GB rail map (as a graph)

[Tester]

If you would include RER lines in Paris, then you should include Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line - they are very much equivalent.

 

[zwk500]

So, I try to simplify. Here is the schematic (without the High Speed Line). Two lines ZZZ and ZZY are added. Do I forget any spur?

Lines ZZY (which ORM has a TRL9) and ZZZ (which ORM has as ISL2) do not connect to SPC2, but only to HS1 (ELR is TRL1 in this area). There is also a Spur from CRF1 to TLR1 towards stratford.

If you are excluding HS1 I would Exclude ZZY/ZZZ as well, as they do not allow trains to travel from the MML. It is functionally as separate from HS1 as Euston or King's Cross.

So, I correct Clapham Junction in the schematic below (RDG1 in orange, BML1 in blue)

This is very nearly there, you're just missing a connection from RDG1 to the Junction of BSP2/CKL (this connection is FLL2). Depending on what you want this map to show you could merged RDG1 and BML once they're beyond the junction with SCC. There's connections but arguably they can't really be treated as a single 8-track line until Waterloo itself (and even then you can't go fully side-to-side at any point).

Out of interest what are your data sources?

 

[sfiliste]

Lines ZZY (which ORM has a TRL9) and ZZZ (which ORM has as ISL2) do not connect to SPC2, but only to HS1 (ELR is TRL1 in this area). There is also a Spur from CRF1 to TLR1 towards stratford.

If you are excluding HS1 I would Exclude ZZY/ZZZ as well, as they do not allow trains to travel from the MML. It is functionally as separate from HS1 as Euston or King's Cross.

Sorry, but I dont understand. Is it possible for a train to
- leave St Pancras and then go to CRF1 line per ZZY (Eastbound)
- leave St Pancras and then go to CRF1 line per ZZZ (Westbound)

Or does it mean that I have to represent two lines leaving St Pancras to split the station between
- St Pancras (platform 1 to 4) going only to SPC1
- St Pancras international part (platform 5 to 10) going to TRL1

New schematic below.

This is very nearly there, you're just missing a connection from RDG1 to the Junction of BSP2/CKL (this connection is FLL2).

Depending on what you want this map to show you could merged RDG1 and BML once they're beyond the junction with SCC. There's connections but arguably they can't really be treated as a single 8-track line until Waterloo itself (and even then you can't go fully side-to-side at any point).

I try to add it. New schematic below.

Out of interest what are your data sources?

GitHub - openraildata/network-rail-gis: Geospatial information released by Network Rail

Geospatial information released by Network Rail. Contribute to openraildata/network-rail-gis development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[The exile]

In Scotland, more trains run to Oban than to Fort William.

And if you're going to include either of them, then Aberdeen - Inverness, which has far more services, should probably be in there as well.

 

[sfiliste]

Hello everyone,

The new map is now this one.
I just need to check London, then I can provide the data set to the forum, after final extraction of the arcs and nodes.

 

[zwk500]

Sorry, but I dont understand. Is it possible for a train to
- leave St Pancras and then go to CRF1 line per ZZY (Eastbound)
- leave St Pancras and then go to CRF1 line per ZZZ (Westbound)

Your map is very nearly correct - all existing links shown are correct, but you are missing 1 extra link from TRL2 direction to CRF1 (it would join at the same junction as ZZZ/CRF1.

If you leave St Pancras 1-4 you can only go to SPC1.
If you leave St Pancras 5-13 you can go to BOK, ECM, or TRL2.
Coming from BOK you can go to St Pancras, TRL2 or ECM,
Coming from TRL2 you can go to St Pancras or BOK.

I think ZZZ is ISL2 and ZZY is ISL1 going by ORM and the HS1 Sectional Appendix.

Or does it mean that I have to represent two lines leaving St Pancras to split the station between
- St Pancras (platform 1 to 4) going only to SPC1
- St Pancras international part (platform 5 to 10) going to TRL1

The station should be split. I don't think it needs to be split down as far as 5-10 and 11-13.

Clapham Junction now looks right.

 

[Annetts key]

Keep in mind that the vast majority of passenger trains go via Weston-super-Mare and "the loop line" (WSM). Only non-stop / limited stop passenger trains and freight use the main line (locally called "the avoider"). Obviously the route via WSM is slightly longer in both distance and time.

 

[Watershed]

Keep in mind that the vast majority of passenger trains go via Weston-super-Mare and "the loop line" (WSM). Only non-stop / limited stop passenger trains and freight use the main line (locally called "the avoider"). Obviously the route via WSM is slightly longer in both distance and time.

Similarly for Westbury.

 

[zwk500]

Hello everyone,

The new map is now this one.
I just need to check London, then I can provide the data set to the forum, after final extraction of the arcs and nodes.

You've omitted many lines that while not 'main lines' in the traditional sense are busier or more important than some lines you have included.

Brighton-Seaford and South Croydon-East Grinstead being left off while Marshlink is included is a confusing choice. Kent is also dramtically oversimplified yet the line via Melksham is included.

 

[ainsworth74]

You've omitted many lines that while not 'main lines' in the traditional sense are busier or more important than some lines you have omitted.

Yes I'm not convinced by the omission of Darlington to Saltburn (which sees reasonable amount of freight flows along with passenger services) but the inclusion of York to Scarborough. This is the services at Malton (midway between Scarborough and York) and the services at Thornaby today. Which is more important? Or omitting the line between Sunderland and Newcastle which sees again freight as well as Northern services and 5tph TW Metro services each way (as far as Pelaw junction when they branch off onto their own infrastructure).

Surely either of those warrants inclusion above Scarborough (not wishing to bad mouth the good people of Scarborough mind you!).

 

[PLY2AYS]

You've omitted many lines that while not 'main lines' in the traditional sense are busier or more important than some lines you have omitted.

Brighton-Seaford and South Croydon-East Grinstead being left off while Marshlink is included is a confusing choice. Kent is also dramtically oversimplified yet the line via Melksham is included.

Agree with both of those; similarly with the Chiltern Mainline.

 

[sfiliste]

Your map is very nearly correct - all existing links shown are correct, but you are missing 1 extra link from TRL2 direction to CRF1 (it would join at the same junction as ZZZ/CRF1.

If you leave St Pancras 1-4 you can only go to SPC1.
If you leave St Pancras 5-13 you can go to BOK, ECM, or TRL2.
Coming from BOK you can go to St Pancras, TRL2 or ECM,
Coming from TRL2 you can go to St Pancras or BOK.

I think ZZZ is ISL2 and ZZY is ISL1 going by ORM and the HS1 Sectional Appendix.

The station should be split. I don't think it needs to be split down as far as 5-10 and 11-13.

Clapham Junction now looks right.

Thank you for all your help. New version of St Pancras with ZZZ -> ISL2 ; ZZY -> ISL1 ; new link from TRL2 to CRF1 in orange which is ZZX

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2025 ==

Keep in mind that the vast majority of passenger trains go via Weston-super-Mare and "the loop line" (WSM). Only non-stop / limited stop passenger trains and freight use the main line (locally called "the avoider"). Obviously the route via WSM is slightly longer in both distance and time.

OK. I add it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2025 ==

Similarly for Westbury.

OK. But it was already drawn per Westbury.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2025 ==

Brighton-Seaford and South Croydon-East Grinstead being left off while Marshlink is included is a confusing choice. Kent is also dramtically oversimplified yet the line via Melksham is included.

I add some lines in Kent. I know how difficult is to simplify a map!

 

[endecotp]

Regarding which lines you should include:

The main objective is to be able to compute rail distances from A to B.

Then the approach you need to take is:

- First make a list of what "A" and "B" can be. Presumably these are stations above some level of importance, e.g. city population, catchment area, "places I've heard of", etc.
- Determine which lines you need to include in order to get correct answers for all A and B pairs.

In general, the second step is hard. You can make some easy simplifications: a dead-end line that doesn't serve any of your supported stations can clearly be omitted. (Example: Edinburgh-Tweedbank, if neither Tweedbank nor Galashiels is in your list.) Beyond that, you would really need to (1) enter all the lines, and (2) use an algorithm to determine which are not needed, and remove them.

Are you perhaps a computer science student doing this as a project? If so, are you aware of "contraction hierarchies"?

* You really do need to include London Farringdon, with links to Paddington, St Pancras, Liverpool Street and London Bridge *

 

[QueensCurve]

[GB – North]
Is the line from Motherwell to Lambert (and Stirling) an important line? It looks like it is the only way to go without turn back from West Coast line to Perth and Inverness ?

back in the 1980s, it only had two passenger services: The daytime Clansman service between Euston and Inverness via Birmingham and the Sleeper between Euston and Fort William (joining/leaving the rout at Gartsherrie South Junction). The latter was rerouted to reverse at Stirling about 1985 after an intruder stabbed a woman to death during the reversal at Cowlairs. Both services did the diesel/electric loco swap at Mossend Yard.

I think they have more services and now and the route is fully electrified.

 

[The exile]

I think they have more services and now and the route is fully electrified.

Various local services have been introduced since that between them cover the whole route - but for the time being no single passenger service uses it end to end.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

back in the 1980s, it only had two passenger services: The daytime Clansman service between Euston and Inverness via Birmingham and the Sleeper between Euston and Fort William (joining/leaving the rout at Gartsherrie South Junction). The latter was rerouted to reverse at Stirling about 1985 after an intruder stabbed a woman to death during the reversal at Cowlairs. Both services did the diesel/electric loco swap at Mossend Yard.

Also Sleeper from Euston to Inverness (Fort William was a portion off the Inverness train detached/attached at Mossend)