Future of Island Line

[yorksrob]

I suspect it would be a disaster to break the line off from its parent franchise. That said, as others have said, there would be no harm in shaming the operator into refreshing the rolling stock and tweaking the timetable into connecting.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In the initial post-1995 world, Island Line WAS a separate franchise and it was only luck that lead to Stagecoach winning both Island Line and SWT, which allowed presumably some degree of pooling of resources.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there now or has there ever been in recent years, any other similar instance of a mainland-based franchise having an island-based offshoot to the franchise that was separated by a ferry crossing time of the time that normal ferries take to connect or is the Island Line unique in this situation?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there now or has there ever been in recent years, any other similar instance of a mainland-based franchise having an island-based offshoot to the franchise that was separated by a ferry crossing time of the time that normal ferries take to connect or is the Island Line unique in this situation?

The short answer to that is, I think, a big fat no. The closest present day example would be Northern's Barton on Humber services which are completely isolated from other Northern services except on Saturdays...

 

[30907]

Rather off topic, as it's not UK nor a franchise, but the (almost) car-free German island of Wangerooge has a NG line operated by DB's InterCity division. Even better, for several years it came under DB Autozug (aka Motorail) and some of the stock is probably still so branded. Got a photo somewhere...

Can't think of any true island networks in the UK unless Holyhead Breakwater counts. The NG line on Mull?

 

[Chris125]

Ever tried walking from Sandown railway station to the main shopping area of the town, let alone the hotels on the sea front?

It's no further than walking up Ryde Pier and considerably less exposed to the weather!

I'm amazed that someone bemoaning a half mile walk in Sandown is fine with forcing a similar walk on all Catamaran passengers travelling by public transport.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can someone come up with the latest available statistics for the annual number of passengers carried on ferries of all types from the mainland to the arrival ports of the Isle of Wight.

 

[Carlisle]

Can't think of any true island networks in the UK unless Holyhead Breakwater counts. The NG line on Mull?

Isle of Man maybe

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there any weight restriction on the road on the pier (could it handle the weight of a fully loaded double decker bus)?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there any weight restriction on the road on the pier (could it handle the weight of a fully loaded double decker bus)?

...and would there be room for the bus to turn around? Can't imagine bus drivers would be keen on reversing down the pier!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

...and would there be room for the bus to turn around? Can't imagine bus drivers would be keen on reversing down the pier!

Looks like there might be the space for them to turn round on the pier head, might need a couple of parking spaces removing

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's no further than walking up Ryde Pier and considerably less exposed to the weather!

About 32 chains is my distance from the Pier Head station to the Esplanade station. Glad to hear that the weather in the Sandown area is more clement in its exposure to local residents than that to be found in the area of the pier.

A good walk along a long-ish pier is quite a good experience. Southport in particular has a pier of some length that I have walked very many times in both directions in my 70 years.
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I suspect it would be a disaster to break the line off from its parent franchise. That said, as others have said, there would be no harm in shaming the operator into refreshing the rolling stock and tweaking the timetable into connecting.

It is now less than 18 months to go before the current franchise ends on 3rd February 2017, so no amount of shaming will encourage a franchisee to make finance available in the short term for the improvements that you state above in that remaining time period.

 

[yorksrob]

About 32 chains is my distance from the Pier Head station to the Esplanade station. Glad to hear that the weather in the Sandown area is more clement in its exposure to local residents than that to be found in the area of the pier.

A good walk along a long-ish pier is quite a good experience. Southport in particular has a pier of some length that I have walked very many times in both directions in my 70 years.
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It is now less than 18 months to go before the current franchise ends on 3rd February 2017, so no amount of shaming will encourage a franchisee to make finance available in the short term for the improvements that you state above in that remaining time period.

Yes, this is one of the idiosyncracies of the franchising system.

It probably needs to go in the tender spec for the next one in that case.

 

[Chris125]

Is there any weight restriction on the road on the pier (could it handle the weight of a fully loaded double decker bus)?

Not by a country mile - the cast-iron structure has a weight restriction of 3 tonnes, height restriction of 2.25 metres and a 10mph speed limit.

About 32 chains is my distance from the Pier Head station to the Esplanade station. Glad to hear that the weather in the Sandown area is more clement in its exposure to local residents than that to be found in the area of the pier.

I think most people, especially those that live on the coast, can appreciate that a pier stretching half a mile beyond the shore is much more exposed in bad weather than walking through the built up streets of a town.

What no-one understands is how a bus station is fine if it requires a half mile walk along a pier, yet the same distance to a railway station makes it poorly sited.

A good walk along a long-ish pier is quite a good experience. Southport in particular has a pier of some length that I have walked very many times in both directions in my 70 years.

Absolutely, but you weren't forced to do so twice a day in all weathers through the winter by the closure of the adjacent railway were you? I find your attitude amazing and utterly depressing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could I suppose run a shuttle using lightweight minibuses.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How much does an Optare Solo weigh?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Too much. I was thinking smaller minibuses or even an electrically hauled toy road train thing.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How much would it cost to re-instate the tram on the pier? I'm guessing that a lot of structural work would be needed

 

[MarkyT]

Too much. I was thinking smaller minibuses or even an electrically hauled toy road train thing.

Ultra pod shuttle?
http://www.ultraglobalprt.com/

 

[30907]

Isle of Man maybe

Oops! Though I can switch to pedant mode and point out that the IoM isn't part of the UK. ☺

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How much would it cost to re-instate the tram on the pier? I'm guessing that a lot of structural work would be needed

How about the ferry company investing in a brand-new comfortable 2-car rail shuttle vehicle of the same weight and seating capacity as the existing train to perform the task of taking ferry foot passengers from the Pier Head to the Esplanade Interchange along the existing rail track, should the rail service as such no longer exist.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ultra pod shuttle?
http://www.ultraglobalprt.com/

Might work, but something based on a milk float type vehicle with a lightweight fibreglass body would probably be adequate and far, far cheaper.
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How about the ferry company investing in a brand-new comfortable 2-car rail shuttle vehicle of the same weight and seating capacity as the existing train to perform the task of taking ferry foot passengers from the Pier Head to the Esplanade Interchange along the existing rail track, should the rail service as such no longer exist.

A Pacer buzzing back and forth, or indeed a D78, would no doubt do that job perfectly well. It's Ryde tunnel that presents the loading gauge issue.

Or, for that matter, a Parry People Mover such as the one used at Stourbridge.

 

[ainsworth74]

A Pacer buzzing back and forth, or indeed a D78, would no doubt do that job perfectly well. It's Ryde tunnel that presents the loading gauge issue.

Though the depot facilities are on the other side of the tunnel and I don't believe there would be room to establish a new facility on the pier side of the tunnel so maintenance would be an issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though the depot facilities are on the other side of the tunnel and I don't believe there would be room to establish a new facility on the pier side of the tunnel so maintenance would be an issue.

If there was only one Pacer or D78 shuttling back and forth and that was it, I'm sure it could be maintained in place with a man in a van. D78s in particular are designed to be maintained in that way. For a full overhaul, you'd probably have to crane it onto a lorry and send it over on the boat.

 

[kieron]

I suspect it would be a disaster to break the line off from its parent franchise. That said, as others have said, there would be no harm in shaming the operator into refreshing the rolling stock and tweaking the timetable into connecting.

To me, the talk of local stakeholders finding a way to reduce the cost of running the line suggests something more like adding a link to the steam railway and thinning out the electric service so steam trains could use as much of the line as they can reach on their own, more expensive, tickets. With or without new loops to support it.

Or they may just scrap the Evening Returns and say they've done something.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Destaffing, DOO and TVMs? Not that it has many staff to start with...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Obviously cost would be an issue and funding would have to be raised, but as far as the steam railway is concerned, is there room for a track to be laid alongside the island line as far as Ryde St. John's? Smallbrook could then be closed which would slightly improve journey times at least, as well as giving a direct connection from Newport (outskirts!) to Ryde.

 

[yorksrob]

To me, the talk of local stakeholders finding a way to reduce the cost of running the line suggests something more like adding a link to the steam railway and thinning out the electric service so steam trains could use as much of the line as they can reach on their own, more expensive, tickets. With or without new loops to support it.

Or they may just scrap the Evening Returns and say they've done something.

Well, there's no harm in letting the kettles out onto the mainline once in a while, however I'd be wary about reducing the frequency of the regular service. Frequency is probably the key factor in local lines remaining attractive for turn up and go passengers.

On the subject of evening returns, it would be a mistake to try and raise fares rather than attracting more people to the service. However, this was the tactic forced on Northern, so I wouldn't put it past the DfT.

 

[The Ham]

How about the ferry company investing in a brand-new comfortable 2-car rail shuttle vehicle of the same weight and seating capacity as the existing train to perform the task of taking ferry foot passengers from the Pier Head to the Esplanade Interchange along the existing rail track, should the rail service as such no longer exist.

Why not make it free to travel by train on the peir and charge the ferry operator a percentage of the total cost of the service. That way the ferry would either go elsewhere removing the need to take trains along the peir(reducing costs) or there would be extra funding for the service from the ferry company.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why not make it free to travel by train on the peir and charge the ferry operator a percentage of the total cost of the service. That way the ferry would either go elsewhere removing the need to take trains along the peir(reducing costs) or there would be extra funding for the service from the ferry company.

Because if the ferry company pulled out it would be to the massive disadvantage of non-car-using residents and visitors.