GC vs NXEC

[adambro]

For gods sake, Leeds is also a gated station, you cannot pass without a valid ticket. Its for security, especially since 7/7. Its GC who are upsetting this, not NXEC.

To say barriers at Leeds has anything to do with 7/7 is very questionable and, as has been previously noted, the effectiveness of the barrier is very low considering that the station would grind to a halt it it was attempted to check everyone's ticket. Ticket barriers at Leeds do nothing to reduce the risk of terrorism.

 

[Tom C]

They're not thats why I say "when in force" because every now and then they are indeed putting on barriers, which they are entitled to do!

The principle operator of a station have the right to conduct revenue blocks as and when they please providing that the persons present are authorised collectors. I am not completely sure about secondary operators however from experience they can block a station they don't manage providing they have permission from the principle operator.

In the past I have also been involved in revenue blocks at stations where my TOC don't serve as we were invited by the operator of that station and I have the authority to issue on behalf of that operator (which is listed on my warrant).

 

[Spaceflower]

Ticket barriers at Leeds do nothing to reduce the risk of terrorism.

they could at short notice during a heightened risk of an attack. In the whole though I agree with you, but they do serve a useful purpose and I almost always had my tickets checked when entering/leaving the platforms.

 

[theblackwatch]

The figures show increase in passenger numbers from stations served by GC to London. This does not demonstrate new rail growth, as ive said a number of times, these passengers may have previously travelled from durham, darlo, york, ect. The document lacks any real supporting evidence.

Out of interest, what evidence do you have that "these passengers may have previously travelled from durham, darlo, york, ect"? Or is these merely an opinion with nothing to substantiate it?

 

[87015]

Out of interest, what evidence do you have that "these passengers may have previously travelled from durham, darlo, york, ect"? Or is these merely an opinion with nothing to substantiate it?

And even so surely travelling direct from wherever rather than driving to Durham etc is better in the first place in reducing road congestion if nothing else

 

[Spaceflower]

Out of interest, what evidence do you have that "these passengers may have previously travelled from durham, darlo, york, ect"? Or is these merely an opinion with nothing to substantiate it?

its a probability for want of a better word. Nothing more. All I'm arguing against is the 'other opinion' being a foregone conclusion. That and I just like arguing.

And even so surely travelling direct from wherever rather than driving to Durham etc is better in the first place in reducing road congestion if nothing else

__________________I live in the real world, better it may or may not be. The fact is the ECML is more attractive and accessible from personal experience.

Theres two interchanges on Teeside now, within a couple of miles of each othe both competing for similar traffic Eaglescliffe and Thornaby?

 

[Metroland]

I wouldn't bother debating with them William, it always has been making it up as you go along on here.

The National Express East coast website tells you

'Tickets are available on board'

But that doesn't mean you can walk through a barrier either.

It was quite clear from the documents I posted up, there was extraction from other operators, but using only half the information this lot of decided they are right.

I give up, You might as well bang your head against the wall.

 

[Spaceflower]

Not at all, theres plenty of interesting debate and valid points here.

 

[BlueGrey]

I wouldn't bother debating with them William, it always has been making it up as you go along on here.

Well it's managed by them. Staff helping little old ladies on GC trains, selling tickets and so on. No operator works in isolation, pity some members on here can't give them their 10% cut, but then there's nothing like irrationality. They are also paying a premium to keep branch lines open (like the Durham coast) and not keeping it to themselves like GC. For an enthusiast it makes more sense to give NXEC money if they want to see rural lines open - although I'm not saying they shouldn't support GC as well.

I could be wrong but surely you are making up the fact NXEC is paying a premium to keep branch lines like the Durham coast open. NXEC are paying a premium to be allowed to operate an extremely lucrative franchise with huge numbers of 1st class business travellers. Further more as has already been pointed out NXEC must surely have known about GC when they entered there bid to run East Coast. Nobody forced them to offer to pay a premium to run East Coast that is what they decided to bid.

 

[theblackwatch]

its a probability for want of a better word. Nothing more. All I'm arguing against is the 'other opinion' being a foregone conclusion. That and I just like arguing.

__________________I live in the real world, better it may or may not be. The fact is the ECML is more attractive and accessible from personal experience.

Theres two interchanges on Teeside now, within a couple of miles of each othe both competing for similar traffic Eaglescliffe and Thornaby?

I'd like to see some figures to back up your probability that infers passengers have abandoned Durham and Darlington stations. I'd also be interested to know if there are any other residents of the likes of Sunderland and Hartlepool who would prefer to have to make their way to Durham or Darlington to join a train to London than cathc a direct service. (If there is anyone here, please shout - similarly, if you're from there and prefer a direct GC service, also please say so).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Yorkie - You say GC and NXEC should obey the laws they are given, yet you say to passengers that they should break the railway byelaws and that you would too, this is, frankly, hypocritical. Not meant as an insult, just a fact.

The byelaws are quite specific, you cannot board a train with out a ticket unless there was no facility to get one at the start of your journey (unlikely at York), there was a notice on the station to that effect, or that an authorised person gave you permission.

It is that simple. It can't be argued with.

You could, in theory, go into the ticket office of GC (Max says there is one at York) or infact NXEC, and get them to tell you that you can buy onboard, and get their details as perscribed in the byelaws, but that would really be pointless as you might aswell buy the ticket there.

Max - A sign on the departure board would give you permission to buy on the train so it does seem strange that the notice would be on the boards at Kings Cross and not York.

However, the Byelaws do say "A person acting in the course of his duties, who is an employee or agent of a train operating company". A website, no matter how good, could never be a person, even if it was an agent.

 

[Metroland]

Buying tickets on board

Tickets are available on board but, to minimise fare evasion, you will only be able to buy either First or Standard Open tickets, or First or Standard Day tickets for single or return journeys. No discounts are available on any ticket bought on board unless you have a Disabled Person's Railcard.

http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/Travel-Information/General-ticket-information/

What's good for the goose is good for that gander? Will they still walk through barriers because *this* apparently 'gives permission'?

 

[paul1609]

Yorkie - You say GC and NXEC should obey the laws they are given, yet you say to passengers that they should break the railway byelaws and that you would too, this is, frankly, hypocritical. Not meant as an insult, just a fact.

The byelaws are quite specific, you cannot board a train with out a ticket unless there was no facility to get one at the start of your journey (unlikely at York), there was a notice on the station to that effect, or that an authorised person gave you permission.

It is that simple. It can't be argued with.

You could, in theory, go into the ticket office of GC (Max says there is one at York) or infact NXEC, and get them to tell you that you can buy onboard, and get their details as perscribed in the byelaws, but that would really be pointless as you might aswell buy the ticket there.

Max - A sign on the departure board would give you permission to buy on the train so it does seem strange that the notice would be on the boards at Kings Cross and not York.

However, the Byelaws do say "A person acting in the course of his duties, who is an employee or agent of a train operating company". A website, no matter how good, could never be a person, even if it was an agent.

The difference in attitude at Kings Cross and York is because Kings Cross is operated by Network Rail and York by NXEC. Its the same on Southern where Network Rail operate London Victoria and Gatwick Airport.