George Osborne in first class with standard ticket?

[jon0844]

I want to elect politicians that will make tough, but fair, decisions and not just pander to a nation of people who treat politics (or indeed the railways) like an episode of X Factor.

If every MP must concentrate so hard on public perception, how can they get anything done?

I'm more supportive of the Tories personally but would defend any Labour MPs just the same when things are said that aren't true. If you need to make stuff up, exaggerate or twist facts then you've obviously got a weak argument to begin with.

 

[transmanche]

If every MP must concentrate so hard on public perception, how can they get anything done?

I guess that's what the aide's job is... to anticipate possible 'issues' and to take action to mitigate/prevent them from arising.

 

[johnnychips]

But, the expenses scandal made sure that politicians could not purchase FC tickets before travel, and then claim it on expenses. The whole thing is a total f@@k up! Personally, I'd rather that the likes of Cameron, Osborne, Miliband and Balls were in FC away from the masses from a security point of view, but that's not universally popular!

Like their politics or not, being a busy cabinet minister or whatever must either require you to be able to work at a desk at times or just chill (chillaxe!) out. First Class is appropriate.

Never experienced Virgin 1st Class! Is it like East Coast (no not another catering argument!) in that you would have room to work with a table, free wifi, and with any luck empty seats around you?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Personally, I'd rather that the likes of Cameron, Osborne, Miliband and Balls were in FC away from the masses from a security point of view

I once found myself sitting directly opposite Lord Lawson on a Piccadilly Line train to Heathrow in the days when he was still Chancellor; no staff with him either.

Fast forward....

Four years ago I was en route to Manchester; going through euston there were so many police around that I was wondering if the Grove was running, but no sign of it. Then I noticed that the 1st class carriage nearest the buffers at Euston was blocked off by police at the doors.

Turned out it was Jacqui Smith ( then Home Secretary ) on board also going to Manchester and had taken over the entire carriage.

 

[dggar]

Presumably by ringing up Virgin as the train left the previous station and asking whether there was room in standard:roll:
.

The advertised running time form Stockport to Wilmslow for the 14.55 ex MAN
is 6 minutes

Calling points Arrives -------- Departs
Stockport [SPT] 15:03 --------- 15:04
Wilmslow [WML] 15:10---------- 15:11

 

[wintonian]

Never experienced Virgin 1st Class! Is it like East Coast

Yes Virgin also provide crockery as opposed to paper cup and plastic tray seen on XC if your lucky.

no not another catering argument!

Oh sorry that was about catering.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

I want to elect politicians that will make tough, but fair, decisions and not just pander to a nation of people who treat politics (or indeed the railways) like an episode of X Factor.

If every MP must concentrate so hard on public perception, how can they get anything done?

I'm more supportive of the Tories personally but would defend any Labour MPs just the same when things are said that aren't true. If you need to make stuff up, exaggerate or twist facts then you've obviously got a weak argument to begin with.

Or it is lazy journalism:roll:

 

[krisk]

I am not alowed to tell you the exact story but I'm not allowed to disclose details.

 

[jon0844]

Wow I wish I was allowed to tell you the exact story but I'm not allowed to disclose details.

Haha. Yeah, because the Government managed to get to every passenger on the train (in full view of all the press at Euston) and make them agree to keep quiet. You know, to stop the story making the news!!

If you've been 'got at', you could probably become rich by letting the media know. This is a non-story, but what you're saying is massive bring-down-the-Government stuff.

Mind you, as they're likely monitoring this thread to see if anyone spoke up, you're now going to have to watch your back. They're probably tracking you now as you've admitted you know the truth. As you might break, you could be seen as a threat.

Watch out!

 

[merlodlliw]

Haha. Yeah, because the Government managed to get to every passenger on the train (in full view of all the press at Euston) and make them agree to keep quiet. You know, to stop the story making the news!!

did that in fact happen? The only way would be to get them sign the Official secrets act & I am sure not all in first would be willing,This mornings radio 4 news at 7 reports many M.Ps get round the ban on first by upgrading on the train and said all parties were involved.

 

[DarloRich]

In any event you should all understand that the perception of the "crime" rather than the "crime" itself is all that matters.

The perception among many, and in parts of the media, is that call me "Dave" and The Baron Osborne and chums are out of touch with real life and the electorate in general. This just gives the press another opportunity to beat the, they would say, rich, privileged, uncaring, toff like Tories. Why do they allow themselves to walk into things like this?

The story is that the Baron Osbourne is to rich and stuck up to travel with the likes of us in cattle class, NOT that he had the wrong ticket and paid an upgrade.

Some of you seem very politically naive if you dont understand how the Westminster village/ media world works!

(As my views on the Conservatives are well known I am staying away from expressing an opinion on what class cabinet minsters should travel!)

 

[Tracked]

did that in fact happen? The only way would be to get them sign the Official secrets act & I am sure not all in first would be willing,This mornings radio 4 news at 7 reports many M.Ps get round the ban on first by upgrading on the train and said all parties were involved.

thought this time, or the other time, someone was live-tweeting events on the train as it happened anyway? (haven't followed the story too closely)

 

[ainsworth74]

did that in fact happen? The only way would be to get them sign the Official secrets act & I am sure not all in first would be willing

Of course not, that would have been an even bigger story! "Osborne tries to make his first class travel a state secret" or "Osborne tries to force passengers and staff to sign official secrets acts to cover up his first class travel".

This mornings radio 4 news at 7 reports many M.Ps get round the ban on first by upgrading on the train and said all parties were involved.

Are they claiming the upgrades on expenses or just the standard class tickets? If it's just the standard ticket then who cares if they're paying out of their own pocket for first class?

 

[jaigee]

Haha. Yeah, because the Government managed to get to every passenger on the train (in full view of all the press at Euston) and make them agree to keep quiet. You know, to stop the story making the news!!

While appreciating the sarcasm in your post, I would assume 95%+ of the passengers would have had no idea what had gone on anyway, it wasn't exactly a one coach 153!

 

[MattRobinson]

Krisk, instead of hinting that you know exactly what went on, either tell us or stop contributing. Your silly 'I know what you want to' game makes you look neither big nor clever and nobody can actually respond to what you say if you don't tell us what you experienced. I also doubt that you cannot tell us what happened through anything more than a self imposed ban to try to make other posters jealous of the information that you've supposedly got (and I'm doubting whether you actually have any at all or whether you're just trying to get involved).

 

[tbtc]

While appreciating the sarcasm in your post, I would assume 95%+ of the passengers would have had no idea what had gone on anyway, it wasn't exactly a one coach 153!

True.

The only people who know the story are Osbourne, one member of Virgin staff and Osbourne's aide. Not the journalist, not anyone else.

And from what little we know, the main three people don't appear to have all been together for all of the conversations anyway.

So I'm pretty sceptical of anyone claiming to know the truth.

I take DarloRich's point about perception. Politicians are very keen to exploit public perception over evidence when it suits them - e.g. fear of crime rising whilst *actual* crime goes down.

 

[Flamingo]

Krisk, instead of hinting that you know exactly what went on, either tell us or stop contributing. Your silly 'I know what you want to' game makes you look neither big nor clever and nobody can actually respond to what you say if you don't tell us what you experienced. I also doubt that you cannot tell us what happened through anything more than a self imposed ban to try to make other posters jealous of the information that you've supposedly got (and I'm doubting whether you actually have any at all or whether you're just trying to get involved).

He's got form for similar on other threads, don't feed the troll is probably the best advice ...

 

[Greenback]

Wow I wish I was allowed to tell you the exact story but I'm not allowed to disclose details.

There is absolutely no need for a post such as this. Please do not do it again.

 

[andykn]

Wow I wish I was allowed to tell you the exact story but I'm not allowed to disclose details.

If you did have any inside info you could comment on what existing stories are true and which aren't.

 

[jon0844]

While appreciating the sarcasm in your post, I would assume 95%+ of the passengers would have had no idea what had gone on anyway, it wasn't exactly a one coach 153!

Of course but IF something happened that was so bad and needed to be covered up, we'd have seen the train boarded by police/army/MI5/James Bond before it arrived.

My point is how ridiculous it is for anyone to say they're not allowed to say something about an incident that is in the public domain and about a train ticket!

If he saw George murdering someone on the other hand...

 

[jimm]

True.

The only people who know the story are Osbourne, one member of Virgin staff and Osbourne's aide. Not the journalist, not anyone else.

The initlal conversation between the aide and the train manager quite clearly took place in a standard class coach in the hearing of Rachel Townsend. This is her version of events, as quoted by The Guardian.

She later said: "George Osborne got on the train with aides at Wilmslow and went straight to first class. Then his aide approached the ticket collector right next to me. He said he is travelling with George and he has a standard ticket but can he remain in first class? The guard said no. The aide said Osborne couldn't possibly sit in standard class. The guard replied saying if he wants to stay it's £160. The aide said he couldn't pay and he couldn't really sit in standard. The guard refused to budge. The guard went on gathering tickets and later told me Osborne had agreed to cough up the £160."

 

[merlodlliw]

Of course not, that would have been an even bigger story! "Osborne tries to make his first class travel a state secret" or "Osborne tries to force passengers and staff to sign official secrets acts to cover up his first class travel".



Are they claiming the upgrades on expenses or just the standard class tickets? If it's just the standard ticket then who cares if they're paying out of their own pocket for first class?

The implication was on exs as a way round the no first rule.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

All mps should be made to travel cattle class unless they are willing to pay out of their own pocket. Remember we're all in this together!!

 

[Oswyntail]

Of course but IF something happened that was so bad and needed to be covered up, we'd have seen the train boarded by police/army/MI5/James Bond before it arrived......

And there you see the true cunning of the politico. By arranging for the "story" to be tweeted (and, if the story from the journalist above was accurate, even less of a story, as the guard was sought out!) it was inevitable that a media scrum would form, and all attention was directed away from the passengers. This allowed the security services to board the train, tag and bag everyone and apply extraordinary rendition to a holding camp in Cuba. The evidence for this is clear - has anyone actually on the train sold their story to the papers? Do we know anything about their emotional journey, or how it takes courage for them to travel by train in case the ghost of Jimmy Savile appears? It is truly the dog that did not bark in the night! Typical Tory Scum Tactics.

 

[Holly]

All mps should be made to travel cattle class unless they are willing to pay out of their own pocket. Remember we're all in this together!!

Hardly. This is the United Kingdom, has no-one any pride left?

The railways should be obliged to provide ticketless first class travel to all MPs at all times. As an essential part of being a railway, a public service, in the first place. So that they may better represent the people.

Yes, including members of the House of Lords. And the Lords Spiritual.
This is Britain for gosh sakes, not some tin pot country.

 

[Flamingo]

And there you see the true cunning of the politico. By arranging for the "story" to be tweeted (and, if the story from the journalist above was accurate, even less of a story, as the guard was sought out!) it was inevitable that a media scrum would form, and all attention was directed away from the passengers. This allowed the security services to board the train, tag and bag everyone and apply extraordinary rendition to a holding camp in Cuba. The evidence for this is clear - has anyone actually on the train sold their story to the papers? Do we know anything about their emotional journey, or how it takes courage for them to travel by train in case the ghost of Jimmy Savile appears? It is truly the dog that did not bark in the night! Typical Tory Scum Tactics.

You forgot to include this...

 

[jon0844]

And there you see the true cunning of the politico. By arranging for the "story" to be tweeted (and, if the story from the journalist above was accurate, even less of a story, as the guard was sought out!) it was inevitable that a media scrum would form, and all attention was directed away from the passengers. This allowed the security services to board the train, tag and bag everyone and apply extraordinary rendition to a holding camp in Cuba. The evidence for this is clear - has anyone actually on the train sold their story to the papers? Do we know anything about their emotional journey, or how it takes courage for them to travel by train in case the ghost of Jimmy Savile appears? It is truly the dog that did not bark in the night! Typical Tory Scum Tactics.

And wouldn't you know it; Virgin has just won the contract to run Guantanamo Bay for the next 15 years. We've all been set up!

 

[Flamingo]

She later said: "George Osborne got on the train with aides at Wilmslow and went straight to first class. Then his aide approached the ticket collector right next to me. He said he is travelling with George and he has a standard ticket but can he remain in first class? The guard said no. The aide said Osborne couldn't possibly sit in standard class. The guard replied saying if he wants to stay it's £160. The aide said he couldn't pay and he couldn't really sit in standard. The guard refused to budge. The guard went on gathering tickets and later told me Osborne had agreed to cough up the £160."

If this is the story, it sounds like the boss had a 1st class ticket and the aide had a STD class ticket, and was trying to blag it. I've had this several times, with politicians and their aides, celebs and their PA's / producers, people working for charities ("but the upgrade will come out of our charitable funds") and lots of ordinary business people and their colleagues.

It usually ends with an upgrade, or everybody sitting in STD. Again, a non-story, and a pretty common occurrence.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

did that in fact happen? The only way would be to get them sign the Official secrets act & I am sure not all in first would be willing.

Legally you don't have to have actually signed the Act in order to be prosecuted under it; it applies to everyone. The procedure of signing it is usually only carried out where people work with sensitive information as a means of showing that they recognise the nature of the information they deal with as a matter of routine.

If you came across a highly sensitive document that had been left lying around and you leaked what was in it, then you could well be prosecuted under the Act whether or not you had signed it.

 

[krisk]

I worked that train and have full knowledge of it all.