Ghost Trains or Parliamentary

[Train Pilchard]

Any in Scotland?

I know there is a rare Glasgow QS - Kirkcaldy which is maybe once a day. And Golf Street and Barry Links stations in the north east get a train stopping once every blue moon to prevent closure. Anything else?

 

[Buttsy]

Any in Scotland?

I know there is a rare Glasgow QS - Kirkcaldy which is maybe once a day. And Golf Street and Barry Links stations in the north east get a train stopping once every blue moon to prevent closure. Anything else?

There are a couple of curves - Welsh Bridge in Inverness and Cowlairs North curve in Glasgow

 

[GlosRail]

There is Birmingham to Gloucester via Droitwich which runs once a week on a Friday night one way only and is run by London Midland who stopped all other services to Gloucester a few years back.

Others ones are Gerrards Cross to Paddington, but that runs once a day I think rather than once a week.

 

[Eagle]

Others ones are Gerrards Cross to Paddington, but that runs once a day I think rather than once a week.

One return a day, and it doesn't get as far as Gerrards Cross either any more. 11.02 South Ruislip to Paddington and 11.36 Paddington to West Ruislip.

And for no reason whatsoever, the headcodes of those are 1V28 and 2M28. (They correctly acknowledge that this train goes between two Regions though, so that's something.)

 

[dvboy]

Still going:
2J97 1936 SSuX Walsall - Wolverhampton

 

[Goatboy]

There is Birmingham to Gloucester via Droitwich which runs once a week on a Friday night one way only and is run by London Midland who stopped all other services to Gloucester a few years back.

Really annoying that they did this - left the link between Worcester and Droitwich to the CrossCountry network down to the infrequent FGW services or the considerably longer and more expensive Via Birmingham tickets.

 

[TEW]

Really annoying that they did this - left the link between Worcester and Droitwich to the CrossCountry network down to the infrequent FGW services or the considerably longer and more expensive Via Birmingham tickets.

It didn't have a huge effect really. The Worcester-Gloucester shuttles were only every two hours. They didn't combine well with the two hourly FGW service from Gloucester-Worcester/Malvern though so the service was hourly in one direction only, the other direction the trains were about ten minutes apart.

 

[Eagle]

Really annoying that they did this - left the link between Worcester and Droitwich to the CrossCountry network down to the infrequent FGW services or the considerably longer and more expensive Via Birmingham tickets.

They did it because a) it was so unviable it was haemorrhaging money and b) they wanted to put the 170s to better use on the crowded Shrewsbury and Rugeley corridors rather than running nearly empty down to Gloucester and back.

 

[Goatboy]

It didn't have a huge effect really. The Worcester-Gloucester shuttles were only every two hours. They didn't combine well with the two hourly FGW service from Gloucester-Worcester/Malvern though so the service was hourly in one direction only, the other direction the trains were about ten minutes apart.

They did it because a) it was so unviable it was haemorrhaging money and b) they wanted to put the 170s to better use on the crowded Shrewsbury and Rugeley corridors rather than running nearly empty down to Gloucester and back.

Ah. Perhaps if they'd had more useful paths available then it would have been better - running 10 minutes after the FGW service sounds pointless.

The FGW service between Worcs and Gloucs is certainly very well patronised. It's so ironic that the XC services pass so close to Worcester yet connecting with them is often such a pain

 

[TEW]

Yeh, that would have been a lot better. Running it at that interval in both directions would have required an extra unit though.

 

[Eagle]

The FGW service between Worcs and Gloucs is certainly very well patronised. It's so ironic that the XC services pass so close to Worcester yet connecting with them is often such a pain

Both Central and XC at some point tried diverting some of their Cardiff services via Worcester, but evidently again it worked out as too much pain (journey times increased by about 20-30 minutes) for not enough gain.

 

[Buttsy]

Both Central and XC at some point tried diverting some of their Cardiff services via Worcester, but evidently again it worked out as too much pain (journey times increased by about 20-30 minutes) for not enough gain.

How about a new station where the Cotswold line crosses over?

 

[Goatboy]

How about a new station where the Cotswold line crosses over?

I've seen that planned for ages - it'd be hugely useful. Though I'd imagine it'll be a long before we see anything like that.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Not strictly a Parliamentary train, but there is one service a day from Birmingham to Stratford via Dorridge (05:50 Birmingham Snow Hill - Stratford upon Avon) which is the only train passengers can go over Hatton north curve on.

 

[tbtc]

Not strictly a Parliamentary train, but there is one service a day from Birmingham to Stratford via Dorridge (05:50 Birmingham Snow Hill - Stratford upon Avon) which is the only train passengers can go over Hatton north curve on.

TBH these kind of services (and the token Far North service that uses the far side of the Inverness "triangle") are a lot closer to the definition that I would use for "parliamentary" services (the bare minimum required to keep a bit of line open) than the usual list of infrequent services that crop up in these kind of threads (which are significantly more than any bare minimum - like the Ellesmere Port service).

Some "parliamentary" services are obvious in the timetable (like the Denton one), but others like the Dorridge example may not jump out as "unusual".

 

[frodshamfella]

I have travelled on the Ellesmere Port- Helsby service a number of times and alighted at both intermediate stations. The route is described as a limited service ( 4 per day mon-sat) timings less than helpful for most, the line is crying out for a more useful. Also been on the summer only direct Chester to Runcorn on a Saturday morning (one way). Again a route which should be in full service, to link Chester, Helsby and Frodsham to Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway (for airport) and Lime Street. I guess this is a parlimentary.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

TBH these kind of services (and the token Far North service that uses the far side of the Inverness "triangle") are a lot closer to the definition that I would use for "parliamentary" services (the bare minimum required to keep a bit of line open) than the usual list of infrequent services that crop up in these kind of threads (which are significantly more than any bare minimum - like the Ellesmere Port service).

Some "parliamentary" services are obvious in the timetable (like the Denton one), but others like the Dorridge example may not jump out as "unusual".

I think it's more of a driver competency thing in that specific example, as there are plenty of ECS moves over Hatton North Curve. I might be wrong of course, but there have been at least double the amount of ECS moves over that junction compared to passenger trains for years, far longer than the London Midland franchise has existed.

 

[PaulLothian]

TBH these kind of services (and the token Far North service that uses the far side of the Inverness "triangle") are a lot closer to the definition that I would use for "parliamentary" services (the bare minimum required to keep a bit of line open) than the usual list of infrequent services that crop up in these kind of threads (which are significantly more than any bare minimum - like the Ellesmere Port service).

I suspect that the Inverness example you give isn't the best, as the connecting line is quite well used for a range of purposes. I hope it's not at risk, because a fair bit of stock would be cut off from the rest of the network! I suspect that a few people from the west/north of Inverness quite like having a through service to the east again. Such through services, generally requiring a reversal, used to be quite common in the past.

 

[IrishDave]

Not strictly a Parliamentary train, but there is one service a day from Birmingham to Stratford via Dorridge (05:50 Birmingham Snow Hill - Stratford upon Avon) which is the only train passengers can go over Hatton north curve on.

There are two, actually - there's a return in the evening, the 21:36 Stratford-Snow Hill, which also goes via the Hatton north curve. Unlike the morning one, though, it's non-stop Stratford-Moor Street, so in theory I guess it could be diverted via Shirley. When I did it in June, though, it did indeed go via Dorridge (and was surprisingly busy!).

 

[class57basher]

Just a quick question I have read through the thread and was wondering if the Kenny O-wandsworth road is still a runner and also does anyone know the time of the newhaven marine train

 

[30907]

I have travelled on the Ellesmere Port- Helsby service a number of times and alighted at both intermediate stations. The route is described as a limited service ( 4 per day mon-sat) timings less than helpful for most, the line is crying out for a more useful.

Also been on the summer only direct Chester to Runcorn on a Saturday morning (one way). I guess this is a parlimentary.

The Runcorn is a true parliamentary service.
Ellesmere Port-Helsby has run like that since E Port was electrified so I presume is in the franchise agreement. I thought the times were originally to suit the shifts at the refineries?

 

[Bunting14]

Im not sure if this has been answered already but how much would a public enquiry cost to formally end the passenger services on these lines. And would there be anything else which would need to be done?

 

[tony6499]

Just a quick question I have read through the thread and was wondering if the Kenny O-wandsworth road is still a runner and also does anyone know the time of the newhaven marine train

It leaves Brighton at 1922 but does not carry passengers into the Marine station and leaves at 2015 but the return working is ECS.

There is no public access into the Marine station now.

 

[tractakid]

How is the Marine situation legal? Surely there has to be a way to actually use the station for it to be legal? (I know they DID do taxis, but I believe that stopped?)

 

[Andyjs247]

Both Central and XC at some point tried diverting some of their Cardiff services via Worcester, but evidently again it worked out as too much pain (journey times increased by about 20-30 minutes) for not enough gain.

I was looking at this just the other day and was surprised to find (on Realtime Trains) the following XC services which run between Birmingham and Cheltenham via Stourbridge and Worcester but don't stop:

1V01 0500 Birmingham New Street - Cardiff Central
1V02 0537 Birmingham New Street - Cardiff Central
1M87 2105 Cardiff Central - Birmingham New Street
1M80 2014 Paignton - Birmingham New Street

I guess it's to maintain route knowledge but it seems a pity not to stop at Shrub Hill. I've always thought Worcester deserves a better service on the Cross country route.

Off topic but many years ago (70s) I vaguely remember travelling from Birmingham to Worcester via the Lickey on a Paddington - Paddington train. I guess this would have run via High Wycombe, Solihull to Birmingham New Street then back to Paddington via Worcester and Oxford.

 

[swcovas]

Not sure if they can be classed as parliamentary trains but there are the handful of trains which use the Swansea District line. Also the daytime Cardiff-Fishguard which avoids Carmarthen and the 0148 SuO Fishguard - Cardiff which uses the Landore loop (WHY?). Not strictly parliamentary but (usually) a 4 times a year train during the Royal Welsh show which runs from Cardiff to Llandrindod via the Swansea District line AND, more interestingly, Hendy Junction curve.

Slightly off subject, but what do members think is the future for the Swansea District line once doubling of the main line through Gowerton has been completed?

 

[mirodo]

Just a quick question I have read through the thread and was wondering if the Kenny O-wandsworth road is still a runner

For now, yes.

The DfT have approved the withdrawal of the service and the closure to passenger traffic of the relevant chord, but the decision needs to be ratified by the ORR before it can be terminated.

 

[30907]

Off topic but many years ago (70s) I vaguely remember travelling from Birmingham to Worcester via the Lickey on a Paddington - Paddington train. I guess this would have run via High Wycombe, Solihull to Birmingham New Street then back to Paddington via Worcester and Oxford.

There was one each way IIRC for a few years, and they actually ran via Oxford both ways as the Wycombe route by then was down to the 1740 off Padd and the morning up working, but I cant lay my hands on a timetable. It solved the problem of what to do during the layover at New Street.
Memory suggests 1005 Padd-Worcs-1321 Bham-Padd was one.

 

[455driver]

How is the Marine situation legal? Surely there has to be a way to actually use the station for it to be legal? (I know they DID do taxis, but I believe that stopped?)

As it is a 5 minute walk (if you take your time) what exactly is the problem, it doesnt exactly cause anyone any hardship!

 

[class57basher]

For now, yes.

The DfT have approved the withdrawal of the service and the closure to passenger traffic of the relevant chord, but the decision needs to be ratified by the ORR before it can be terminated.

should be out in january to do this little train. is it still 1614 off wandsworth road and 0930ish in the morning off kenny O