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GBRf Class 99 - 30 locomotives now ordered

littledude

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They will have a TOPS number allocated, and it can be aligned in the 'national block' of the EVN. The EVN has a 4-digit section for the national type number and a 3-digit section for the national serial number of that type.
UIC registered wagons don’t have a domestic number allocated (for the most part) and TOPS copes just fine with 12 digit numbers. A consist for a train with UIC wagons will show 10 digits, omitting the first 2 digits (the exchange code)
 
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zwk500

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UIC registered wagons don’t have a domestic number allocated (for the most part) and TOPS copes just fine with 12 digit numbers. A consist for a train with UIC wagons will show 10 digits, omitting the first 2 digits (the exchange code)
Apologies I thought it was discussing specifically locos not all rolling stock in general.
 

D365

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I suspect it would actually be more than just a trip to the depot because apart from the yaw dampers, the software on the loco will need changing, possibly also cab signage for max speed etc.
It would be my guess that Stadler will build some with the ETS supply and once the initial build of 99s have settled into traffic and proved their capabilities, then the ETS variant will be commissioned and enter traffic as 991xx, remaining in that configuration.
They are unlikely to be 991xx as the Belmond Britannic Explorer vehicles are numbered in that series.
As per the aforementioned Rail Magazine article, the /4 subclass is being mooted for ETS equipped Class 99s.
 

hwl

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Out of interest, does the main transformer have multiple secondary windings to feed the traction inverters e.g. one per inverter?
The architecture used across the European, Chinese and Japanese electric (or multimode) locomotive OEMs is to have split electrical systems with one DC bus per end / bogie (providing redundancy, there is some cross feed capacity between the two) with 2 or 3 secondary taps feeding each end (providing redundancy, the number depending on total power and optimising transformer cooling rather than being Bo-Bo or Co-Co related), an extra tap for ETS (no redundancy) and the locomotive auxiliary loads being dual fed from both DC buses under normal conditions.
I agree about diesel + ETS being effectively limited to lower ETS loads (in normal usage), but I guess having a high enough output for a full Caley sleeper load might be useful for unplanned diversions etc.
With a full 16 coach sleeper on diesel it would result in Class 25 level traction performance due to ETS loads, probably not good idea. It will more than keep the lights and HVAC on though.
8 coach to Inverness with a 99 should be about 60% of the available traction energy from a pair 73s or 60% more than single 73. The big question is if the timings are relaxed enough north of Dunblane on the diesel section. This will need detailed investigation.
For the shorter Fort William/Aberdeen portions a 99 on diesel would have 45-50% more traction power than 73 and far better adhesion so an obvious swap.

The smaller than 66 fuel tank would might mean a close eye on fuel consumption and careful diagramming is needed.
 

Bald Rick

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8 coach to Inverness with a 99 should be about 60% of the available traction energy from a pair 73s or 60% more than single 73. The big question is if the timings are relaxed enough north of Dunblane on the diesel section. This will need detailed investigation.

The obvious solution to that is to electrify the uphill sections :lol:
 

Nottingham59

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With a full 16 coach sleeper on diesel it would result in Class 25 level traction performance due to ETS loads, probably not good idea.
But I thought 16-coach running was all under the wires?

8 coach to Inverness with a 99 should be about 60% of the available traction energy from a pair 73s or 60% more than single 73.
How does that work out? What's the power output of a 73 on diesel? And how much hotel power does an 8-coach sleeper use?
 

800001

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But I thought 16-coach running was all under the wires?


How does that work out? What's the power output of a 73 on diesel? And how much hotel power does an 8-coach sleeper use?
It is. The poster was on about diversions on diesel.
 

xotGD

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Well a 99 has got a bit more of a chance of getting the 16 coaches over the S&C than when a 92 is on the front.

Or, more sensibly, to keep going when the power is off on the WCML.
 

BRX

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Seems like they could quite easily do a 99+66 in such a scenario, as they will be able to work in multiple and the 99 could provide train power.
 

99009

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Assuming there's anyone else interested, 99001+99002 are still at Whitemoor having arrived on Thursday 3rd July 2025 behind 66734. No obvious paths for their next departure are currently showing on RTT.
 

xotGD

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Seems like they could quite easily do a 99+66 in such a scenario, as they will be able to work in multiple and the 99 could provide train power.
If a 99 can't manage load 8 on diesel then it isn't exactly the game changer we all think it is.
 

xotGD

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I'm talking about the load 16 on diversion scenario.
Sorry - got you.

The 99 on its own should be able to proceed at reduced speed when the power is off unexpectedly for a section of the route.
 

hwl

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Well a 99 has got a bit more of a chance of getting the 16 coaches over the S&C than when a 92 is on the front.

Or, more sensibly, to keep going when the power is off on the WCML.
Sorry - got you.

The 99 on its own should be able to proceed at reduced speed when the power is off unexpectedly for a section of the route.
Exactly but it would be painfully slow in places.

Before taking ETS into account the medium and high speed traction performance on diesel will be similar to a 47, after including ETS much worse...
 

ac6000cw

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Is it envisaged that the ETS would be at 1500v, as is the case with the 92s used on the sleeper?
See hwl's post upthread - the answer is 'yes'.

Exactly but it would be painfully slow in places.

Before taking ETS into account the medium and high speed traction performance on diesel will be similar to a 47, after including ETS much worse...
I guess that in the event of a planned diversion (of a full 16-car train) that involved substantial off-wire haulage they might add a 66 on the front, as the 99 has AAR MU capability?
 

Nym

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Exactly but it would be painfully slow in places.

Before taking ETS into account the medium and high speed traction performance on diesel will be similar to a 47, after including ETS much worse...

Are you sure about that? Or are you just taking the power rating of a 47 and applying that to 60 year old newer technology…?
 

Bryson

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Exactly but it would be painfully slow in places.

Before taking ETS into account the medium and high speed traction performance on diesel will be similar to a 47, after including ETS much worse...
Wouldn't the 47 also need to be providing ETS?
 

ac6000cw

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Are you sure about that? Or are you just taking the power rating of a 47 and applying that to 60 year old newer technology…?
Based on what I can find, a class 47 is around 2100hp (1565kW) power-at-rail (over the medium-speed range - it falls off over about 75mph).

A 99 on diesel starts off with 2400hp (1790kW) at the crankshaft. The usual rule of thumb is around 10% of that is absorbed in the necessary auxiliaries (like cooling fans, pumps, compressors etc.), leaving around 2160hp (1610kW). Transmission efficiency should be higher than a 47, but even if you assume only 5% loss that's 2052hp (1530kW) at rail - so pretty similar to a 47, but with much better haulage performance at low speeds.

What's your take on the diesel performance of a 99?
 

hwl

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Are you sure about that? Or are you just taking the power rating of a 47 and applying that to 60 year old newer technology…?
Very sure
Wouldn't the 47 also need to be providing ETS?
It would and the 99 will be comparatively less impacted providing the same ETS loads slightly more efficiently, hence starting off looking at the traction only impact first.
 

Obar123

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Assuming there's anyone else interested, 99001+99002 are still at Whitemoor having arrived on Thursday 3rd July 2025 behind 66734. No obvious paths for their next departure are currently showing on RTT.
Apparently they are there as it is a very high security yard, unlike Peterborough, to avoid any graffiti attacks!
 

99009

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Apparently they are there as it is a very high security yard, unlike Peterborough, to avoid any graffiti attacks!
Thank you for replying, I appreciate that. As soon as I see a path that appears to suggest their next move I'll post it here, unless someone else beats me to it.
 

Roast Veg

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Lots of rumours that the GBRf Class 60s won’t be with the company in 2026.
This is surprising, since they don't seem to have anything else in the fleet capable of replacing them, least of all the 99s. Are they planning on giving up the contracts currently serviced by these?
 

sjpowermac

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This is surprising, since they don't seem to have anything else in the fleet capable of replacing them, least of all the 99s. Are they planning on giving up the contracts currently serviced by these?
Which particular flows are you thinking of? The Drax-Tyne trains are often diagrammed for Class 66s anyhow and there was no increase in weight on the stone trains out of Rylstone when they switched back to Class 60s. Other than the stone trains out of Horton, I’m struggling to think of any GBRf flows that Class 60s have worked exclusively. Presumably if the Horton trains are beyond a regular Class 66 then a re-geared Class 66 would be capable.
 

ac6000cw

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The discussion of GBRf cl 60s and re-geared 66s sounds like speculation to me and/or off-topic for this thread?
 

The_Train

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The discussion of GBRf cl 60s and re-geared 66s sounds like speculation to me and/or off-topic for this thread?
Maybe so but this forum has a team of moderators and admin to decide on things like this. If you are unhappy with posts being made, report them
 

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