General Election 2017: The Results and Aftermath

[yorksrob]

With so many people seemingly prepared to vote for a candidate with socialist policies, perhaps we are finally seeing the beginning of the end of Sir Keith Joseph's ill fated experiment in to absence of Government !

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm surprised to see Barry Sheerman is still MP for Huddersfield, not because I expected Labour to lose but because he must be getting on a bit by now.

He's held the seat as long as I can remember. During the Blair years he irritated me (I was one of his constituents at the time) by voting AGAINST the ban on fox hunting. Then again he does chair the Education Select Committee so must have the respect of the house in general.

Edit. Elected in 1979, so he's held the seat longer than I've existed! Born in 1940 so he's 76/77 now.

 

[northwichcat]

With so many people seemingly prepared to vote for a candidate with socialist policies, perhaps we are finally seeing the beginning of the end of Sir Keith Joseph's ill fated experiment in to absence of Government !

Are all the Labour candidates socialists now? I'm under the impression there's still a significant number of Labour MPs who became Labour MPs while Blair was leader. Better tell Corbyn that Mr Woodcock has become a socialist - he'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[yorksrob]

Are all the Labour candidates socialists now? I'm under the impression there's still a significant number of Labour MPs who became Labour MPs while Blair was leader. Better tell Corbyn that Mr Woodcock has become a socialist - he'll be pleasantly surprised.

The Parliamentary labour party is a law unto itself as it always has been, however the fact remains that people vote for a party and a manifesto in general elections, rather than a local MP.

 

[northwichcat]

The Parliamentary labour party is a law unto itself as it always has been, however the fact remains that people vote for a party and a manifesto in general elections, rather than a local MP.

The Labour manifesto contains a mix of left of centre policies and some bordering on being socialist. It's certainly not Corbyn's dream manifesto, he's compromised in most areas.

 

[northwichcat]

He's held the seat as long as I can remember. During the Blair years he irritated me (I was one of his constituents at the time) by voting AGAINST the ban on fox hunting. Then again he does chair the Education Select Committee so must have the respect of the house in general.

Edit. Elected in 1979, so he's held the seat longer than I've existed! Born in 1940 so he's 76/77 now.

I voted for the Lib Dem candidate in the 2005 election when I was living in Huddersfield. For the Kirklees local council elections the ward I lived in the Labour candidates always finished up last but the Greens always came first or second.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I voted for the Lib Dem candidate in the 2005 election when I was living in Huddersfield. For the Kirklees local council elections the ward I lived in the Labour candidates always finished up last but the Greens always came first or second.

Though a member of the Labour party, I do often vote Green in local elections. In Kirklees there are a couple of long standing Green councillors who have done good work for several years. In particular in the Newsome ward which has a high student population.

 

[yorksrob]

The Labour manifesto contains a mix of left of centre policies and some bordering on being socialist. It's certainly not Corbyn's dream manifesto, he's compromised in most areas.

It's policies still contain a lot more that could be described as socialist than anything offered by Labour since Maggie was in her prime.

 

[507021]

I wonder if a new election will get called once everything to do with Brexit has been completed. btw with the Fixed Parliaments Act (or whatever it's called) General Elections are meant to be every 5 years so will the next one be in 2020 or will the clock have been "reset" and the next one be in 2022?

In theory at least, the next election should be in 2022 as the five year period has been reset.

 

[Y961 XBU]

I cant see May lasting 5 years so i would expect one soon, maybe even within the next 12 months

 

[fowler9]

People seem to have a funny relationship with the term hard left these days mainly thanks to Tony Blair. Hard Left is like anything the Tories wouldn't do. Fair enough you may say but then you get the right wing press making off the cuff remarks about communism etc and it all gets a bit daft.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder how many people on this forum were eligible to vote in the mid-1980s.

Being born in 1945, I was eligible to vote in the mid-1960s, twenty years before the mid-1980s as stated above.

 

[bnm]

If you include Cameron (with a Conservative led coalition) then out of the last 7 parliaments there's only been one Labour PM who's not called an election after 4 years and one Conservative PM who's not waited a full 5 years before calling an election. I wonder how many people on this forum were eligible to vote in the mid-1980s.

So, your 'generally' is actually a very narrowly defined last seven parliaments including a Conservative minority. Not very general, or statistically meaningful, really.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

People seem to have a funny relationship with the term hard left these days mainly thanks to Tony Blair. Hard Left is like anything the Tories wouldn't do. Fair enough you may say but then you get the right wing press making off the cuff remarks about communism etc and it all gets a bit daft.

Increasing taxes for people earning over £80,000, what next, Lenin statues in Trafalgar Square...

 

[507021]

Increasing taxes for people earning over £80,000, what next, Lenin statues in Trafalgar Square...

Are you serious? :roll:

 

[AlterEgo]

This map tends to indicate that they are on the 'lighter' end of the attendance scale.

Must be confirmation bias on my part. I am regularly in Parliament for committee meetings and seem to almost always see Jim Shannon there, along with others like Jeffrey Donaldson.

 

[Senex]

I cant see May lasting 5 years so i would expect one soon, maybe even within the next 12 months

Won't she desperately try to survive until the boundary changes kick in?

 

[takno]

Increasing taxes for people earning over £80,000, what next, Lenin statues in Trafalgar Square...

Shared ownership of the means of water distribution? The comrades will have control of the bins next!

 

[Senex]

Increasing taxes for people earning over £80,000, what next, Lenin statues in Trafalgar Square...

But it wouldn't stop there. The next step would be anyone over £50,000, the anyone over £30,000 .... All to carry on taking money from those who aspire, earn, and contribute and hand it over to the socialist claimant brigade.

 

[A Challenge]

Being born in 1945, I was eligible to vote in the mid-1960s, twenty years before the mid-1980s as stated above.

Are you the oldest on the forum?

 

[takno]

Won't she desperately try to survive until the boundary changes kick in?

I'm not at all convinced the boundary changes will benefit them as much as they are assuming. They're not worth more than about 20 seats by most estimations anyway.

In any case, even with the DUP their majority is small, and a number of Tory and DUP backbenchers will be looking at losing their seats in the changes. I doubt they could get them through parliament if they aren't yet approved.

 

[3141]

Pro brexit: Old people Anti brexit: Young people
Conservative: Old people Labour: Young people

So in 4 or 8 years Labour will will the elections.

You really shouldn't make such generalisations. I'm 77 and voted to remain, and so did many of my friends of a similar age. Though my wife voted to leave.

If you include Cameron (with a Conservative led coalition) then out of the last 7 parliaments there's only been one Labour PM who's not called an election after 4 years and one Conservative PM who's not waited a full 5 years before calling an election. I wonder how many people on this forum were eligible to vote in the mid-1980s.

Take a longer view.

Labour 1945-50; 1950-51; 1964-66; 1966-70; 1974-74; 1974-79; 1997-2001; 2001-2005; 2005-2010.

Three Labour administrations went for five years, and the reason James Callaghan waited till 1979 was that he feared he’d lose if he went to the country earlier, though he lost in the end anyway. Same with Gordon Brown (more or less). Harold Wilson didn’t have to call an election in 1970 and unexpectedly lost it. He called a second election in 1974 hoping for a bigger majority but didn't get it.

Conservative: 1951-55; 1955-59; 1959-64; 1970-74; 1979-83; 1983-87; 1987-92; 1992-97; 2010-15 (coalition); 2015-17.

Three Conservative administrations chose to continue for five years. In 1959-64 they stayed to the end in the hope they might win, but didn’t. Held on to the end in 1987-92 for the same reason, and unexpectedly did win. Tried again in 1992-97, and didn’t. Fixed five-year term 2010-15. Edward Heath 1970-74 more or less forced to call an election as a result of miners’ strike.

I don’t think either party has a different record from the other. They called elections when they hoped to win, and they hung on when they seemed likely to lose and hoped things might suddenly go better.

 

[najaB]

DUP agrees 'confidence' deal with Tories

The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) has agreed in principle a "confidence and supply" deal to support a Conservative government, it has been announced.
Theresa May was left eight seats short of an overall majority in the general election, while the DUP won 10 seats.
Tory chief whip Gavin Williamson went to Belfast on Saturday for talks with the Northern Irish party.
Downing Street said the of the outline deal details would be discussed at a cabinet meeting on Monday.
Any agreement would come into force when Parliament returns next week.

Does this mean that Mrs May was stretching the facts a bit when she went to see HM the Queen.?

 

[3141]

Are you the oldest on the forum?

I predate the Second World War by three weeks. But I doubt that I'm the oldest.

 

[me123]

DUP agrees 'confidence' deal with Tories
Does this mean that Mrs May was stretching the facts a bit when she went to see HM the Queen.?

Probably not. She'll have wanted to appear "strong and stable" (she's going to come to loathe those words, isn''t she? ) and wanted to go ahead as quickly as possible. There was little doubt that the DUP would support May, at the very least as an anti-Corbyn manoeuvre. I would imagine that an agreement in principle ("we will support TM") would have been very easy to come by, allowing TM to say that she could command a majority of the house. What we're seeing now is the finer points of the deal.

 

[3141]

In fact it is not essential to have an absolute majority, though it can make government a great deal easier if you do. The key question is whether you can get legislation passed. You can do that from a minority position if there's one other political group that will back you on one thing, and another that will back you on something else. You might even manage without any other group's support, if you believed there were enough MPs who'd abstain rather than see you defeated, leading to an election in which some smaller group might get wiped out. As the leader of the party with the largest number of seats TM can quite legitimately tell the Queen that she believes she can form a government. If she fails the Queen can then ask someone else. Is there anyone else who is more likely than TM to put a working majority together in this Parliament? It doesn't appear so.

But whether a minority administration relying on another group's support, which even then only has a very small overall majority, can last very long when dealing with the major issue of Brexit, remains to be seen.

 

[me123]

In fact it is not essential to have an absolute majority, though it can make government a great deal easier if you do.

Tell that to TM and the Conservatives. They've made a big deal over the last few years of a majority government being essential to the functioning of the country. (Need I say it again, "Strong and Stable").

They are required to command the support of the house, and although that's not necessarily a majority, for a minority leader like TM she'll need to demonstrate that she can command the support. Fairly easy for her to achieve with the support of the DUP. Even without the DUP though (assuming they abstained on everything, for example) she could still get things through assuming all her MPs are loyal. The DUP is the safety net.

 

[3141]

Tell that to TM and the Conservatives. They've made a big deal over the last few years of a majority government being essential to the functioning of the country. (Need I say it again, "Strong and Stable").

They are required to command the support of the house, and although that's not necessarily a majority, for a minority leader like TM she'll need to demonstrate that she can command the support. Fairly easy for her to achieve with the support of the DUP. Even without the DUP though (assuming they abstained on everything, for example) she could still get things through assuming all her MPs are loyal. The DUP is the safety net.

I entirely agree with your second paragraph, which I think aligns with what I said in my post just before yours, so I'm unclear why your first paragraph says "Tell that to TM and the Conservatives", as if you were disagreeing.

 

[me123]

Just highlighting that the Conservatives seem to be under the impression that a majority government is the only way to function. As evidenced by the election leaflets, campaign, attitude... The Tories seem to be under the impression that no-one (including themselves) can govern as a minority.

 

[Busaholic]

If you are referring to the leader of a party who actually recorded the worst total seat loss, you can only be referring to Nicola Sturgeon of the Scottish National Party whose insistence on a second referendum most certainly was a major reason for this occurrence that saw them lose no less than 21 of their seats.

The Conservative Party only lost a net total of 12 seats.

I can't send straws through this forum, otherwise I'd send a Special Delivery so you'd have some to desperately clutch : oh, late news! All available straws have been airlifted to a Mrs May in Downing Street.