Formula 1

[dcbwhaley]

I'm sure he and the team are heartbroken by this news. That evening was an embarrassment for the sport but isn't nearly as embarrassing as comments like this.

This is the 2024 season, next year is the 2025 season, and many fans are still in the 2021 season.

Those who ignore the lessons of the past are apt to repeat them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2024 ==

Notice the Hamilton fan boys never mention Timo Glok.

If you are refiring to 2008 Interlagos Hamilton's win was down to his better driving and was entirely within the rules

 

[DelW]

And I deny that MV has "won" four championships. He has won three and had one handed to him by an outrageous breach of the rules

Two outrageous breaches of the rules ... don't forget Spa as well as Abu Dhabi. MV was awarded 12.5 points at Spa (vs 7.5 for LH) for a "race" that only took place in Masi's imagination.

All the "four times world champion" hysteria today grated on me too.

 

[357]

Those who ignore the lessons of the past are apt to repeat them.

Nobody is ignoring the lessons of the past, in the same way that the current German government doesn't get constant reminders of the past.

The lessons from 2021 are in the attached document.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2024 ==

Two outrageous breaches of the rules ... don't forget Spa as well as Abu Dhabi. MV was awarded 12.5 points at Spa (vs 7.5 for LH) for a "race" that only took place in Masi's imagination.

There were many issues all year that gave advantage to both drivers at various points.

The problem in 2021 wasn't Max, it was Masi. There had been multiple concerns raised about how he handles stress prior to Abu Dhabi.

All the "four times world champion" hysteria today grated on me too.

Whoever won 2021 deserved it. The problem is that there is always going to be a cloud over that first title because of the actions of Masi. Can't blame RB for playing their cards the way they did though.

 

[londonbridge]

Las Vegas is in the pacific time zone which is 8 hours behind us so 10pm local time, why were they running it so late? If they wanted prime time tv locally shouldnt it have been starting at 8pm/4am GMT??

 

[HST43257]

Las Vegas is in the pacific time zone which is 8 hours behind us so 10pm local time, why were they running it so late? If they wanted prime time tv locally shouldnt it have been starting at 8pm/4am GMT??

To make it work to Europe (6-7am)

 

[JD2168]

Apparently one reason the race is run so late is so that the track can stay open longer for residents, public transport & businesses during the day.

Well done to Max for the 4th Consecutive Championship. Despite all the trying of McLaren they didn’t really close the points gap truly at any point & Max virtually won it with the win in Sao Paolo from 17th on the grid.

A very good race to watch as it became clear the race was going to be a 2 stop as graining the tyres was a problem throughout the race for the teams. There was also some good overtaking particularly the 3 cars into the chicane at the end of the strip.

Good win for George especially after the disqualification in Belgium but Lewis could have made it more difficult for him if he hadn’t messed up qualifying.

Few issues at Ferrari after Charles Leclerc launched a rant on the team radio after the race appearing to be aimed at Carlos Sainz & some of the team decisions.

 

[Crithylum]

Despite the team radio issue Ferrari have a better chance and constructor's than Norris ever had in the driver's. Although I think Mclaren is still the favourite, as Qatar feels like a Mclaren track (but I thought Vegas would not suit the Mercedes).

Mercedes seem to have rediscovered their form from just before the summer break. Some people have suggested that the cold temperatures were responsible, but I would be very surprised if this result was purely down to the weather, and not the Mercedes suddenly being very fast for no (other) apparent reason

 

[357]

Have just listened to Leclerc's radio after the flag - he did apologise and it sounds like potentially he didn't know his mic was broadcasting.

 

[PG]

Have just listened to Leclerc's radio after the flag - he did apologise and it sounds like potentially he didn't know his mic was broadcasting.

I haven't listened to it yet but presumably he'll be getting called to the headmasters office for six-of-the-best by the FIA president who seems to have nothing better to do!

 

[357]

I haven't listened to it yet but presumably he'll be getting called to the headmasters office for six-of-the-best by the FIA president who seems to have nothing better to do!

Most certainly.

I suspect the team will have a few things to say to him too.

 

[DarloRich]

Whoever won 2021 deserved it.

Ture - Hamilton won it. Verstappen was given the title gift wrapped. He has 4 titles. He has won 3. We all know that. You know that, even Verstappen, deep down, knows that.

The come back by Hamilton to be in a position to "win" the title was remarkable. One of the great F1 stories. He and us were robbed of that crowning moment and the crowning moment of his career. Verstappen tired all of his little moves and cheats to beat Hamilton and failed. Red Bull had given up ( we all heard Horner) before the FIA handed them a massive present.

Pretending otherwise is dishonest.

BTW the Verstappen drive in Brazil was superb. An incredible result that won him this title. he has been made to work for this title and Reb Bull seemed to lost the plot for a section of the season.

Few issues at Ferrari after Charles Leclerc launched a rant on the team radio after the race appearing to be aimed at Carlos Sainz & some of the team decisions.

An hilarious rant.

Mercedes seem to have rediscovered their form from just before the summer break. Some people have suggested that the cold temperatures were responsible, but I would be very surprised if this result was purely down to the weather, and not the Mercedes suddenly being very fast for no (other) apparent reason

It seems to be a mixture of temperature, wind, track style, lack of bumps and corner length/tightness that has led to Mercedes doing well. I am not sure they know really (or at least aren't prepared to say why it happened)

he did apologise and it sounds like potentially he didn't know his mic was broadcasting.

I am surprised he wasn't told it was a "hot mic" - it must go on all the time. It would if I were driving!

in fact wasn't there a case where a team worked out that swearing wouldn't be broadcast so they swore during critical information transfer radio messages? Was that F1? Could have been Indy.

 

[357]

Formula 1 has reached an agreement in principle with General Motors to support bringing GM/Cadillac as the eleventh team to the grid in 2026.

 

[75A]

Word is that they'll have Ferrari engines and Michael Andretti will have no involvement.

 

[JD2168]

Word is that they'll have Ferrari engines and Michael Andretti will have no involvement.

Interesting to note that Mario Andretti will have a place on the board.

It appears that since Michael stopped running the Andretti Global team things have moved quickly emphasising that he rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way with his rather aggressive style.

 

[75A]

Mario is a Gentleman and a superb Ambassador, two things you wouldn't say about his son.

 

[DarloRich]

Formula 1 has reached an agreement in principle with General Motors to support bringing GM/Cadillac as the eleventh team to the grid in 2026.

interesting that they were accepted once the Andretti link was watered down and the payment to other teams increased. GM will use customer engines for a while before building thier own. That is a big step.

 

[HST43257]

Sounds as if Andretti has been wiped from this deal

Could it be any clearer that they were the problem in the old bid?

 

[Tetragon213]

I'm still flabbergasted that Sergio Perez's contract is under no threat.

Has there ever been such a disparity in performance between 2 drivers on the same team in the last 20 years? Albon and Gasly were both sacked for far less.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm still flabbergasted that Sergio Perez's contract is under no threat.

it is under threat. It has to be.

 

[gswindale]

Word is that they'll have Ferrari engines.

That's the obvious option.

The engine manufacturers for 2026 look to be
Mercedes - already supplying Mercedes, Williams, McLaren and Alpine
Honda - supplying Aston Martin (and I believe that is an exclusive deal)
Audi - supplying Audi (again I'd expect that to be exclusive whilst they get themselves sorted out)
Ferrari - supplying Ferrari and Haas
Red Bull Ford - supplying Red Bull and whatever they decide to call Minardi next week

So, Mercedes are full, Red Bull won't want to supply anybody else, Audi & Honda are exclusive deals for 2026, so that only leaves Ferrari.

There was a rumour that Cadillac might be interested in acquiring the Renault PU IP, which might make sense as a baseline for the 2028 build (what time-span does the 2026 engine spec cover?)

 

[DarloRich]

Ferrari - supplying Ferrari and Haas

they seem the only option as Ferrari will have a customer gap with Sauber becoming Audi and building thier own engine .

 

[Mogster]

Ferrari are confirmed as capable of providing customer engines at the scale needed. They are also used to dealing with F1 startups with Hass and teams with less resources than their own, Sauber. It would make sense for Andretti-Chevy-Guggenheim, or whatever it ends up being called… to also take as many Ferrari parts as possible initially. They can then, 1) check out the Ferrari stuff at close quarters, 2) have a few years to tool and recruit for themselves.

GM re-badge Ilmor engines as Chevy for Indycar, that’s a V6-T ICE but I’d image it’s on the agricultural side compared to an F1 V6-T. Even so the relationship is long standing and the UK Ilmor factory is in Brixworth near the Mercedes HPPT factory so staff poaching potential would seem ripe.

Bottas appears to be top of the non-US driver list. With his steady hands, experience at Mercedes (Merc seem keen to install him as test/development driver which says a lot) I think A-C-G would be crazy to not employ him. In the second car I’d still like Colton Herta to get an F1 shot, but he’s still short of SL points…

Interesting times

 

[gswindale]

GM re-badge Ilmor engines as Chevy for Indycar, that’s a V6-T ICE but I’d image it’s on the agricultural side compared to an F1 V6-T. Even so the relationship is long standing and the UK Ilmor factory is in Brixworth near the Mercedes HPPT factory so staff poaching potential would seem ripe.

Interesting times

Ilmor have connections with Mercedes though don't they? When Mercedes first entered F1 as an engine supplier to Sauber in 1993 it was initially Ilmor supplying the engines, so I'd always assumed that it was that entity still building the Mercedes power units now?

 

[DarloRich]

GM re-badge Ilmor engines as Chevy for Indycar, that’s a V6-T ICE but I’d image it’s on the agricultural side compared to an F1 V6-T. Even so the relationship is long standing and the UK Ilmor factory is in Brixworth near the Mercedes HPPT factory so staff poaching potential would seem ripe.

Ilmor have connections with Mercedes though don't they? When Mercedes first entered F1 as an engine supplier to Sauber in 1993 it was initially Ilmor supplying the engines, so I'd always assumed that it was that entity still building the Mercedes power units now?

IRC ( so might be wrong)

Ilmor was part owned by Chrysler who then sold thier stake to Mercedes ( say c.25%) who eventual increased the share holding to 50% plus and renamed the company something grand like Mercedes BENZ AMG F1 Powertrains UK LTD

The original owners of Ilmor spun off part of the Mercedes company to continue making the Indy car engines and after various names it is now know as Ilmor Engineering Limited ( which is what it was originally called) It is based in Brixworth ( as are Mercedes F1 engines) but iam not sure they still build racing engines

 

[Mogster]

IRC ( so might be wrong)

Ilmor was part owned by Chrysler who then sold thier stake to Mercedes ( say c.25%) who eventual increased the share holding to 50% plus and renamed the company something grand like Mercedes BENZ AMG F1 Powertrains UK LTD

The original owners of Ilmor spun off part of the Mercedes company to continue making the Indy car engines and after various names it is now know as Ilmor Engineering Limited ( which is what it was originally called) It is based in Brixworth ( as are Mercedes F1 engines) but iam not sure they still build racing engines

Looking online as well as the Indycar Chevy engines they produce engines for NASCAR, IMSA, WEC and other series, powerboats also. Brixworth is the hub with a satellite site in the US.

Sure Toto would be made up if they start work on a GM F1 engine project next door…

 

[JD2168]

Monza has agreed a deal to remain as host of the Italian Grand Prix until 2031.

 

[Tetragon213]

it is under threat. It has to be.

You'd think that, but there's been months and months of "Sergio Perez underperforming" stories and yet nothing regarding Red Bull even contemplating dropping him!

Surely he can't last much longer, especially if he costs RBR P2 in the Constructors?

 

[DarloRich]

You'd think that, but there's been months and months of "Sergio Perez underperforming" stories and yet nothing regarding Red Bull even contemplating dropping him!

it is telling Red Bull/ Visa Cash App red bull F1 reserve racing team haven't confirmed thier line up for next year. He is a gonna.

 

[66701GBRF]

Surely he can't last much longer, especially if he costs RBR P2 in the Constructors?

Horner doesn't care about the constructors. He has said as much in a past interview. I can't remember when or where I saw it but it always stuck with me because I thought that was very poor for a team principal in a team sport.

 

[357]

Horner doesn't care about the constructors. He has said as much in a past interview. I can't remember when or where I saw it but it always stuck with me because I thought that was very poor for a team principal in a team sport.

The rest of the team do as their bonus is reliant on their place in the constructors.