Formula 1

[newbie babs]

Not sure where this thread went but just in case it too old to add to.

The Dubai F1 is amazing, who would have thought Vettel who started from Pitt lane could get up to 4th and the race has not finished.
Hamilton OUT, Webber OUT and 16 laps to go and the 2nd safety car.

Its just unbelievable.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To be honest, I think when the team is allowed to completely change the set up of the car between qualifying and the race you can expect the driver to do better than when you have to stick with a compromised qualifying/race set up. I think the first safety car period helped too, okay he made sure he had an early pit stop when he nearly run into the Torro Roso under the safety car, but it gave him new tyres against cars with older tyres without much loss. Things just fell his way in the race.

 

[Ivo]

To be honest, I think when the team is allowed to completely change the set up of the car between qualifying and the race you can expect the driver to do better than when you have to stick with a compromised qualifying/race set up. I think the first safety car period helped too, okay he made sure he had an early pit stop when he nearly run into the Torro Roso under the safety car, but it gave him new tyres against cars with older tyres without much loss. Things just fell his way in the race.

That may be true but it was still one Hell of a race - definitely the best the Arabian Peninsula has produced (i.e. between it and Bahrain) in 10 or so attempts. I wouldn't suggest it compares with Canada last year, but then what does?

Watching Kimi was a good laugh as well. Nice to see that his usual Ice Man humour is still abundant...

"Gap to Alonso is five seconds; will keep you updated." > "Leave me alone!"
"Work all for tyres please." > "Yes, yes, yes, yes, I'm doing that."

Classic.

 

[wolfman]

everyone to their own,but i think i would prefer watching formation knitting.

 

[andrew bell]

i think if you decide to take the car out of parc ferme and change everything you should be penalized by not allowing to leave the pits until the final car has left the first intermediate timing line, how can it be fair to allow a car to change everything and only be about 2 seconds behind the field?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

i think if you decide to take the car out of parc ferme and change everything you should be penalized by not allowing to leave the pits until the final car has left the first intermediate timing line, how can it be fair to allow a car to change everything and only be about 2 seconds behind the field?

It still wouldn't have taken him long to catch up, maybe making them do an extra lap would be a deterent.
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That may be true but it was still one Hell of a race - definitely the best the Arabian Peninsula has produced (i.e. between it and Bahrain) in 10 or so attempts. I wouldn't suggest it compares with Canada last year, but then what does?....

Well, I suppose for a track where you can't overtake it was quite good....

....Watching Kimi was a good laugh as well. Nice to see that his usual Ice Man humour is still abundant...

"Gap to Alonso is five seconds; will keep you updated." > "Leave me alone!"
"Work all for tyres please." > "Yes, yes, yes, yes, I'm doing that."....

That was quite amusing.

 

[Bungle73]

To be honest, I think when the team is allowed to completely change the set up of the car between qualifying and the race you can expect the driver to do better than when you have to stick with a compromised qualifying/race set up. I think the first safety car period helped too, okay he made sure he had an early pit stop when he nearly run into the Torro Roso under the safety car, but it gave him new tyres against cars with older tyres without much loss. Things just fell his way in the race.

It wasn't just that. You don't go from dead last to 3rd place, with a few pit stops for damage repair as well, if you're not a really good driver.

i think if you decide to take the car out of parc ferme and change everything you should be penalized by not allowing to leave the pits until the final car has left the first intermediate timing line, how can it be fair to allow a car to change everything and only be about 2 seconds behind the field?

What for? If you're in a car that would normally be racing at the front, like a Red Bull, you'd catch up pretty quickly with the back markers anyway.

everyone to their own,but i think i would prefer watching formation knitting.

Did you actually watch the race? This old "F1 is boring" is sooo out out date. These last two years we've had some cracking races (Canada 2011).
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The first immediate timing line is before turn 1 anyway so the suggestion above would actually give the car in the pits an advantage over what happens now.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It wasn't just that. You don't go from dead last to 3rd place, with a few pit stops for damage repair as well, if you're not a really good driver....

The damage cost him next to nothing in the end, he pitted during a safety car period and was on the back of the field by the time it came in, the 5 or so places he lost were to HRT, Marussia and Caterham cars so not hard to pass, especially with DRS. Then he has the advantage of new tyres (or perhaps barely used ones) against cars that have done about 20 laps already. It's not really rocket science, yes he has to be a good driver, but then I think most F1 drivers in that situation would make an impact.

....What for? If you're in a car that would normally be racing at the front, like a Red Bull, you'd catch up pretty quickly with the back markers anyway....

The idea of getting them to start in the pit lane is that it is some sort of penalty for taking the car out of parc ferme, taking a car off the back of the grid, giving it a better race set up and then putting it, well, at the back of the field isn't that much of a penalty.

 

[Bungle73]

The damage cost him next to nothing in the end, he pitted during a safety car period and was on the back of the field by the time it came in, the 5 or so places he lost were to HRT, Marussia and Caterham cars so not hard to pass, especially with DRS. Then he has the advantage of new tyres (or perhaps barely used ones) against cars that have done about 20 laps already. It's not really rocket science, yes he has to be a good driver, but then I think most F1 drivers in that situation would make an impact.

You're talking like he got to 3rd without putting any effort in, which is so far from the truth it isn't true.

The idea of getting them to start in the pit lane is that it is some sort of penalty for taking the car out of parc ferme, taking a car off the back of the grid, giving it a better race set up and then putting it, well, at the back of the field isn't that much of a penalty.

The penalty wasn't to start from the pit lane. The penalty was being disqualified from Qualifying, which has the side effect of putting the car at the back of the grid because "officially" it failed to set a time. Starting from the pits was a team choice, and one that many teams have taken previously.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You're talking like he got to 3rd without putting any effort in, which is so far from the truth it isn't true....

I'm not trying to say that, I'm merely pointing out that things went his way.

....The penalty wasn't to start from the pit lane. The penalty was being disqualified from Qualifying, which has the side effect of putting the car at the back of the grid because "officially" it failed to set a time. Starting from the pits was a team choice, and one that many teams have taken previously.

The penalty for not having enough fuel in the car for a sample was disqualification from the qualifying session and putting him at the back, the penalty for taking the car out of parc ferme was starting from the pit lane. When you take the car out of parc ferme you can alter it.

 

[Bungle73]

I'm not trying to say that, I'm merely pointing out that things went his way.

That's motor racing: sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't.

The penalty for not having enough fuel in the car for a sample was disqualification from the qualifying session and putting him at the back, the penalty for taking the car out of parc ferme was starting from the pit lane.

No it wasn't. Starting from the pits was a choice made by the team, because it gave them the freedom to make changes to the car.

 

[Lampshade]

Well it certainly makes up for the bore-fest that was India.

Fantastic race, great to see Kimi up there once more

 

[Bungle73]

Well it certainly makes up for the bore-fest that was India.

Fantastic race, great to see Kimi up there once more

It's funny how two races that are normally quite boring, Valencia and Abdu Dhabi, turned out this year to be pretty exciting.
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OK I found this regulation:

34.5 If a competitor modifies any part on the car or makes changes to the set up of the suspension whilst the car is being held under parc ferme conditions the relevant driver must start the race from the pit lane and follow the procedures laid out in Article 38.2.

I'm not sure if that is what happened here, but at the end of the day it was still a team choice. He could have just as we'll started at the back of the grid if they'd made that choice.

 

[DavidBrown]

The main thing to bear in mind, especially regarding Vettel's comeback, was just how close the whole pack was. For the first time in a long, long time - if not ever, nobody was lapped (De la Rosa's HRT finishing just 71 seconds behind the winner). Plus seven retirements meant fewer cars to pass, and the timing of the safety cars worked very much in his favour. That said, I still think that Vettel is one of the greatest racing drivers that there has ever been.

Another noteworthy performance that hasn't seemingly been mentioned anywhere was Paul di Resta - a points finish was looking very unlikely at the end of the first safety car.

 

[LE Greys]

The main thing to bear in mind, especially regarding Vettel's comeback, was just how close the whole pack was. For the first time in a long, long time - if not ever, nobody was lapped (De la Rosa's HRT finishing just 71 seconds behind the winner). Plus seven retirements meant fewer cars to pass, and the timing of the safety cars worked very much in his favour. That said, I still think that Vettel is one of the greatest racing drivers that there has ever been.

Another noteworthy performance that hasn't seemingly been mentioned anywhere was Paul di Resta - a points finish was looking very unlikely at the end of the first safety car.

Monaco '96 everybody who finished was on the same lap, but there were only four finishers anyway and two were from the same team. The impressive bit is how well the slower cars keep up with the quicker ones here.

Coming back from a long way down is still an impressive feat. I remember Damon Hill doing something similar once, going from 26th to 3rd, but then he did have a Williams that could pull a second a lap on its nearest rivals if it was working well. What was impressive here was how Vettel fought his way past cars nearly as fast as his (especially Button) and timed his pit stops absolutely bang on.

 

[Donny Dave]

The slower cars were only able to stay on the same lap thanks to the 2 safety car periods, which incidentally, also helped Vettel massively.

Vettel had to make a pitstop during the first safety car, as he had damaged the front wing. However, as it was under the safety car he did not lose very much time, due to all the cars being bunched up.

Anyway, I'm glad both Karthikeyan and Rosberg are ok, it looked a nasty crash at the time.

 

[LE Greys]

So, Vettel on pole once again in Austin, needing 15 more points than Alonso to take the title. If he wins, Alonso needs to be 4th or better to stand a possible chance of winning the title in Brazil.

The circuit looks interesting. We need some names for the corners, and I have a few ideas.

Turn 1- open to suggestions
Turn 2- OTS
Turns 3, 4, 5 & 6 - Silverstone (fake Maggots and Becketts)
Turn 7 - Church (fake Chapel, but bigger)
Turns 8 & 9 - Hangar Chicane
Turn 10 - OTS
Turn 11 - Austin Hairpin
Turn 12 - Elbow (that's what it looks like)
Complex - Longhorn (looks more like a cow's ear, but never mind)
Turn 18 - Lone Star (an impressive sweeper)
Turn 19 - OTS
Turn 20 - Last Corner (obviously)

 

[Ivo]

Turn 1: The Eau Rouge wannabe
Turn 2: Generic Right-Hander
Turn 10: I'm not prominent enough to justify my own name
Turn 19: The one everyone messes up

 

[LE Greys]

So, last race tomorrow and Vettel in fourth with Alonso back in eighth. Vettel only needs to finish fourth to get the title even if Alonso wins, but Eddie Jordan thinks he might be on wet settings. It's possible that Massa might 'need another gearbox change' but he is right next to Vettel, so I hope it doesn't all end at the first corner.

Incidentally, I've been running a 9-6-4-3-2-1 championship this year (mostly from having too much time on my hands, and it currently looks like this.

1. Vettel____85
2. Alonso____77
3. Hamilton__55
4. Raikkonen_50
5. Button____47
6. Webber___44

So all Vettel would have to do is finish sixth!

The Constructors' is like this

1. Red Bull-Renault___129
2. McLaren-Mercedes_102
3. Ferrari____________99
4. Louts-Renault______69
5. Sauber-Ferrari______28
6. Mercedes-Benz_____26

And the nominations for this year's Andrea de Cesaris Trophy

• Pastor Maldonado - for his four self-inflicted retirements (spins and crashes)
• Pastor Maldonado - for a number of collisions that took out other drivers
• (Rumours are that winning a race disqualifies you from this award)
• Romain Grosjean - for having a self-inflicted retirement record to equal Maldonado
• Romain Grosjean - for his 'embarrassing first-lap nutcase' move on Webber at Suzuka
• Kamui Kobayashi - for his 'what an idiot' move on Button and Rosberg in Korea

Note, nominations are not closed until the last lap in Interlagos.

 

[Bungle73]

There won't be a gearbox change. Stefano Domenicali has stated they won't be doing that.

Still awaiting the expected penalty for Maldonado.
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[/LIST]
And the nominations for this year's Andrea de Cesaris Trophy

• Pastor Maldonado - for his four self-inflicted retirements (spins and crashes)
• Pastor Maldonado - for a number of collisions that took out other drivers
• (Rumours are that winning a race disqualifies you from this award)
• Romain Grosjean - for having a self-inflicted retirement record to equal Maldonado
• Romain Grosjean - for his 'embarrassing first-lap nutcase' move on Webber at Suzuka
• Kamui Kobayashi - for his 'what an idiot' move on Button and Rosberg in Korea

Note, nominations are not closed until the last lap in Interlagos.

What about Romain Grosjean for causing a start line crash that nearly took Alonso's head off?
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Ten place Grid penalty for Maldonado.

 

[DarloRich]

how are the gear box seals on the Massa driven Ferrari today i wonder

Vettel is in a hard position. Does he:

A)let the McLarens romp away and hope he can finish ahead of Alonso or
B)go all out for first place at the start and use the other cars to hold Alonso back?

I think it is to risky to go for option B as he could crash. Best to let them go, get Webber behind and use him as a rear gunner/ mobile road block.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Wouldn't it be a delicious irony if Massa has a steering failure at turn one and goes into Vettel only for Alonso to plough into the wreckage...?

 

[DarloRich]

Wouldn't it be a delicious irony if Massa has a steering failure at turn one and goes into Vettel only for Alonso to plough into the wreckage...?

I do wonder if Massa may have been ordered to engage ramming speed!

Surely Vettel just has to stay safe and keep ahead of Alonso bonso

 

[StripeyNick]

Whilst being an out & out Macca supporter, I'm going to be putting my Ferrari supporters hat on today.

Unfortunately, I think Seb will get the title though. It's not that I don't like the guy, I just find Red Bull annoying plus I think Alonso has done well with what is obviously not the best car.

Ideal result for me, McLaren 1 & 2 with Alonso 3rd and Vettel out.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'd prefer Vettel to win it because I haven't forgiven Alonso for the way he threw his toys out of the pram when he was teamed up with Hamilton...

 

[chris89]

Whilst being an out & out Macca supporter, I'm going to be putting my Ferrari supporters hat on today.

Unfortunately, I think Seb will get the title though. It's not that I don't like the guy, I just find Red Bull annoying plus I think Alonso has done well with what is obviously not the best car.

Ideal result for me, McLaren 1 & 2 with Alonso 3rd and Vettel out.

Thats my ideal result as well.

I sadly also think Vettel will win sadly, I'd prefer him not to as will end up being the same result again for the past few years sadly :/

Of course if it is a McLaren 1 & 2 rather have Button 1st :P

Chris

 

[Ivo]

Back in 1997, Villeneuve was criticised for letting McLaren earn a one-two (their first for years) in order to preserve his car. I don't know why he was criticised, but he was. Irrespective of any criticism, I feel that this is the best tactic for Vettel - let the McLarens run away. Forget they even exist. Alonso is the "enemy", not the McLaren pair.

The latest indications are that rain is becoming less likely, which will favour Vettel.

I don't know who I want to win, so long as the race is interesting - after all, after today we have four months of nothing! But it should be remembered that whoever wins will claim Senna's record as youngest triple champion - in the great man's backyard.

 

[Darandio]

B
The latest indications are that rain is becoming less likely, which will favour Vettel.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. However, this is the Brazilian GP and it has rained in the past when there wasn't even any forecast during the race at all!

Anything can happen.

 

[Donny Dave]

Some light rain falling in Brazil, and the teams seem to be unsure as to what the weather will do next.

Ferrari will be doing a full on rain dance though, as they put a wet setup on Fernando's car yesterday ....

 

[Darandio]

Amazing start, and Alonso then does a Hakkinen into turn 1!!!