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Gaining access to train door control panels

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What makes this very sad is that the guard is only doing his job, the boys are just p*ssing about, the guard is being humiliated, and the fact that it is on youtube just makes it worse. The worst bit in my opinion is that the 'BTP' did nothing - it's as bad as happy slapping.

If rules aren't going to be enforced, there's no point in having them. How can we expect the guard to challenge behaviour like this, if the BTP aren't going to back him up and reprimand the trouble makers...

Two issues here as far as I'm concerned, both of which bring BTP's role into question.

1. Was an offence actually committed - i.e. did the boys break the law and if so, which one?

2. (and this is a general question) Is Youtube video evidence admissible in a court of law?

Presumably the SWT CCTV also caught the incident, and that video evidence would be admissible, but it certainly would not have been so clear and "in your face" as the Youtube stuff.
 
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ukrob

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I have reported the clip to youtube. Whether it's effective we'll wait and see.

On what grounds would they even consider removing it? They don't go around removing videos because someone has been a bit naughty (which, when it boils down to it, is all this clip is - that is certainly not to say I condone it). There are far worse things than this on YouTube which aren't removed!
 

michael769

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1. Was an offence actually committed - i.e. did the boys break the law and if so, which one?

yes - Interfering with the safe operation of the railways.

2. (and this is a general question) Is Youtube video evidence admissible in a court of law?

Yes - people have be successfully convicted of a variety of offences such as assault, speeding and dangerous driving on the strength of YT videos they have posted.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I suspect you could get a RoRA conviction for that, rather than a byelaw conviction.
 

185

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Total fail putting a PA handset in the guards panel. Guard should have took the T key off him.

Give him credit though, it was actually mildly funny 3/10 :)
 

ATW Alex 101

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if u notice the comment below the vid it says he got told by BTP

i was sort of funny and had to lol at the guard but the guard was doingg his job and the lads were ****ing about
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I reported it too, but won't be holding my breath. I've reported this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZvm5H4F-aA
numerous times, as some seem to consider this dangerous act admirable, but it's still there.

aww come on mate be a bit lenient lol
that guy is a legend even at 34 i still think he is a legend i know its wrong but the best thing to do is just dont get yourself involved
 
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chris89

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Just really are idiots. But guessing for them simple things for simple minds.

Did report to train staff on my last journey that the Door controls pannel was broken on 390022 (Coach J closest to K coach) and did try to just shut it to, so did they but just left it as the actual mountings were not allowing it to be shut or something.

The train surfer was an idiot, so is any one who does things like that.

Chris
 

MidnightFlyer

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aww come on mate be a bit lenient lol
that guy is a legend even at 34 i still think he is a legend i know its wrong but the best thing to do is just dont get yourself involved

He was a legend you mean.

That is just plain idiotic, I won't be lenient on that, what a berk.
 

BestWestern

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This same clip cropped up here on a thread a while back. These people are certainly idiots, but to their slight credit their intentions did appear to be merely making a stupid announcement rather than interfering with the train doors or suchlike. Not that I condone their actions, and I would certainly hope the BTP would have arrested them rather than simply letting them off. The inevitable train/plane comparison seems apt here; what punishment would one expect if found to be using an illegitimate key of some type to access secure equipment on a passenger aircraft mid-flight? Rather more severe I would imagine :roll:

I totally agree with the comments regarding carriage keys ('T keys'), which are now well and truly in circulation amongst people who shouldn't have them, and can no longer be considered to offer the required level of security. It might be relatively uncommon for people who shouldn't have them to use them, but it does happen, and it shouldn't happen at all. I've known of Guards returning to the rear cab to find their kit bags missing, despite the door being locked upon their return. I know of a colleague who had a couple of herberts who decided to release all the train doors so that they could escape whilst the service was being held outside a station for the police to arrive. And as we all appreciate, one doesn't even need the key itself in many cases, there are plenty of other 'tools' which will suffice. It's a worry that somebody could quite easily gain access to the cab of a train in service, travelling at speed. TOC's need to develop a new, secure key, and then stop handing them out like sweets! In the past 6 months or so I've found several T keys, one in a luggage rack on a unit in service and one sitting on the stairs at Bristol TM! I'm glad I stumbled accross them before anybody else who might have picked them up. I'd happily accept a new set of keys with a replacement charge of 50 or 60 quid, if it meant the trains I worked were actually secure.
 

Fincra5

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yes in this case apparently the same key. In an Electrostar you need a completely different key. I'm still trying to get hold of a key for the Stewards panel. They are like gold dust!

Yeah you can gain access to the panel with a 'T' Key but you need a panel key to actually use it.

Such a design flaw to be able to use a panel without another key.
 

Hydro

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...and this is why most of our coaches with the equipment on are locked with special keys and the T-lock removed. Don't want anyone getting on and arsing about. Barrier and brake force vehicles still have T-Key locks, but are checked prior to every shift, normally dead bolted from the inside, and in any case there's nothing to steal or break in them. Just the risk of being transported far from home in the cold and dark, then locked in and abandoned for a few days.
 

notadriver

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Thankfully not many seem to have a BR1B key although I have seen some trolley buffet staff and RPIs with this key - not sure why they would need it. I've even seen a guard with a drivers master key attached to his bag.
 

MidnightFlyer

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There is a fine line between braveness and stupidity, and he was well beyond that line.
 

ukrob

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Thankfully not many seem to have a BR1B key although I have seen some trolley buffet staff and RPIs with this key - not sure why they would need it. I've even seen a guard with a drivers master key attached to his bag.

Was it on Merseyrail? Some guards also drive.
 

spacehopper

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Thankfully not many seem to have a BR1B key although I have seen some trolley buffet staff and RPIs with this key - not sure why they would need it. I've even seen a guard with a drivers master key attached to his bag.

Back in days when we were deemed to be a "competent" person I know some guards were booked to mobilise so had key to build up air and for 3-2-1-2-3 release when coupled with non gangway connection stock.

Nothing wrong with having a master key- comes in handy when drivers gets stuck in EBS....

As for flaps being left open- on a 158 they have never closed properly since day one. Suppose that's one good thing about voyagers no door controls to access or leave open.

What's the crack with new stock? Is it mainly opened by carriage key and DKS activated by CDL key?

Off topic but I suppose the one good thing about some stock is no IDKS and doors can only be done from cab or in an area public have no access to like on 150/1 etc.
 

ATW Alex 101

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There is a fine line between braveness and stupidity, and he was well beyond that line.

Honestly mate just dont get yourself involved by reporting the video (same to the other guy who reported the video that the OP mentioned) it's not breaking youtube guidelines (not drug related,porno related,violent or instructing how to make illegal objects) so just let it drop if trainsurfer or them people messing with the announcer want to be stupid and put it on youtube let them do it.

This isnt meant to be an insult in any way
 
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ukrob

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Honestly mate just dont get yourself involved by reporting the video (same to the other guy who reported the video that the OP mentioned) it's not breaking youtube guidelines (not drug related,porno related,violent or instructing how to make illegal objects) so just let it drop if trainsurfer or them people messing with the announcer want to be stupid and put it on youtube let them do it.

This isnt meant to be an insult in any way I'm just giving a fair warning not to get involved

I agree it is pointless reporting them. But who are you to give 'fair warning'?
 

pendolino

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yes in this case apparently the same key. In an Electrostar you need a completely different key. I'm still trying to get hold of a key for the Stewards panel. They are like gold dust!

Doesn't your TOC give them out for LIM key resets?
 

michael769

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ok sorry mate yes i know he was stupid in what he did but it was pretty cool what he did though he had some balls to do that

There nothing cool nor admirable about publicly humiliating someone who is just trying to do their job. IMHO that person was nothing more than a childish bully.
 

ATW Alex 101

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There nothing cool nor admirable about publicly humiliating someone who is just trying to do their job. IMHO that person was nothing more than a childish bully.

who is the childish bully
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I agree it is pointless reporting them. But who are you to give 'fair warning'?

i know it seems a bit harsh ill edit it:oops:

"fair warning" deleted
 
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rmt-driver

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You may doubt it but that is what happened.

Who sacked the member of staff, the train driver? I assume his or her employing manager wasn't on the train. I assume an instant full DB hearing wasn't carried out there and then onboard.

Then the member of staff should have appealed the sacking if he/she was sacked as you say. If the appeal was lost they should have gone to Tribunal.. I am sure they would have won, as anyone sacked on the spot without a fair factfinding interviews/investigation etc, is unfair dismissal or something similar.



Anyone back to the OP.... I thought the kid was funny. Fair play to him for being quite original.. and not just swearing or mumbling retarded "inits" as most youths would have done... harmless fun (if a one off).

It reminds me of the tannoy broadcast at West Ham station of a couple shagging. See link: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/763966-sex-tape-broadcast-in-west-ham-london-tube-station
(ignore picture of tube train in a tube station, the broadcast was made on the c2c platforms and District/H&C platforms- 1,2,7 & 8 .. quality journalism)

A friend of mine was on the station at the time and said most passengers found it amusing and livened up an otherwise dull journey, plus giving londoners and Essex folk something to chat to fellow passengers about for a minute when otherwise they wouldn't have dreamed of communicating with one another :D
 

michael769

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who is the childish bully

The person(s) who aimed to publicly humiliate the guard by posting their antics and the guards response on YT.

(And for the avoidance of any doubt I do not include pendolino in that comment - he was merely seeking to discuss the implications of their behaviour).
 
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