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Formula 1

DarloRich

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Masi has been nothing but incompetent since taking the job,
they have made a rod for their own back by not reigning Verstappen, & to a lesser extent Hamilton, in sooner - Verstappen has been itching for a crash for a couple of races and only maturity form Hamilton has prevented it from happening.
 
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JamesT

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Given how many yellow flags etc. there had been already, I wonder if Hamilton’s first reaction to seeing Max slow down was to do the same in case it was another one rather than trying to overtake and get penalised.
 

Peregrine 4903

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The thing I don't get, is Verstappen is slowing down so why doesn't Lewis just overtake anyway. Like he would when he approaches any other car that is slowing down. I get the DRS thing, but then that means Lewis was purposefully not overtaking and tailgating, which is a bit dodgy itself. I really don't see how you can blame Vertappen for that particular incident.
 

LOL The Irony

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they have made a rod for their own back by not reigning Verstappen, & to a lesser extent Hamilton, in sooner - Verstappen has been itching for a crash for a couple of races and only maturity form Hamilton has prevented it from happening.
I tend to agree, Verstappen especially. There's letting them race and then there's allowing blatantly poor and dangerous driving standards. I was starting to come on side to Verstappen but he keeps doing crap like this and expects to be taken as a serious driver.

Leclerc is another one who gets away with more than his fair share of incidents, to the point I "joke" that he's courting Masi.
Given how many yellow flags etc. there had been already, I wonder if Hamilton’s first reaction to seeing Max slow down was to do the same in case it was another one rather than trying to overtake and get penalised.
That would be a logical conclusion.
The thing I don't get, is Verstappen is slowing down so why doesn't Lewis just overtake anyway. Like he would when he approaches any other car that is slowing down. I get the DRS thing, but then that means Lewis was purposefully not overtaking and tailgating, which is a bit dodgy itself. I really don't see how you can blame Vertappen for that particular incident.
See above. You don't expect to see a slowing car on the racing line.
 

Peregrine 4903

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I tend to agree, Verstappen especially. There's letting them race and then there's allowing blatantly poor and dangerous driving standards. I was starting to come on side to Verstappen but he keeps doing crap like this and expects to be taken as a serious driver.

Leclerc is another one who gets away with more than his fair share of incidents, to the point I "joke" that he's courting Masi.

That would be a logical conclusion.

See above. You don't expect to see a slowing car on the racing line.
Yes I get that, but then just overtake him. Why dawdle about behind him.
 

DarloRich

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I tend to agree, Verstappen especially. There's letting them race and then there's allowing blatantly poor and dangerous driving standards. I was starting to come on side to Verstappen but he keeps doing crap like this and expects to be taken as a serious driver.
It is youth and immaturity. Hamilton was the same, if not quite as hot headed
Yes I get that, but then just overtake him. Why dawdle about behind him.
Because Verstappen was trying to give the place back with out doing so. He was setting up a DRS bounce a the first opportunity. Verstappen was trying to be clever and got found out. Hamilton was either clever enough not to bite if he knew or he was a victim of some silliness if he didnt.
 

DarloRich

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10 second penalty for max (no change to result) + 2 penalty points. Stewards saying that he did brake sharper prior to the collision. Right call imo
Agreed - we was trying it on and got found out.

The thing is none of it was required. Roll in second, go on to the last race and try your silliness there. Verstappen wins the title if neither person scores point due to race win count back. Throw a move like that Ocon restart dive up the inside/T bone attempt and take Hamilton out. Schumacher would ;)
 

JamesRowden

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I see it as Max Verstappen is acting in the way he is because of the following combination of elements:
  • His desperation to win the championship.
  • How tight the championship is.
  • His lack of honour.
  • Common human characteristic of making quick irrational decisions when bad news comes since people generally take time to accept bad news.
 

LOL The Irony

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For forum rules, here it is in quote form
The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, summoned (documents 39 & 40) and heard from the drivers and team representatives, have considered the following matter and determine the following: No / Driver 33 - Max Verstappen Competitor Red Bull Racing Honda Time 22:19 Session Race Fact Car 33 braked in a manner which caused a collision with Car 44 in turn 26. Offence Breach of Article 2 (e) Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code. Decision 10 second time penalty imposed after the race (10 seconds added to elapsed race time). 2 penalty points (total of 7 for the 12 month period). Reason The Stewards heard from the driver of Car 33 (Max Verstappen), the driver of car 44 (Lewis Hamilton) and team representative, reviewed the video and telemetry evidence and determined that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly at fault. At turn 21 the driver of car 33 was given the instruction to give back a position to car 44 and was told by the team to do so “strategically”. Car 33 slowed significantly at turn 26. However, it was obvious that neither driver wanted to take the lead prior to DRS detection line 3. The driver of Car 33 stated that he was wondering why Car 44 had not overtaken and the driver of Car 44 stated that, not having been aware at that stage that Car 33 was giving the position back, was unaware of the reason Car 33 was slowing. In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration. Whilst accepting that the driver of Car 44 could have overtaken Car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he (and the driver of Car 33) did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS. However, the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision and hence the standard penalty of 10 seconds for this type of incident, is imposed. Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and Chapter 4 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits.


Garry Connelly Silvia Bellot Vitantonio Liuzzi Hassan AlAbdali
 

DarloRich

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I see it as Max Verstappen is acting in the way he is because of the following combination of elements:
  • His desperation to win the championship.
  • How tight the championship is.
  • His lack of honour.
  • Common human characteristic of making quick irrational decisions when bad news comes since people generally take time to accept bad news.
He is a kid rather than lacking decency/honour. A bit of maturity would show him how to cheat bend the rules like Schumacher was an expert at doing. Hamilton would do something similar but cant afford a crash, the difference is Verstappen can.
 

JamesT

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He is a kid rather than lacking decency/honour. A bit of maturity would show him how to cheat bend the rules like Schumacher was an expert at doing. Hamilton would do something similar but cant afford a crash, the difference is Verstappen can.

He’s 24 now and racing in his seventh season of F1. How long can it be considered youthful over-exuberance before it becomes a character flaw?
 

DarloRich

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I doubt the FIA will take kindly to him taking Lewis out in a crash.
I am not talking, really, about a Schui shimmy. That overtaking move by Verstappen on the Ocon restart was superb, but it had a useful side effect if it happened to take out Hamilton. He could hardly be penalised for a crash there. The door was open.

He’s 24 now and racing in his seventh season of F1. How long can it be considered youthful over-exuberance before it becomes a character flaw?
Don't know - but Hamilton made plenty of mistakes at that age. I quite like Verstappen and think he will be a multi time world champion. He just needs to cool down and focus.
 

LOL The Irony

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Don't know - but Hamilton made plenty of mistakes at that age. I quite like Verstappen and think he will be a multi time world champion. He just needs to cool down and focus.
Will he make it to such a position though? The 2 longest serving drivers have both taken sabbaticals, either by choice or force.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

This has been posted on the internet. If you know, you know.
[image removed on second thoughts]
 
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LOL The Irony

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Very tasteful.
It isn't very tasteful but it's one of the more light hearted things out there. Twitter just turns into a toxic mess most races, basically repeating a bunch of he said, she said arguments.
Quite bemused people saying Max has a lack of honour, you could say that against most world champions, indeed in most sports.
I don't think he lacks honour, just maturity.
 

DarloRich

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It isn't very tasteful but it's one of the more light hearted things out there. Twitter just turns into a toxic mess most races, basically repeating a bunch of he said, she said arguments.

I don't think he lacks honour, just maturity.

I ma afraid both points pass me by - sorry ( i saw the image but didn't get it)
 

GB

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I ma afraid both points pass me by - sorry ( i saw the image but didn't get it)

I briefly saw the image and assume it has something to do with the 737MAX 's reputation of killing/hurting people and the image of Max on the flight deck of a 737 at the Mercedes factory suggesting he is going to end up killing/hurting someone?
 

Spamcan81

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I think the stewards bottled it. Discussing what sort of penalty Red Bull would agree to after one incident and applying a penalty that had no material effect on race result and therefore the points scored after the rear end shunt. I honestly think that they do not want to be accused of deciding the championship by applying the rules and issuing penalties that would affect the end result.
 

SynthD

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This may be the first time I’m disappointed in Verstappen winning driver of the day probably through Dutch fans voting for him despite anything.
 

najaB

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This may be the first time I’m disappointed in Verstappen winning driver of the day probably through Dutch fans voting for him despite anything.
Agreed. Ocon is much more deserving of it than Verstappen. Started ninth and was 0.1s off the podium.
 

LOL The Irony

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i saw the image but didn't get it
Same here.
I briefly saw the image and assume it has something to do with the 737MAX 's reputation of killing/hurting people and the image of Max on the flight deck of a 737 at the Mercedes factory suggesting he is going to end up killing/hurting someone?
It's a parody of a KLM promotional image from the 1970's, featuring one of their most senior 747 pilots.
I think the stewards bottled it. Discussing what sort of penalty Red Bull would agree to after one incident and applying a penalty that had no material effect on race result and therefore the points scored after the rear end shunt.
They could've given Max a harsher penalty but Masi was way, way worse.
I honestly think that they do not want to be accused of deciding the championship by applying the rules and issuing penalties that would affect the end result.
Does a good job of summing it up.
This may be the first time I’m disappointed in Verstappen winning driver of the day probably through Dutch fans voting for him despite anything.
Sad, but true.
Agreed. Ocon is much more deserving of it than Verstappen. Started ninth and was 0.1s off the podium.
100% Ocon was the DotD. He drove faultlessly.
 

EssexGonzo

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I see it as Max Verstappen is acting in the way he is because of the following combination of elements:
  • His desperation to win the championship.
  • How tight the championship is.
  • His lack of honour.
  • Common human characteristic of making quick irrational decisions when bad news comes since people generally take time to accept bad news.
I would tend to agree and add……

He has a team (and it’s leader) behind him who appear not to be trying to calm him down and coach him. Any class that RB have is slipping away. He will only carry on as is if the team continue to endorse every move he makes and argue against facts and reality.

And don’t forget….Red Bull makes you Whinge. (Stolen from Twitter).
 
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If I recall Vettel was fairly unlikable when he was at Red Bull and since he's moved on we've found that actually he's not such a bad bloke.
 

AM9

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If I recall Vettel was fairly unlikable when he was at Red Bull and since he's moved on we've found that actually he's not such a bad bloke.
That's interesting, I always thought that he behaved like a spoilt child (much to the disgust of Mark Webber who made some quite cutting remarks about him when Vettel competed with him until they collided and both had to retire). Verstappen seems to have similar infantile traits including a generally disrespect of F1 rules and protoco. Vettel carried those over into his Ferrari years with his infamous insistence that Hamilton brake tested him at Baku, despite the telemetry proving otherwise. Is that the next stage of Verstappen's development?
 

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