-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Freight train derailment at Carrbridge
- Thread starter SWT Driver
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
You guys have been helpful in explaining how the incident relates to the track layout at Carrbridge station/loop. But can you help explain something else that's been puzzling me, please?
There's (and I'm quoting from the sectional appendix) "additional AWS equipment at Carrbridge up loop, south end" (Thats is where the derailled train became unstuck)
I have been puzzled for some time. What is this?
Probably not at all relevant to the incident, as you've explained that it became derailled at the north end of the loop, but I'm wondering if the "additional equipment" relates to the goods siding which joins/joined the south end Carrbridge up loop, or if it relates to protecting the line to Aviemore after the significant descent from Slochd into the Carrbridge loop?
Cheers
There's (and I'm quoting from the sectional appendix) "additional AWS equipment at Carrbridge up loop, south end" (Thats is where the derailled train became unstuck)
I have been puzzled for some time. What is this?
Probably not at all relevant to the incident, as you've explained that it became derailled at the north end of the loop, but I'm wondering if the "additional equipment" relates to the goods siding which joins/joined the south end Carrbridge up loop, or if it relates to protecting the line to Aviemore after the significant descent from Slochd into the Carrbridge loop?
Cheers
Inverness_App
Member
me been a PWay man im not to sure what its for. i dont think its for protecting the line south of carrbridge, the engine was derailed on the run out switch at the north end on the up loop which i would presume is to protect the line going south.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
You'd think the Highland main line has had enought trouble this week, but look! Someone's driven their car onto the line much further south:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/8450475.stm
The Killiekrankie Pass is on a singled section of the Highland line which snakes through Glen Garry between Pitlochry and Blair Atholl. The A9 road runs parallel. There are some staggering drops into the river from the track formation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/8450475.stm
The Killiekrankie Pass is on a singled section of the Highland line which snakes through Glen Garry between Pitlochry and Blair Atholl. The A9 road runs parallel. There are some staggering drops into the river from the track formation.
Last edited:
Going back to your original question Dave, that siding is shown out of use now at Carrbridge. But I suspect additional AWS kit is provided because of the slightly strange approach lit arrangement many of the signals on the loops on that section have, as do many of the signals in Scotland installed under BR. Extra protection maybe to guard against trains starting away from loops?
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Approach+Lit+Signals
I always thought it was something to do with power supply (as a lot of the locations in Scotland are quite remote). A similar approach was taken on the Great Central Line when the LNER installed colour light signals there in the 1930s - as there was pretty bad rural power supplies in many areas at that time, many of the signals were powered by batteries and approach lit.
It turns out to be some strange arrangement BR Scottish region had to signalling standards, similar to the identification arrangement many signals have in Scotland with the first letter being the controlling box and the second the relay room.
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Approach+Lit+Signals
I always thought it was something to do with power supply (as a lot of the locations in Scotland are quite remote). A similar approach was taken on the Great Central Line when the LNER installed colour light signals there in the 1930s - as there was pretty bad rural power supplies in many areas at that time, many of the signals were powered by batteries and approach lit.
It turns out to be some strange arrangement BR Scottish region had to signalling standards, similar to the identification arrangement many signals have in Scotland with the first letter being the controlling box and the second the relay room.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
The approach-lit signalling applies to each end of all five of the loops on the Highalnd mainline in the Aviemore section, between Kingussie & Culloden, whereas the "additional AWS equiment" is installed only at the south end of the Carrbridge loop on the Up line. So I'm not completely confident that you've identified the explanation.
However, I'm grateful for your combination of infrastructure knowledge and its historical perspective - it all adds to my fondness for the line!
However, I'm grateful for your combination of infrastructure knowledge and its historical perspective - it all adds to my fondness for the line!
Inverness_App
Member
although i have been at the derailment everyday since it happened i havent ventured to the south end of the loop so i am not sure where the signal is. but i do know that the south end points are on a slight curve.
but anyway to keep everyone updated on the progress. the 2 rail cranes have not lifted a single item. after they got to site on wednesday they were switched off for the night, in the morning they could not get them started as the diesel had frozen through the night as temperatures were below -20, after 2 days of engineers trying to get them going they gave up and are sending them away. with a road based crane in the station carpark and another on the other side we have pulled out about 8 or 9 containers and only 4 or 5 wagons. even with these 2 cranes we have struggled to get anything else out. so today another crane came (800 tonnes) and the platform was been made up, between the station and the A9 just beside the crash site, for it to be setup . hopefully have it start lifting out wreckage before lunchtime tomorrow. even with this new crane we still wont be able to lift out the engine as it is to far down the embankment, so a survey has been done and test holes drilled for an access road to come from the A9 over to the site for a 1000 tonne crawler crane.
hopefully the 800 tonne crane will be able to lift out all the remaining wagons and containers and allow us to fully assess the damage to the loop. we are hopefull of running services on the main line only for tuesday or wednesday with disruptions but we will let ops decide how to do the signalling.
but anyway to keep everyone updated on the progress. the 2 rail cranes have not lifted a single item. after they got to site on wednesday they were switched off for the night, in the morning they could not get them started as the diesel had frozen through the night as temperatures were below -20, after 2 days of engineers trying to get them going they gave up and are sending them away. with a road based crane in the station carpark and another on the other side we have pulled out about 8 or 9 containers and only 4 or 5 wagons. even with these 2 cranes we have struggled to get anything else out. so today another crane came (800 tonnes) and the platform was been made up, between the station and the A9 just beside the crash site, for it to be setup . hopefully have it start lifting out wreckage before lunchtime tomorrow. even with this new crane we still wont be able to lift out the engine as it is to far down the embankment, so a survey has been done and test holes drilled for an access road to come from the A9 over to the site for a 1000 tonne crawler crane.
hopefully the 800 tonne crane will be able to lift out all the remaining wagons and containers and allow us to fully assess the damage to the loop. we are hopefull of running services on the main line only for tuesday or wednesday with disruptions but we will let ops decide how to do the signalling.
Vulcan
Member
I didn't realise diesel could freeze.
Keep up the reports, its very interesting to hear about it from someone at the scene rather then the usual speculation and guesswork.
Rail magazine reports that the loco and wagons have already been moved
Keep up the reports, its very interesting to hear about it from someone at the scene rather then the usual speculation and guesswork.
Rail magazine reports that the loco and wagons have already been moved
Inverness_App
Member
freezing is just a term used. the diesel actually turns in to a waxy like substance clogging up all the filters and injectors. modern cars are less likely to do this as they have a fuel heater in them and the deisel bought at a petrol station has more additives in it.
Vulcan
Member
Nah I was thinking of our 70-odd year old narrow gauge diesels, which run on red diesel. still from a petrol station though, and they live indoors. I'll shut up now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
BTW off topic, but did that turbostar in your signature actually do that or is it photoshopped?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
BTW off topic, but did that turbostar in your signature actually do that or is it photoshopped?
Inverness_App
Member
it actually did it. signaller pulled the lever a little bit too early. i got the pic from someone in my office. the date on the pic is the 31/5/99 and the number on the front is 170 401. i think he said it was on the aberdeen to inverness line.
Vulcan
Member
haha
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Yes. If I remember correctly it was a freezing winter sometime around '82 which led to trucks coming to an unexpected standstill all over UK roads (due to thickening fuel) that led to increased use of anti-waxing additives in DERV. I understand further additives are used in very cold climates to allow diesel to be used as low as -50deg C, but I don't believe any of these can be added retrospecively (the additives must be mixed with the fuel before filling). Also, some of them loosen rust etc in the tanks which can quickly block filters.
Thanks for the update Inverness_App. You guys must be feeling the cold too!
Inverness_App
Member
freezing, even through the day its about -6/7. but luckily the station is unmanned and we use it as a bothy anyway for the PWay. makes it bearable.
I dropped into carrbridge station today as i was dropping my wee girl back home to alness today,
On the way up the A9 passing dalwhinnie, we past the huge ainsclough crane heading upto carrbridge,
On arrival at carr bridge, the network rail was like, you need to keep that bit clear we are expecting a 800 tonne crane here anyminute, i said to him its a wee bit away yet we past it at dalwhinnie where it was crawling at like 15mph up the hill,
Basicly crash site still the same, with engine still in the trees and a few containers pilled up behind it with the 2 cranes still at either end this was at around 4pm,
The n,w,r staff and some ews staff were busy clearing local residents paths to there houses for them, i actually could not belive the amount of snow there.
On the way up the A9 passing dalwhinnie, we past the huge ainsclough crane heading upto carrbridge,
On arrival at carr bridge, the network rail was like, you need to keep that bit clear we are expecting a 800 tonne crane here anyminute, i said to him its a wee bit away yet we past it at dalwhinnie where it was crawling at like 15mph up the hill,
Basicly crash site still the same, with engine still in the trees and a few containers pilled up behind it with the 2 cranes still at either end this was at around 4pm,
The n,w,r staff and some ews staff were busy clearing local residents paths to there houses for them, i actually could not belive the amount of snow there.
RoyBrown
New Member
"The n,w,r staff and some ews staff were busy clearing local residents paths to there houses for them, i actually could not belive the amount of snow there."
They are clearing driveways of those allowing site staff to use for parking to keep road clear.
I have weather station 200m from site and lowest temp so far (this winter) was -13.4C on Saturday night. -8.9C just now.
HTH
Roy
They are clearing driveways of those allowing site staff to use for parking to keep road clear.
I have weather station 200m from site and lowest temp so far (this winter) was -13.4C on Saturday night. -8.9C just now.
HTH
Roy
The loco's still in the trees? Would've thought they would've removed her from the scene by now.
Dude, if you want to quote someone, hit the "Quote" button.
Doh pay attention at the back!
The rail based cranes have frozen diesel, and in the case of the loco, I suspect, can't get in at the right angle to lift it, hence the Ainscough crane coming to clear he tracks (and leave loco in woods until a a road can be made for a larger crane to get into that area - this may be hampered by the weather/ground conditions, and may involve DBS doing some stripping out of the loco.
An investigation is being carried out into a near miss involving a freight train and two passenger trains at Carstairs in South Lanarkshire.
It happened during heavy snowfall and freezing temperatures on 22 December.
The freight service from Coatbridge to Tilbury docks in Essex passed through two red signals and narrowly avoided colliding with two passenger trains.
The Rail Accident Investigation Brach (RAIB) has carried out an initial review.
It said: "Evidence suggests that the braking performance of the (freight) train was below that expected of a train of its type."
The RAIB also identified no evidence that the operation or condition of the railway signalling system contributed to the incident.
The near miss occurred at about 2020 GMT.
The freight train passed through Carstairs station and came to a halt about two miles after it had started to brake.
As it approached Carstairs a passenger service from London Kings Cross to Glasgow Central was being routed across the same line at the south end of the station.
The RAIB said it passed clear of the junction less than two minutes before the arrival of the freight train.
It also said that actions by a signaller averted the potential for a derailment or collision between the freight train and a second passenger train approaching Carstairs from the direction of Edinburgh.
Accident investigators will publish a full report and recommendations to improve safety when their investigation is complete.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8452129.stm
It happened during heavy snowfall and freezing temperatures on 22 December.
The freight service from Coatbridge to Tilbury docks in Essex passed through two red signals and narrowly avoided colliding with two passenger trains.
The Rail Accident Investigation Brach (RAIB) has carried out an initial review.
It said: "Evidence suggests that the braking performance of the (freight) train was below that expected of a train of its type."
The RAIB also identified no evidence that the operation or condition of the railway signalling system contributed to the incident.
The near miss occurred at about 2020 GMT.
The freight train passed through Carstairs station and came to a halt about two miles after it had started to brake.
As it approached Carstairs a passenger service from London Kings Cross to Glasgow Central was being routed across the same line at the south end of the station.
The RAIB said it passed clear of the junction less than two minutes before the arrival of the freight train.
It also said that actions by a signaller averted the potential for a derailment or collision between the freight train and a second passenger train approaching Carstairs from the direction of Edinburgh.
Accident investigators will publish a full report and recommendations to improve safety when their investigation is complete.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8452129.stm
This was a freightliner train, powered by a class 86....not heard much more on it though.
Old Timer
Established Member
4L81, DB, 1921 Coatbridge CB Tilbury CT, formed of 22 wagons of types FSA, FTA and FEA, hauled by locomotives 86610 & 86612.
No running brake test records found between origin and Carstairs on OTMR.
On inspection by C&W frozen compacted ice found on all wheels between wheels and brake pads/blocks.
No running brake test records found between origin and Carstairs on OTMR.
On inspection by C&W frozen compacted ice found on all wheels between wheels and brake pads/blocks.
Not everyone is able to come on and read an 8-page thread every day. Live with it.
Tut, tut, some driver is in for the high jump!
I don't want to be the driver sitting down for that cosy chat!
When would they have checked the OTMR - presumably immediately after the incident?
Given that this incident happened on 22 December they might have been able to issue that reminder about regular brake testing earlier, and perhaps (depending on the cause being confirmed) prevent the Carrbridge derailment.
Old Timer
Established Member
My contact says the download was done on site.
Inverness_App
Member
this should be my last update for 3 or 4 weeks when the engine will be getting lifted out. our 800 tonne crane lifted everything out today apart from the engine and a couple of containers that are down the embankment. the main line is clear throughout the station and services should be running in the morning albeit with major disruptions. ultrasonics still to check over the rails but so far the only damage to the main line is broken sleepers here and there, couple of tie bars in place to keep everything in order just now. speed restriction of 20mph going through the derail site. the loop on the other hand is knackered, loads of broken sleepers and rails with the platform sitting on top of it in bits. heard from ops today and i think they are planning doing pilotman between inverness and aviemore. s&t have got loads of work to do in getting signals and points up and running again. all points affected have been scotched and clamped for the main line.
im looking forward to a long lie in tomorrow.
im looking forward to a long lie in tomorrow.
With these things they always download the data (or take it away) as soon as the incident happens. The driver would have been relieved from duty at the same time, and questioned by a number of authorities. He would have also had a drink/drugs test.
Really drivers and other operating staff should know rule book section TW clause 18.2. Whether its issued or not, doesn't relieve the driver of his/her responsibilities, so I suspect there will be questions to be answered.
18.2 Running brake tests during snow
conditions
You must make a full service application of the automatic brake
every three to five minutes and make sure that the speed of your
train is reduced by at least 10 mph as a result of the application.
If driving a locomotive-hauled train, you can extend this interval
when:
the train is climbing a steep-rising gradient, and
the train might be brought to a complete stand as a result of
using the brake.
- Status