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Formula 1

DelW

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Perhaps they could ask Lewis's mum and the driver girlfriends to wear branded clothes. That way we'd kill two "not very interesting" birds (see what I did there?) with one stone?
Since I watch the channel 4 highlights which have limited time available, I'd happily do without the shots of random mothers / wives / girlfriends, especially as I've no idea who most of them are, and have no wish to find out. I started watching F1 in a different era, and I can't imagine drivers of those days bringing their mothers into the pits. (Though Bette Hill, wife of Graham and mother of Damon, was a well-known participator in the pits).

In other news, it seems likely that another autocrat is trying to award himself a lucrative job for life:
FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem is proposing a removal of term limits for the position as head of motorsport's governing body.

The move would enable the 64-year-old Emirati - who was re-elected unopposed in December as a result of a quirk in election rules that prevented anyone else from standing - to continue as president beyond the current 12-year limit.

Under current rules, the presidential term is four years and a person can stand for re-election twice - therefore completing a maximum of three terms.

The plan to change the FIA's statutes will be discussed and voted on at next month's FIA General Assembly, where it is expected to be passed by members.
What could possibly go wrong?
 
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QSK19

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In other news, it seems likely that another autocrat is trying to award himself a lucrative job for life:

What could possibly go wrong?
Almost as worthy of an eye roll as when Lance Stroll was announced in the driver lineup of his daddy’s team like it was breaking news :rolleyes:
 

Peter Mugridge

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And now for something a bit different, but still F1.

Does anyone know if Kimi Raikkonen is visiting the UK at the moment?

My daughter says someone looking exactly like him, even wearing his trademark cap, and driving an Audi was alongside her boyfriend and herself on the M5 southbound below Bristol this evening.
 
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I was marshalling at Brands Hatch "Druids" some years ago at a F3000 race. Chatting to a cameraman, he said he was filming for an Italian service and was told he could not get the "KODAK Bridge" in shot. Very difficult when the cars came up from "Paddock" under it.
 

JD2168

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Charles Leclerc has signed a contract extension with Ferrari, no length specified but it says for a number of seasons
 

507 001

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In the spirit of doing exactly the things that will p*ss the fans off, F1 have just announced that Las Vegas will remain on the calendar until 2037.

Fantastic. :rolleyes:
 

SynthD

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The final corner has a section with a brand new surface. It is now beginning to break up, with loose tarmac on the road like we might experience ourselves. Those rocks have stuck to the hot tyres of two cars, causing them to immediately crash, both causing safety cars. The second was followed by a red flag, which is now ending. The second crasher has more cause for anger, if you think about it.

I hope some broadcasters go inspect it for themselves in their post shows.
 

JamesT

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Though both drivers that crashed have said they had issues with their brakes, rather than it being the track surface to blame.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Never seen so many penalties and stewards interventions very bizarre.

Shame Verstappen had to retire straight away could have made it a more interesting race. Anyhow only week for the next one.
 

Mogster

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The pit lane entry has changed due to the additional garages for Cadillac. It allowed corner cutting, so is being said.

The surface break up didn’t look that bad, just some chips of aggregate coming detached from the tar. It’s not unusual for gravel to be on track, Davidson made a big thing of it. If you watch Indycar they’ll be racing with almost fist sized chunks of concrete being thrown up.

It’s interesting that both drivers who went off have form for these sorts of errors. Stroll, and Chaz. There’s a reason why Leclerc has 27 F1 pole positions and only 8 wins.
 

Broucek

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It looks like the cars were not speeding OR illegally crossing white lines. However, because they were taking a shorter than assumed route, their speeds were judged too high - in some cases by 0.1kmh.

Not a good look for the sport....
 

najaB

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It looks like the cars were not speeding OR illegally crossing white lines. However, because they were taking a shorter than assumed route, their speeds were judged too high - in some cases by 0.1kmh.

Not a good look for the sport....
Annoying. But it fits with the "a rule is a rule" nature of F1.
 

Bald Rick

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The final corner has a section with a brand new surface. It is now beginning to break up, with loose tarmac on the road like we might experience ourselves. Those rocks have stuck to the hot tyres of two cars, causing them to immediately crash, both causing safety cars. The second was followed by a red flag, which is now ending. The second crasher has more cause for anger, if you think about it.

I hope some broadcasters go inspect it for themselves in their post shows.

The pit lane entry has changed due to the additional garages for Cadillac. It allowed corner cutting, so is being said.

The surface break up didn’t look that bad, just some chips of aggregate coming detached from the tar. It’s not unusual for gravel to be on track, Davidson made a big thing of it. If you watch Indycar they’ll be racing with almost fist sized chunks of concrete being thrown up.

It’s interesting that both drivers who went off have form for these sorts of errors. Stroll, and Chaz. There’s a reason why Leclerc has 27 F1 pole positions and only 8 wins.

Having watched and rewatched it, the issue at turn 18 / 19 wasn‘t the gravel or brakes. It was the loss of road surface.

Both Stroll and Leclerc took a line which put them perfectly over the ‘pothole’ where the surface had broken away. It was a fairly thin ‘pothole’, but with their front right perfectly over it, that tyre would have had about 25% less grip then normal simlly because there was no tarmac for the tyre to grip. With the results being what we saw. Other drivers only put the edge of a tyre over the missing tarmac or missed it altogether.
 

JD2168

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It was a shame about Max’s retirement as it would have been an interesting start to see Max & Kimi against each other, I had a thought that Max had better race pace than the Ferrari’s.

Not sure what was going on with all the speeding penalties, were the drivers taking a different line into the pit lane which was partially causing this to happen.

The track breaking up wasn’t a good look for the race & a shame it had a part in Stroll & Leclerc’s retirements.

George must be cursing his bad luck at the moment with pit lane speeding, a mix up on communication contributing to not taking the penalty then having a drive through afterwards, this coming after his retirement in Canada.

No pace for McLaren this weekend & another retirement for Lando.
 

DarloRich

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The stewards must have been on an appearance fee after that race. Did any driver escape a punishment? Do we know why there were so many pit lane speeding incidents?
 
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The stewards must have been on an appearance fee after that race. Did any driver escape a punishment? Do we know why there were so many pit lane speeding incidents?

Bernie Collins on Sky described the method used to measure speed as being similar to a motorway 'average speed' camera, where what is actually measured is the time taken to transit between two points, and the speed inferred from that. Reading between the lines (so to speak) it would appear that the tighter line being taken at the entry, as the result of the additional garage, meant that the distance travelled was shorter than expected and the average speed therefore higher?

On the face of it, it seems like the FIA's error in not taking the tighter line into account, rather than many drivers making the same mistake.
 

Broucek

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Having watched and rewatched it, the issue at turn 18 / 19 wasn‘t the gravel or brakes. It was the loss of road surface.

Both Stroll and Leclerc took a line which put them perfectly over the ‘pothole’ where the surface had broken away. It was a fairly thin ‘pothole’, but with their front right perfectly over it, that tyre would have had about 25% less grip then normal simlly because there was no tarmac for the tyre to grip. With the results being what we saw. Other drivers only put the edge of a tyre over the missing tarmac or missed it altogether.
Yeah, my immediate thought on the Stroll incident was "that wasn't driver error". It was clear that the front wheels were behaving differently to each other. I even wondered if he had a puncture or suspension damage
 

JamesT

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Bernie Collins on Sky described the method used to measure speed as being similar to a motorway 'average speed' camera, where what is actually measured is the time taken to transit between two points, and the speed inferred from that. Reading between the lines (so to speak) it would appear that the tighter line being taken at the entry, as the result of the additional garage, meant that the distance travelled was shorter than expected and the average speed therefore higher?

On the face of it, it seems like the FIA's error in not taking the tighter line into account, rather than many drivers making the same mistake.
Though I think at least McLaren said their monitoring agreed that the driver was speeding. Which is presumably from onboard rather than the speed camera method.
 

DarloRich

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Bernie Collins on Sky described the method used to measure speed as being similar to a motorway 'average speed' camera, where what is actually measured is the time taken to transit between two points, and the speed inferred from that. Reading between the lines (so to speak) it would appear that the tighter line being taken at the entry, as the result of the additional garage, meant that the distance travelled was shorter than expected and the average speed therefore higher?

On the face of it, it seems like the FIA's error in not taking the tighter line into account, rather than many drivers making the same mistake.
thanks - I did wonder if the equipment was faulty somehow
 

yoyothehobo

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Apparently drivers were warned of this before the start of the race by the FIA and the potential for speeding penalties as a result of excess cutting
 

QSK19

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Yeah, my immediate thought on the Stroll incident was "that wasn't driver error". It was clear that the front wheels were behaving differently to each other. I even wondered if he had a puncture or suspension damage
Even if it was, not like daddy would have told him off :lol:
 

Tetchytyke

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thanks - I did wonder if the equipment was faulty somehow
It wasn't faulty, they use loops in the road to measure the time.

The issue was that the loops were set up based on the distance driven by drivers staying inside the white line. But there's no rule to say drivers couldn't cut the corner so they did, because it was a shorter distance and therefore faster. That time saving was then recorded as speeding in the pit lane, even though they didn't actually speed in the pit lane.

The drivers were warned about it but that's not really good enough. Just more uselessness from the FIA in what is turning out to be a complete shambles of a season.

I see Red Bull apparently have the best engine too!
 

Cloud Strife

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Bernie Collins on Sky described the method used to measure speed as being similar to a motorway 'average speed' camera, where what is actually measured is the time taken to transit between two points, and the speed inferred from that. Reading between the lines (so to speak) it would appear that the tighter line being taken at the entry, as the result of the additional garage, meant that the distance travelled was shorter than expected and the average speed therefore higher?

The system works via the transponders in the car and electromagnetic induction loops in the track. They're placed at the centre line of the pit lane, and there are a lot of loops placed on the pit lane. If they break the average speed between any of those two loops, they're automatically in trouble. With Monaco and the curving pitlane, if they cut the corner, they'll end up over the speed limit.

Looking at the highlights, I'd bet good money that the issue is at the end of the pit lane. The drivers were cutting the corner there and encroaching into the garage areas, and I bet the FIA knew they'd do it, hence the induction loops were placed at the beginning and end of that corner to catch them out. Hamilton does it quite blatantly, but others too.

1780926640242.png

You can see it as clear as day here: Hadjar clearly crossed the line. The teams are suggesting that it was the entry, not the exit to blame, but I can't see how anyone can complain when they were all cutting the exit corner in that way. If anything, the FIA have been too lenient here, as it's dangerous for drivers to cut the corner there.

On the other hand, you can see how wide the pitlane entry is, and what the teams are saying is that they were punished for taking the inside line rather than the middle of the pitlane.

1780927013726.png

Alternatively, it may have been this:

1780927059181.png

If they were doing this, it's not a surprise they were punished - they're well off the line, and there's just no excuse for it. It's possible that the FIA have identified issues with drivers cutting the line in previous years, and so they placed a micro-sector there to deliberately catch them out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

But there's no rule to say drivers couldn't cut the corner so they did, because it was a shorter distance and therefore faster.

I think this is a case where the FIA outsmarted the teams. They were cutting the line intentionally to save time even though it wasn't part of the pit lane, and as the sensors were placed in the middle of the (marked) pit lane, they ended up getting caught for speeding.

I don't think it's a farce to be honest, the drivers have done it to themselves by cutting the corner, especially if the FIA already warned them about corner cutting there. It seems to me that the FIA definitely wanted to clamp down on this behaviour, and catching them for speeding in the pit lane is very effective rather than getting into arguments about whether or not they can cross the line.

Having said that, it should surely be a universal rule that you can't cross the white lines in the pit lane, except to enter and leave your garage.
 
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Tetchytyke

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I don't think it's a farce to be honest, the drivers have done it to themselves by cutting the corner, especially if the FIA already warned them about corner cutting there. It seems to me that the FIA definitely wanted to clamp down on this behaviour, and catching them for speeding in the pit lane is very effective rather than getting into arguments about whether or not they can cross the line.

Having said that, it should surely be a universal rule that you can't cross the white lines in the pit lane, except to enter and leave your garage.
There's no rule saying you can't cut the white line. As we all know, in F1 anything that isn't specifically prohibited is treated as being allowed.

Whether the FIA wanted to clamp down on it or not I don't know, but you can't just make rules up as you go along.

And yes, it should be a rule you can't cut the white line.
 

Cloud Strife

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There's no rule saying you can't cut the white line. As we all know, in F1 anything that isn't specifically prohibited is treated as being allowed.

I think this is where the FIA have outplayed the teams at their own game. The rules surrounding pit lane speed measurement are clear, and from what I can see, the FIA cars are stationed at the exit from that corner that they were cutting. So, if the teams/drivers were warned not to cut the corner and they did, it's a problem entirely of their own making.

So while cutting the white line was legal, it isn't legal to speed in the pit lane, and that's where they got caught, probably in a micro-sector between the start of the corner and the first team garage.

Whether the FIA wanted to clamp down on it or not I don't know, but you can't just make rules up as you go along.

I think the crucial thing is that they haven't punished the drivers for cutting the white line, they've got them for speeding between two points of the pit lane. I'm not a fan of the FIA, but in this case, I think they've caught the teams/drivers out for not paying attention to what the rules actually say.

Having said that, on F1 TV, they've suggested that the issue is down to the Cadillac garage: drivers were used to driving straight through there, and now that the pit lane has been altered to avoid the garage, the drivers were getting caught. It seems that the issue is that while it's not strictly illegal to do it, the FIA warned the teams/drivers that they would get caught speeding if they did cross the line there.

IMO, probably the real issue here is that the white lines in the pit lane should be treated as an absolute obligation, and that crossing them without reason is an instant 5 second penalty.
 

najaB

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If anything, the FIA have been too lenient here, as it's dangerous for drivers to cut the corner there.
I was between two minds as to if this was too strict or not, but the image you posted makes it clear that by cutting the corner they were also encroaching into the mechanics' working area. So the penalties were appropriate.
 

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