George Osborne in first class with standard ticket?

[Trog]

Given his position and that he should realise that his every action will be watched and commented upon. I feel that not going straight to a member of staff to ask about an upgrade was foolish. He is also obviously not well briefed on rail travel, as if he had made the effort to read this and similar websites, he would have known the importance of going to the guard/train manager, to show honest intent. Rather than just sitting there waiting for him/her to come round, and risking giving the impression of hopeing his ticket would not be checked.

 

[Flamingo]

Given his position and that he should realise that his every action will be watched and commented upon. I feel that not going straight to a member of staff to ask about an upgrade was foolish. He is also obviously not well briefed on rail travel, as if he had made the effort to read this and similar websites, he would have known the importance of going to the guard/train manager, to show honest intent. Rather than just sitting there waiting for him/her to come round, and risking giving the impression of hopeing his ticket would not be checked.

If he was travelling on FGW, it would be perfectly acceptable to wait until the TM turned up.

(Stop this, I'm coming dangerously close to defending the actions of a Tory minister - my mother would be ashamed of me!)

 

[tbtc]

Absolutely. It's only if you were sat / standing in First Class with a STD class ticket and DIDN'T want to pay the difference that we would start to fall out...

Fair enough - that settles the matter for me - I'd trust your opinion over a thousand journalists/ biased political types

 

[jon0844]

Did they just plonk themselves down in first and wait for a guard, or did the aide seek out staff - hence going into standard and triggering the attention from this reporter?

Clearly upgrading on a DOO train is a no no, but where there's staff to take your money (and possibly earn commission) who is going to say it's not allowed, or call BTP to have them removed at the next station.

Finally, I've been in coach A a few times and it's usually busy. And why should anyone have to walk through up to 11 coaches to seek out a seat, especially if it's busy?

 

[Flamingo]

Fair enough - that settles the matter for me - I'd trust your opinion over a thousand journalists/ biased political types

Thank you

 

[northwichcat]

Finally, I've been in coach A a few times and it's usually busy. And why should anyone have to walk through up to 11 coaches to seek out a seat, especially if it's busy?

Very unlikely that a 11 car Pendolino would have been working the specified Manchester-Wilmslow-London service and also very unlikely that the only First Class seat available would have been right at the opposite end of the train to the door at the nose end of carriage A.

 

[Bayum]

It would appear that Osbourne may have tried to pull the same charade before:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rst-Class-carriage-standard-train-ticket.html

What I don't understand is how can it be better for the taxpayer if he now has a first class ticket... Hasn't he just wasted money on a standard ticket which hasn't been used as a result?

 

[jon0844]

I knew someone would say it was only a 9 car! Nor did I think everyone would have to walk the entire distance of a train, but it's still a valid point even if just walking a few coaches. And not everyone will know where the quiet carriages are, or if there is one.

We do seem to have people desperate to find fault here when there likely is none whatsoever.

 

[Geezertronic]

Given his position and that he should realise that his every action will be watched and commented upon. I feel that not going straight to a member of staff to ask about an upgrade was foolish. He is also obviously not well briefed on rail travel, as if he had made the effort to read this and similar websites, he would have known the importance of going to the guard/train manager, to show honest intent. Rather than just sitting there waiting for him/her to come round, and risking giving the impression of hopeing his ticket would not be checked.

But doesn't the story say that his aide sought out the TM on his behalf and arranged for the upgrade? Who is to say that he has to specifically go to the TM himself? If it was me and my family, we wouldn't all seek out the TM, I would sort it out while the wife finds seats with the kids.

This thread on such a non story is hilarious

 

[Oswyntail]

If he was travelling on FGW, it would be perfectly acceptable to wait until the TM turned up.

(Stop this, I'm coming dangerously close to defending the actions of a Tory minister - my mother would be ashamed of me!)

Well said, Sir.
(Bet you never expected that!)

 

[Flamingo]

well said, sir.
(bet you never expected that!)

:-d

 

[Butts]

Perhaps the media should be concentrating on the ridiculous cost of the upgrade, whoever has to pay it Osborne or anyone else.

A total non-story - just for a change

 

[bailey65]

Total non story on a slow news day george osborne bought the tickets needed for his travel from the guard like anyone else would,so what.

 

[packetlos]

A complete non story and perfectly acceptable to purchase an upgrade on VT; somebody holding the second most important job in HMG when travelling for work purposes should be travelling in first in my opnion.

I travelled in first last month for work purposes and my job is several orders of magnitude less important than his! But why let the facts get in the way when our left leaning members have a chance to bash...

 

[Mojo]

Sorry, am I missing something?

Man holds Standard class ticket and wishes to upgrade on-board. Said company regularly announces that people wishing to upgrade should take a seat in First and pay Train Manager. Man (or in this case his assistant) pays for upgrade.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What I don't understand is how can it be better for the taxpayer if he now has a first class ticket... Hasn't he just wasted money on a standard ticket which hasn't been used as a result?

Only if it was an Advance (which I don't believe it was given the price involved). It is perfectly acceptable to upgrade to First class on board the train, on certain Tocs, and you pay the difference between your Standard ticket, and an appropriate ticket to travel in First.

 

[transmanche]

A complete non story and perfectly acceptable to purchase an upgrade on VT; somebody holding the second most important job in HMG when travelling for work purposes should be travelling in first in my opnion.

In cases such as this, the facts aren't actually that relevant. What is important is the perception.

High profile figures (especially politicians) should be aware of this and ensure that not only are they squeaky clean, but seen to be squeaky clean. In this instance, the aide should have made sure that the correct tickets were held before boarding the train, to avoid even the potential whiff of a scandal. Because whether or not he broke any rules, it looks bad - and that's what people will remember!

And for a politician it's doubly important as they're damned either way. If he broke the rules, he's a 'crook'. If tried to get a free upgrade/refused to go into standard, he's a 'snob'. And if he did nothing wrong, he's an 'idiot' for for letting it look like he might have done something wrong. And that's what makes news!

 

[wintonian]

Only if it was an Advance (which I don't believe it was given the price involved). It is perfectly acceptable to upgrade to First class on board the train, on certain Tocs, and you pay the difference between your Standard ticket, and an appropriate ticket to travel in First.

Exactly.

I used to do this on occasion in order to claim the cost of the standard ticket on expenses whilst at the same time having an aversion to cattle class on XC or peak trains to/ from London.

 

[Ferret]

In cases such as this, the facts aren't actually that relevant. What is important is the perception.

High profile figures (especially politicians) should be aware of this and ensure that not only are they squeaky clean, but seen to be squeaky clean. In this instance, the aide should have made sure that the correct tickets were held before boarding the train, to avoid even the potential whiff of a scandal. Because whether or not he broke any rules, it looks bad - and that's what people will remember!

And for a politician it's doubly important as they're damned either way. If he broke the rules, he's a 'crook'. If tried to get a free upgrade/refused to go into standard, he's a 'snob'. And if he did nothing wrong, he's an 'idiot' for for letting it look like he might have done something wrong. And that's what makes news!

Only because the terminally gullible and the unintelligent are determined to make it news. Businessmen, senior civil servants and MPs upgrade their tickets on the train, it happens all the time when they get on a train and find standard busy. Some people really need to understand that fact and move on.

 

[transmanche]

Only because the terminally gullible and the unintelligent are determined to make it news.

And that's because the terminally gullible and unintelligent are unaware of the damage that bad PR can do - those who understand this do everything in their power to avoid it. Politicians who don't understand it often lose their jobs - witness Andrew Mitchell.

 

[table38]

Well the TUC special charter Pendolino to London which left just ahead of my train to Crewe today seemed to have plenty of people in First Class, so maybe even TUC members like to get away from the "plebs" in Standard Class occasionally

 

[johnnychips]

While I agree that it is ridiculous that the Chancellor should be expected to travel standard class, will the TUC members be paying for their own tickets? Perhaps some are on expenses from their union, or perhaps they have chosen to spend their own money.

 

[SS4]

While I agree that it is ridiculous that the Chancellor should be expected to travel standard class, will the TUC members be paying for their own tickets?

How is that ridiculous? Unless it's sarcasm in which case I apologise

 

[table38]

While I agree that it is ridiculous that the Chancellor should be expected to travel standard class, will the TUC members be paying for their own tickets? Perhaps some are on expenses from their union, or perhaps they have chosen to spend their own money.

I overheard some of the people on the train I was on discussing how they could get their local branch to refund their taxi fares home.

 

[johnnychips]

How is that ridiculous? Unless it's sarcasm in which case I apologise

No, it wasn't sarcastic, and believe it or not I vote Labour. But I do know that a lot of politicians, contrary to popular belief and whether you agree with their opinions or not, do work hard, and I am sure the Chancellor deserves to relax or work. That's why firms pay for people to go First Class.

However, the organisation by his aide was a total balls-up.

 

[Oswyntail]

.... In this instance, the aide should have made sure that the correct tickets were held before boarding the train, to avoid even the potential whiff of a scandal. .....

Presumably by ringing up Virgin as the train left the previous station and asking whether there was room in standard:roll:
The only "whiff of a scandal" is how supposedly responsible people (the journo and those who picked up the story) can so trivialise politics as to think this was worth pursuing.

 

[jon0844]

Depends who you believe. That the aide demanded to be allowed in first class without paying, or sought out the guard to upgrade.

We've been told both, but if they had standard tickets then I'm inclined to believe they would have sat in standard if they could, or had got their originally booked train.

For example, did they travel in first or standard before? For people to believe George refused to sit with the plebs means he presumably always goes first class?

 

[Realfish]

And that's because the terminally gullible and unintelligent are unaware of the damage that bad PR can do - those who understand this do everything in their power to avoid it. Politicians who don't understand it often lose their jobs - witness Andrew Mitchell.

Sadly that's true, even if there is no story. As the BBC bloke on the Today programme said this morning, it doesn't matter whether the story is true or not! So people will believe what they want to (or what they are fed).

Even here, where I would think that people had some knowledge of railway practice - some seem to want to condemn Osborne because he didn't have a valid first ticket (like 80% of Daily Mail contributors who have convinced themselves that he did something illegal). For what it's worth, I've plonked myself in VT's first a dozen times or more and never had a problem in paying the supplement (and invited colleagues to join me and paid their upgrade also).

First class travel for MPs remains quite common. So it seems a bit hypocritical to single any one person out. This from the Sunday Telegraph:

- 113 Labour MPs, 48 Tories and 19 Lib Dems have claimed first class rail tickets over the past year. Two Plaid Cymru and three Scottish National Party members bring the total to 185.

- More than 50 MPs have been reimbursed for at least 10 first-class rail journeys, with 14 of these members claiming 20 or more

- Tom Harris, the Labour Glasgow MP, has submitted claims for 40 first-class ticket. Guto Bebb, a Tory with a Welsh constituency, submitted 36.

- Tom Clarke, another Scottish Labour MP, took 28 business or club-class flights, the most by any parliamentarian.

- Of 24 MPs who recouped the cost of luxury flights, 14 were Labour MPs, one was a Tory, six were Lib Dems, and three were members of the SNP.

- Mike Crockart, the Liberal Democrat, was reimbursed for 27 business or club-class flights between London and his Edinburgh constituency, each worth up to £461.

 

[Ferret]

And that's because the terminally gullible and unintelligent are unaware of the damage that bad PR can do - those who understand this do everything in their power to avoid it. Politicians who don't understand it often lose their jobs - witness Andrew Mitchell.

You've hit the nail on the head there. The problem is that it's all about perception these days, not about the substance. It's all about the lowest common denominator.

 

[transmanche]

Presumably by ringing up Virgin as the train left the previous station and asking whether there was room in standard:roll:
The only "whiff of a scandal" is how supposedly responsible people (the journo and those who picked up the story) can so trivialise politics as to think this was worth pursuing.

No; by purchasing their first class tickets before boarding the train, if they wanted to travel first class. That is only way to avoid a "whiff of a scandal".

Fair or not - that's how things are these days. And politicians have to accept that if they want to avoid trial by media and keep their jobs.

 

[Ferret]

No; by purchasing their first class tickets before boarding the train, if they wanted to travel first class. That is only way to avoid a "whiff of a scandal".

Fair or not - that's how things are these days. And politicians have to accept that if they want to avoid trial by media and keep their jobs.

But, the expenses scandal made sure that politicians could not purchase FC tickets before travel, and then claim it on expenses. The whole thing is a total f@@k up! Personally, I'd rather that the likes of Cameron, Osborne, Miliband and Balls were in FC away from the masses from a security point of view, but that's not universally popular!