the level crossing. Unsure if it’s still there.

That was Annat gate box, closed and demolished 2014.

 

[glenbogle]

That was Annat gate box, closed and demolished 2014.

Thanks for update.

 

[pt_mad]

Fort William Jn isn’t obvious to passengers viewing it from a train and isn’t at a station - the OP is very probably referring to Glenfinnan signalbox which has been turned into a museum. The box at Arisaig still exists but is boarded up.

It was indeed the Glenfinnan signalbox (the museum).

 

[Parallel]

I’ve only used the line once (around midday) between Fort William and Mallaig. The train was 4 coaches and full and standing. I don’t think it was the nice relaxing journey that some were hoping for!

The platforms at Arisaig looked quite long, so I was quite surprised when it was announced as being local door only. Must be close.

 

[route101]

Used a Oban to Glasgow service recently was chocka . People returning to Glasgow .

 

[James James]

A few days before easter, I did Fort-William to Mallaig return, on the first train that departs FTW after the sleeper. That was a 4-car, not particularly busy but it did have quite a few day-trippers seemingly from Glasgow. (I think this is the train that leaves Glasgow around 8am, and gets back around 9pm? That probably explains why it's longer.)

The next morning I continued to Glasgow at around 8am: that was a 2-car, no joins en-route.

I was rather disappointed by the cleanliness of the train windows, the trains also weren't that great compared to my usual commute. High time to get some panoramic-window Stadlers with window-aligned seating methinks.

I've never seen one fully reserved. Suspect some seats are unavailable for reservation. Equally I can never understand why people DON'T book seats. It's a 3 and a half hour journey minimum, almost everyone goes for a specific train so they know which one to book in advance. I personally would never undertake a journey of that length without a guaranteed seat, anywhere in the world.

When I booked the journey described above, I couldn't get seat reservations for FTW-GLQ, no matter how hard I tried. Don't blame the traveller... (Somehow I did get seat reservations for FTW to Mallaig though.)

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

I was on the 10:10 from Mallaig on Monday (two units, ie four cars) and it was neither very busy nor empty between Mallaig and Fort William, but then almost all seats were filled. Not sure about other trains as I arrived with the sleeper and the steam train.

 

[InOban]

I take your point, but the quoted portion isn't a great example. That's more to do with the time of day and location, rather than season. For example, 0521 ex Oban even in high summer will frequently have around 5 people on it. 10 is a good day.

I took the chance to speak to the guys at Oban today. Average 10, (20 by Crianlarich), 20 not unusual, busiest obviously on Mondays. Actually had about 30 yesterday. The northbound train had 17 (no pupils of course), but 6 bikes. The 2036 South has mainly a few locals, but can have daytrippers.

 

[Tractor2018]

I took the chance to speak to the guys at Oban today. Average 10, (20 by Crianlarich), 20 not unusual

Yes, sorry, I meant to post!

The recorded average is 12ish.

The down is mostly deserted until Dalmally in my experience. Edit: yeah, 17 excluding pupils sounds typical; few of them will have boarded before Dalmally.

 

[InOban]

Agreed. What is clear is that a new market has been created. I'm told that there are 15 regular commuters into Oban.

 

[pt_mad]

I’ve only used the line once (around midday) between Fort William and Mallaig. The train was 4 coaches and full and standing. I don’t think it was the nice relaxing journey that some were hoping for!

The platforms at Arisaig looked quite long, so I was quite surprised when it was announced as being local door only. Must be close.

That was the service I was on, the 1216 departing Fort William. Got the feeling that was the main tourist train of the day, with the steam being at roughly quarter past ten.

Was a class 156 if I recall. Is it usually 156s on this route?

And will the ScotRail HSTs ever be booked to work these services?

 

[Tractor2018]

was a class 156 if I recall. Is it usually 156s on this route?

Yes.

And will the ScotRail HSTs ever be booked to work these services?

No.

 

[pt_mad]

Yes.



No.

Is it due to be worked by 156s for this whole franchise?

 

[kylemore]

It is embarrassing that the West Highland is marketed as a premier tourist experience and yet is so badly run.

And no I don't mean the day to day running of the operation where the staff do a superb job - I mean the people responsible for policy whether Management or Government.

The rolling stock for the best part of 30 years has been dreadful - dmu's obviously designed as the lowest quality they could get away with before they actually closed the line, tatty, rattling, cramped inflexible.

The potential of the line is enormous - if you had people in government or management who actually cared and had talent.

 

[Tractor2018]

Is it due to be worked by 156s for this whole franchise?

It's all rumour and counter-rumour about 158s mate.

The last I heard, about 6 months ago, NR track and geometry had just been given the workload to survey the route for 158s, and they expected the work to last 6 months, once they had finished the same task for new sleeper stock.

 

[InOban]

I had that confirmed a couple of weeks ago. Once they have a cost, there will be negotiations with Transport Scotland, as to a possible variation to the franchise commitment to introduce 158s. In the meantime, we will be getting refurbished 156s.

 

[theironroad]

Yes.



No.

I know the Scotrail hst programme is an intercity operation, but even before that started I've wondered about hst etc on the whl.

I'm guessing it's a route availability issue .

I believe it's 156s that dominate but the Cal sleeper, west coast stock and the corpach freight all run over as far as ftw at least.

So why not hst?
Would 170s or tpe 185s be cleared for the line?

 

[kylemore]

158s!

What a laughable poverty of imagination and aspiration.

 

[sprinterguy]

I know the Scotrail hst programme is an intercity operation, but even before that started I've wondered about hst etc on the whl.

I'm guessing it's a route availability issue .

I believe it's 156s that dominate but the Cal sleeper, west coast stock and the corpach freight all run over as far as ftw at least.

So why not hst?
Would 170s or tpe 185s be cleared for the line?

Using HSTs would remove the flexible operation of regularly joining and splitting services that has taken place for the best part of the last thirty years. Track access charges and fuel costs would probably be increased, too, compared to Sprinter operation.

The rolling stock for the best part of 30 years has been dreadful - dmu's obviously designed as the lowest quality they could get away with before they actually closed the line, tatty, rattling, cramped inflexible.

The class 156s are solid and dependable workhorses, and one of the most successful outputs of BRs' Sprinter programme. With large panoramic windows and low backed seats I'd hardly consider them cramped, either, and they demonstrate the flexibility of multiple unit operation on a daily basis on the WHL. The Scotrail units are showing their age, though, and those self same low backed seats aren't really up to modern expectations of comfort in the twenty first century, and the sets lack mod cons such as air conditioning and plug sockets that are increasingly considered the norm. They do seem somewhat "bargain basement" compared to some of the innovative rolling stock utilised on scenic rural lines in mainland Europe, and are distinctly lacking even compared to the competing Citylink coach service that plies the same corridor.

 

[theironroad]

158s!

What a laughable poverty of imagination and aspiration.

I believe there have been plans to run an enhanced tourist service but seems to be on the back burner.

Maybe the increased amount of tourism to Scotland will put some pressure on TS to sort things out as the 156s are definitely not a great experience for a reasonably long journey over some great scenery.

However, I think economics comes into it as I'm sure someone will correct me, but running the WHL 363 days a year is not a profit making exercise and needs a big subsidy, not helped by the fact that Glasgow to fort William is quicker by road even with the narrow lochside roads between Tarbet and Ardlui alongside loch Lomond.

 

[theironroad]

Using HSTs would remove the flexible operation of regularly joining and splitting services that has taken place for the best part of the last thirty years. Track access charges and fuel costs would probably be increased, too, compared to Sprinter operation.

Must admit to have forgotten about the crianlarich splits/attach when I asked that.

 

[scotraildriver]

158's are still the long term plan as the 10 156's which are going off lease are all from the WHL/RETB pool and won't be refurbished. You can tell which ones are leaving as they haven't had forward facing CCTV/DAS or LED lighting installed. There are only 6 RETB units on the refurbishment programme. From memory I think units 445/453/456/465/499/500.

 

[Mingulay]

158's are still the long term plan as the 10 156's which are going off lease are all from the WHL/RETB pool and won't be refurbished. You can tell which ones are leaving as they haven't had forward facing CCTV/DAS or LED lighting installed. There are only 6 RETB units on the refurbishment programme. From memory I think units 445/453/456/465/499/500.

I would hate to think how one would survive a long journey in a refurbished 158. 4 adults at a table with no leg room and a table leg to wrap your leg around is on a par with water boarding !! . The new seats a far too big/cushioned leaving a cramped space . Its torture from Dunblane to Edinburgh, let alone this longer route sat at a table , I actively seek out seats with no table, or stand in preference to a table seat on a busy train.

 

[InOban]

The lines are cleared for class 43 ( the NRM train visits regularly), so unless the new doors foul the platforms, there would be no problem.

As posters are saying, there are pros and cons between the 156 and 158.

We would dearly like to get rid of splitting at crianlarich because it adds 10 minutes to the journey.

 

[Tractor2018]

158's are still the long term plan as the 10 156's which are going off lease are all from the WHL/RETB pool and won't be refurbished. You can tell which ones are leaving as they haven't had forward facing CCTV/DAS or LED lighting installed. There are only 6 RETB units on the refurbishment programme. From memory I think units 445/453/456/465/499/500.

When is the lease up, do you know?

 

[scotraildriver]

We would dearly like to get rid of splitting at crianlarich because it adds 10 minutes to the journey.[/QUOTE]

Tourists love it though, a chance to stretch your legs and take lots of photos. (And occasionally get left behind!)

 

[theironroad]

We would dearly like to get rid of splitting at crianlarich because it adds 10 minutes to the journey.

Tourists love it though, a chance to stretch your legs and take lots of photos. (And occasionally get left behind!)[/QUOTE]

I have noticed a fair few people get out for an *obviously unofficial and not allowed* ciggy break....

 

[DuncanS]

I would hate to think how one would survive a long journey in a refurbished 158. 4 adults at a table with no leg room and a table leg to wrap your leg around is on a par with water boarding !! . The new seats a far too big/cushioned leaving a cramped space . Its torture from Dunblane to Edinburgh, let alone this longer route sat at a table , I actively seek out seats with no table, or stand in preference to a table seat on a busy train.

I survived quite easily and somehow me and my arthritic knee manage fine on the Dunblane/Edinburgh route on a daily basis as well.

 

[Chrism20]

My biggest complaint with the 158 seats is the seem too high particularly at the table seats.

Re the WHL getting 158s wasn’t there issues with them on the Borders line and gradients? Overheating engines rings a bell for some reason.

 

[pt_mad]

The lines are cleared for class 43 ( the NRM train visits regularly), so unless the new doors foul the platforms, there would be no problem.

Hmm yeah not sure what the situation would be if they wanted to run HSTs along there at the stations between Fort William and Mallaig where currently only one passenger door opens.


In a way I can't understand why the route to Fort William is considered worthy of a sleeper service in each direction to London but isn't being considered as part of the HST ScotRail program. If it's on a main route and flow why not include it in the HST routes?