Formula 1

[birchesgreen]

Redbull have made Max and a great car unbeatable.

Ferrari have made Charles and a great car very beatable.

 

[DarloRich]

Ferarri clown show sunday happens again: not enough tyres for Sainz. Race ruined.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ferarri clown show sunday happens again: not enough tyres for Sainz. Race ruined.

Time for a re-release of “three wheels on my wagon”…

 

[JamesT]

I’m possibly giving in to the conspiracy theories, but Tsunoda stopping seemed very strange. Stopped because he thought the wheel was loose, told to continue back to the pits, tyres changed again and they spend an age fiddling with his seatbelt, goes back out again and has to stop again but this time can’t make it back to the pits triggering the VSC.

 

[birchesgreen]

Why would AlphaTauri do something to help Mercedes?

 

[JamesT]

Why would AlphaTauri do something to help Mercedes?

The VSC helped Max. He got a cheaper second stop that brought him closer to the Mercs.

 

[DarloRich]

I’m possibly giving in to the conspiracy theories, but Tsunoda stopping seemed very strange. Stopped because he thought the wheel was loose, told to continue back to the pits, tyres changed again and they spend an age fiddling with his seatbelt, goes back out again and has to stop again but this time can’t make it back to the pits triggering the VSC.

I think the simplest answer is Tsunoda thought there was a problem and slowed up then stopped. He undid partialy his belts to prepare a bail out only to be told to drive back into the pits. Once there they did up his belts and sent him out only for the problem the team told him he didnt have to actually appear and end his race!

That or a fix. One or the other

Anyway Verstappen would have passed both mercs easily before the end. He had the pace. I think if i were Red Bull and 2700000 points ahead in the championship i would play my fix card when i really needed it. Like the end of last season.......

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2022 ==

EDIT: Tsunoda gets a reprimand for driving on track in an unsafe condition

( he undid his belts as i suggested - failure was a transmission issue)

 

[43172]

I’m possibly giving in to the conspiracy theories, but Tsunoda stopping seemed very strange. Stopped because he thought the wheel was loose, told to continue back to the pits, tyres changed again and they spend an age fiddling with his seatbelt, goes back out again and has to stop again but this time can’t make it back to the pits triggering the VSC.

I think the front left had a cross threaded wheel nut, and that Yuki felt that it wasn't secured on despite the mechanic giving the green light to the wheel being attached. Also when he returns to the pits the front left comes off at a slower speed compared to the other tyres. Sorting out the seatbelt is fiddly as the halo makes it difficult to see if it's as tight as it needs to be. Then the car breaks once it pulls out of the box but as the pit speed limit is 60km/h (about 37mph) it doesn't appear broken until it rejoins the track before pulling off the track.

 

[Broucek]

It’s time that a VSC or safety car stop came with a five second wait before tyres can be changed

 

[Enthusiast]

It’s time that a VSC or safety car stop came with a five second wait before tyres can be changed

Indeed. The idea of the VSC is to neutralise the race. It is hardly neutralised if a driver who pits during it gains a 12 to 15 second advantage over one who does not. I suggest a delay equal to that advantage is built in to any stop made under a VSC.

 

[davehsug]

I’m possibly giving in to the conspiracy theories, but Tsunoda stopping seemed very strange. Stopped because he thought the wheel was loose, told to continue back to the pits, tyres changed again and they spend an age fiddling with his seatbelt, goes back out again and has to stop again but this time can’t make it back to the pits triggering the VSC.

I don't think you are giving in to conspiracy theories. The first words out of our mouths at home when it happened were much the same. Couldn't have Max not winning the home Garnd Prix now could we. Having said that, it looks like Mercedes are aiming for Ferrari levels of incompetence at times.

 

[najaB]

Indeed. The idea of the VSC is to neutralise the race.

I thought the idea of the VSC was to allow marshals to work safely without requiring a full safety car restart procedure.

 

[66701GBRF]

The conspiracy theory is ridiculous. Max and Redbull are so far ahead they didn’t need to win the race, nor the next few. They are not going to put themselves and their sister team at risk of expulsion from the championships and shatter their reputation just because it’s a home race for one of their drivers.

 

[kristiang85]

The conspiracy theory is ridiculous. Max and Redbull are so far ahead they didn’t need to win the race, nor the next few. They are not going to put themselves and their sister team at risk of expulsion from the championships and shatter their reputation just because it’s a home race for one of their drivers.

Exactly. And Tsunoda was having one of his best weekends in a while - why would AT sacrifice that? And if it was a fix, why not just leave him where he first stopped?

Also the personal attacks on Red Bull's head of strategy on social media are absolutely unacceptable, because she commited the crime of smiling when it happened.

 

[najaB]

Also the personal attacks on Red Bull's head of strategy on social media are absolutely unacceptable, because she commited the crime of smiling when it happened.

Sadly, I suspect that in far too many cases it's also because she had the gall to be female.

 

[Enthusiast]

I thought the idea of the VSC was to allow marshals to work safely without requiring a full safety car restart procedure.

Yes it is. But when it was first introduced it was said that the aim was to ensure that when racing resumes the competitors are in the same position (in terms of placings and gaps between them) as they were when the VSC was imposed. Allowing a "cheap" pitstop does not achieve that.

A full safety car is different. The gaps are closed up, lapped runners unlap themselves and the entire complexion of the race is changed. Allowing a cheap pitstop in those circumstances is perhaps not so unreasonable.

 

[najaB]

Yes it is. But when it was first introduced it was said that the aim was to ensure that when racing resumes the competitors are in the same position (in terms of placings and gaps between them) as they were when the VSC was imposed. Allowing a "cheap" pitstop does not achieve that.

That is true. However, the claim was that the purpose of the VSC was to "neutralise the race".

 

[SurreyCommuter]

How about if you want to stop under SC/VSC conditions then you can but you can't change the compound of tyres on the car. What that would have meant on Sunday was Verstappen not being able to go from Mediums to Hards and then Hards to Softs. The only exception would be if the conditions necessitated a change to intermediates or full wets.

 

[kristiang85]

How about if you want to stop under SC/VSC conditions then you can but you can't change the compound of tyres on the car. What that would have meant on Sunday was Verstappen not being able to go from Mediums to Hards and then Hards to Softs. The only exception would be if the conditions necessitated a change to intermediates or full wets.

I think the rule is fine as it is. It adds a strategic element to races - if you run long, then its a risk you take. Over a season the 'luck' evens out. Same with full SC.

What does need changing is red flag rules - if you want to change tyres either change for the most similar compound and age, or go down 5 places, and if you need to fix anything on the car then go to the back of the grid, like you would if you fixed it in a normal SC. That's always got my goat.

 

[GB]

It’s not a problem that needs changing as far as I’m concerned. Sometimes you benefit from it, sometimes you don’t. The teams all know the score and have it within one of their many strategies.

 

[Broucek]

What does need changing is red flag rules - if you want to change tyres either change for the most similar compound and age, or go down 5 places, and if you need to fix anything on the car then go to the back of the grid, like you would if you fixed it in a normal SC. That's always got my goat.

Agreed. In Indycar, you are stuck with the tyres you were on (and fuel load) when the race was stopped. That seems fair. And made the end of the oval race a couple of weeks ago absolutely fascinating

 

[birchesgreen]

I don't see why we need to change the rules just because Lord Lewis was inconvenienced. He has benefited from the same rules plenty of times.

 

[Enthusiast]

That is true. However, the claim was that the purpose of the VSC was to "neutralise the race".

Since we're splitting hairs, I did not say that the purpose of the VSC was to neutralise the race. I said the idea was to do so. So how about "The idea was to neutralise the race to enable marshals to enter the track safely." Does that sound better?

To expand a little, there was already a method to allow marshals on to the track - double-waved yellows warning drivers that marshals were on the track and to be prepared to stop. Following the death of Jules Bianchi in Japan in 2014 it was decided that a safer protection was required. The VSC was introduced as a replacement for double waved yellow flags. So I imagine the thinking was "How can we neutralise the race so as to allow a safer environment when marshals are attending incidents?"

Whatever its primary purpose, the VSC is supposed to neutralise the race and that is not achieved if drivers can gain an advantage from it by pitting.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Since we're splitting hairs, I did not say that the purpose of the VSC was to neutralise the race. I said the idea was to do so. So how about "The idea was to neutralise the race to enable marshals to enter the track safely." Does that sound better?

To expand a little, there was already a method to allow marshals on to the track - double-waved yellows warning drivers that marshals were on the track and to be prepared to stop. Following the death of Jules Bianchi in Japan in 2014 it was decided that a safer protection was required. The VSC was introduced as a replacement for double waved yellow flags. So I imagine the thinking was "How can we neutralise the race so as to allow a safer environment when marshals are attending incidents?"

Whatever its primary purpose, the VSC is supposed to neutralise the race and that is not achieved if drivers can gain an advantage from it by pitting.

Absolutely there should be no pitting allowed whenever a safety incident result in VSC or full safety car but we won't get that as the races will become a procession again

 

[AM9]

Absolutely there should be no pitting allowed whenever a safety incident result in VSC or full safety car but we won't get that as the races will become a procession again

Instead, it is less of a fair sport competition and more a contrived entertainment even staged for a TV audience. The most blatant example being the fiasco of last year's final race, spiced-up to please the TV broadcasters.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Instead, it is less of a fair sport competition and more a contrived entertainment even staged for a TV audience. The most blatant example being the fiasco of last year's final race, spiced-up to please the TV broadcasters.

For sure but for that to change needs the drivers and team owners to press for change but plenty of them have benefitted from it of course and all of them would end up with a lot less money than today.

I for one won't pay to watch it happy to wait till C4 highlights these days

 

[AM9]

For sure but for that to change needs the drivers and team owners to press for change but plenty of them have benefitted from it of course and all of them would end up with a lot less money than today.

I for one won't pay to watch it happy to wait till C4 highlights these days

I agree, it just shows what a sham F1 is.

 

[DarloRich]

I for one won't pay to watch it happy to wait till C4 highlights these days

I like the radio 5 coverage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2022 ==

Also the personal attacks on Red Bull's head of strategy on social media are absolutely unacceptable, because she commited the crime of smiling when it happened.

Sadly, I suspect that in far too many cases it's also because she had the gall to be female.

I note Alpha Tauri have issued a statement condemning the abuse of the Red Bull strategy lead. Rightly.

 

[kristiang85]

Why is it everytime Hamilton encounters an issue in a race, there is a significant group of his insane fans on social media that come up with a conspiracy theory of some sort? This week its because Red Bull fixed it and Mercedes prefer George. They are mad. It's been going on for years too. This year alone pretty much every race George beats him there is some excuse pedalled about.

I've never known anything like it, and it makes F1 social media such a miserable place unfortunately. I guess it hasn't helped that him and Toto create a kind of siege mentality that the world is against them, even in their dominant years.

 

[Broucek]

Why is it everytime Hamilton encounters an issue in a race, there is a significant group of his insane fans on social media that come up with a conspiracy theory of some sort? This week its because Red Bull fixed it and Mercedes prefer George. They are mad. It's been going on for years too. This year alone pretty much every race George beats him there is some excuse pedalled about.

I've never known anything like it, and it makes F1 social media such a miserable place unfortunately. I guess it hasn't helped that him and Toto create a kind of siege mentality that the world is against them, even in their dominant years.

I agree. And there's another, equally insane, group that hates Hamilton to the extent that ANY F1 story gives them a chance to moan about him. I therefore avoid social media about contemporary F1