Future DMU Orders

[158722]

Another set of cascades that I really like the sound of. Oh if only such joined up thinking actually prevailed...
I probably wouldn't throw out quite so many displaced 142s mind, seeing how woefully short of units Northern are. As much as I hate the idea of Northern becoming even more of a kingdom where the dreaded 142 reigns supreme than it already is, I wouldn't start scrapping Pacers until the stage of the cascaded Transpennine 170/3s was reached, when I'd get rid of about 10 Pacers following the arrival of 9 158s from FSR, starting with the ones with surviving 3+2 bus seating (even though I get all nostalgic when I end up travelling on one of these units). If the remaining South Clyde branches were electrified and displaced FSR 156s went to Northern (the previously mentioned 12-15 units), I would then see fit to also scrap the 15 ex-ATW 142s (Or whichever 15 142s were most knackered).

I was assuming a no-growth situation, but of course, the 142s only get binned if there is spare capacity as you correctly say. As we know, some of the Northern routes are badly overcrowded, so the spare 142s could just be used sparingly at peak times.

A slow attrition in Pacer numbers from a variety of sources is what I was getting at, as opposed to any general new build. Do I recall some mention of NXEA cutting back Lowestoft services to Ipswich only? Perhaps 2 170s saved there, displacing 153s? Also, don't MerseyRail want to extend to Wrexham? Couple more 150s or whatever saved there. Reading-Basingstoke-Salisbury-Romsey-Southampton getting 3rd rail would also free up some quality 158/159 stock for use elsewhere.

 

[jopsuk]

Remember, Scotrail should have surplus DMUs in the next few years- the A-B project doesn't release many, but wiring Glasgow-Edinburgh-Dunblane-Alloa (plus Cumbernauld?) will. I would guess they would hang on to 170s if they can. How much work would be required to clear the Far North and West Highland routes for 170s? Could, with some swaps, the Scotrail DMU fleet become all 170? With all of them being on longer duration routes too, they could all be to the same interior spec.

If swaps needed, what about 156s or 58s to NXEA? If all diesel services were cut back to go no further south than Ipswich (other than branches further south) they'd need less units and wouldn't have so much need for 100mph.

 

[WatcherZero]

I thought those cascaded from the Scottish Electrification were to be redeployed strengthening services and improving frequencies further north?

 

[LE Greys]

I thought those cascaded from the Scottish Electrification were to be redeployed strengthening services and improving frequencies further north?

Assuming they electrify the whole of the North East Strathclyde network all the way up to Perth and Dundee, along with fill-ins to Paisley Canal, East Kilbride, Whiffet and Midcalder Jcn via Shotts, and perhaps the Fife Circle as well, that would release a mixed bag of units. At least 14 156s, which could be sent up to Inverness and put back on the Far North and Kyle lines, which they suited a lot better than the 158s which replaced them. The nine Strathclyde 170s could also go to Inverness for services to Aberdeen. The remaining 170s could then be split, with some taking over the Kilmarnock, Stranraer and Carlisle routes and the rest staying to reinforce Highland and Aberdeen services (ideally being lengthened to 4-car and with mini-buffets). They could do this by taking out one car from half the units and inserting it into the other half, or by a new build. Assuming the former, this releases 29 2-car sets for services in England, along with 48 158s (squeezed out because they would really have no role). The remaining 156s should stay right where they are. If the 158s go to Northern, that should solve the overcrowding problems even if it doesn't cut into the Pacer fleet. The 170s could be lengthened with new vehicles and sent to FGW, thus squeezing out not just their 143s and 142s, but perhaps 10 150s as well, enough to replace some of the Arriva Wales Pacers (preferably straight to the scrapyard).

It's still all speculation, but I think it's valid speculation.

 

[YorkshireBear]

...assuming no additional passengers, since you can't add new coaches, you can't find more paths over the Pennines and there are no corridor connections.

I never said alone i meant they will remain as TPE trains, more may be added to supplement and allow regular 6 car formations.

 

[LE Greys]

I never said alone i meant they will remain as TPE trains, more may be added to supplement and allow regular 6 car formations.

Or you could add two trailers to all sets and modify the final drive to cope. You'd still have plenty of horsepower on tap, and adhesion weight is fairly high. Two trailers to all sets gives you 5-car or 10-car formations. Even one trailer would be better than nothing.