Former Grand Central HSTs now with EMT

[SPADTrap]

I’m hearing various sources state that 43467 without a nameplate is being repainted now, can anyone confirm/deny this?

Yeah correct.

 

[SPADTrap]

Not my pic

 

[yorksrob]

It would be nice if they could diagram it to do an evening run from Sheffield to London. Perhaps around 18:30 !

 

[XCTurbostar]

Not my pic

Beast

 

[XCTurbostar]

Also found this image. I wonder if it will go back to being 43067?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/class_58050_toton_traction_depot/40006897871/in/dateposted/

 

[43096]

Could stir the pot here a bit and make the suggestion - off-lease 90s and Mk. 3s from GA will be available at roughly the same time as the wires to Corby go "live" for the first time. Make it happen, EMT. I like my local patch becoming a retirement home for ex-BR stock, even if the average commuter is unlikely to agree!

(inb4 RVAR)

That is a dumb idea. Electrification to Corby due for completion in December 2019. PRM requirement from 01/01/2020. You'd get about 15 days use out of the 90+Mark 3 stock.

 

[SPADTrap]

That is a dumb idea. Electrification to Corby due for completion in December 2019. PRM requirement from 01/01/2020. You'd get about 15 days use out of the 90+Mark 3 stock.

Something is going to have to give come 2020. Neither EMT/XC/VTEC will accept stopping their HSTs come 1JAN20.

 

[43096]

Something is going to have to give come 2020. Neither EMT/XC/VTEC will accept stopping their HSTs come 1JAN20.

XC are getting power doors so will be compliant. VTEC fleet strategy is up in the air currently given NR's failure to deliver the infrastructure to support the extra trains out of Kings Cross, but there are IEPs on order to replace the HST fleet as it currently stands.

Which leaves EMT, where there is a problem.

 

[SPADTrap]

XC are getting power doors so will be compliant. VTEC fleet strategy is up in the air currently given NR's failure to deliver the infrastructure to support the extra trains out of Kings Cross, but there are IEPs on order to replace the HST fleet as it currently stands.

Which leaves EMT, where there is a problem.

Who's doing the work to the XC doors? And the rest of the mods? The IEP cannot manage on the VTEC northern routes so HST future remains to be seen on their patch.

I really can't see come 2020 EMT cancelling half their timetable though.

 

[IanXC]

VTEC fleet strategy is up in the air currently given NR's failure to deliver the infrastructure to support the extra trains out of Kings Cross,

Off topic, but the DfT's failure to fund said (promised to VTEC) infrastructure works.

Who's doing the work to the XC doors? And the rest of the mods? The IEP cannot manage on the VTEC northern routes so HST future remains to be seen on their patch.

I really can't see come 2020 EMT cancelling half their timetable though.

XC HST work I believe is being undertaken by Wabtec at Doncaster, with a set there now and likely to be nearly complete.

I think the jury is still out on IET performance in Scotland away from the wires.

 

[ainsworth74]

The IEP cannot manage on the VTEC northern routes so HST future remains to be seen on their patch.

Gonna a need source for such a certain statement!

 

[xotGD]

Not my pic

Some interesting traction in that phot. Pity about the tram power car sat in the middle.

 

[SPADTrap]

Gonna a need source for such a certain statement!

Other than the driver of the trials appraisal I can't offer anything. Doesnt take much working out though. They'll hold the world up with their timing performance north of the wires.

 

[ainsworth74]

Other than the driver of the trials appraisal I can't offer anything. Doesnt take much working out though. They'll hold the world up with their timing performance north of the wires.

Guess we'll have to wait and see!

 

[SPADTrap]

Guess we'll have to wait and see!

Yeah I'd be interested to hear more as to whether or not they pull it off. I'll let you know if I find anything sourcey

 

[Mugby]

Is that what the livery will be for the ex-GC sets, all over blue same as EMT's 'local services' livery?

What vinyls will be applied?

 

[MG11]

Is that what the livery will be for the ex-GC sets, all over blue same as EMT's 'local services' livery?

What vinyls will be applied?

All of the HST powercars are in that colour and the carriages are in a mix of white, blue and red. I doubt it will be painted in to their metro livery.

 

[XCTurbostar]

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news...ighters-police-1167760#ICID=sharebar_whatsapp
43467 to be named on Platform 6 at Nottingham on 12th Feb 2018.

 

[43096]

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news...ighters-police-1167760#ICID=sharebar_whatsapp
43467 to be named on Platform 6 at Nottingham on 12th Feb 2018.

"Trumpton" and "Officer Dibble" it is then!!!

 

[FQ]

Taken from the article:

Thought to be the only power car in the whole country to carry two nameplates, the power car 43467 is used to carry thousands of customers every day between Nottingham and London.

Eh? I'm struggling to think of any powercars that don't carry two nameplates (unless I've read it the wrong way)? Carrying thousands of customers each day between Nottingham and London? Not yet it isn't!

 

[XCTurbostar]

Taken from the article:

Eh? I'm struggling to think of any powercars that don't carry two nameplates (unless I've read it the wrong way)? Carrying thousands of customers each day between Nottingham and London? Not yet it isn't!

Technically some of the HST40 powercars have two nameplates.

 

[mushroomchow]

Yeah, to reiterate what others have said, there's next to no chance of EMT having replaced or made compliant their existing HST / Mk. 3 rakes by 2020, which makes an RVAR exemption increasingly likely. They have neither the capacity to sideline rakes for upgrade (though admittedly the GC intake do potentially make that possible), or suitable replacements available for either construction in time for that cut-off, or for cascade from any other TOC.

Since they'll most likely have that extension treated as a general license to operate Mk. 3s in certain conditions, they'll be able to use GA's rakes too and the route will become a retirement home of sorts for the stock. Which makes the option viable if we get to 2020 and there's nothing on delivery for EMT. I'd have said that it's more likely that a small fleet of something like 350s will come in for the service, but the DfT is being picky with the EM franchise tender and insisting that only "intercity standard" trains can replace the Meridians on the Corby route, which rules out a lot of regional and / or suburban stock.

The cynic in me also wonders why they'd be taking on an extra 3 HST rakes from GC at this point and pouring time and money into giving them corporate branding if they're going to be off the rails in 22 months' time. If they're really not coming "online" until late Spring / early Summer, that gives you 18 months tops of operation before they have to ground them again. That considered, they may as well have pressed them straight into service with temporary decals - the unpainted VTEC buffet car still doing the rounds on one rake gives a precedent for them to have done so if time was against them to get their money's worth.

If the HSTs are either upgraded or withdrawn by 2020, I'll eat a lump of clinker.

 

[59CosG95]

Yeah, to reiterate what others have said, there's next to no chance of EMT having replaced or made compliant their existing HST / Mk. 3 rakes by 2020, which makes an RVAR exemption increasingly likely. They have neither the capacity to sideline rakes for upgrade (though admittedly the GC intake do potentially make that possible), or suitable replacements available for either construction in time for that cut-off, or for cascade from any other TOC.

Since they'll most likely have that extension treated as a general license to operate Mk. 3s in certain conditions, they'll be able to use GA's rakes too and the route will become a retirement home of sorts for the stock. Which makes the option viable if we get to 2020 and there's nothing on delivery for EMT. I'd have said that it's more likely that a small fleet of something like 350s will come in for the service, but the DfT is being picky with the EM franchise tender and insisting that only "intercity standard" trains can replace the Meridians on the Corby route, which rules out a lot of regional and / or suburban stock.

The cynic in me also wonders why they'd be taking on an extra 3 HST rakes from GC at this point and pouring time and money into giving them corporate branding if they're going to be off the rails in 22 months' time. If they're really not coming "online" until late Spring / early Summer, that gives you 18 months tops of operation before they have to ground them again. That considered, they may as well have pressed them straight into service with temporary decals - the unpainted VTEC buffet car still doing the rounds on one rake gives a precedent for them to have done so if time was against them to get their money's worth.

If the HSTs are either upgraded or withdrawn by 2020, I'll eat a lump of clinker.

Will they? Bearing in mind that HST Mk3s and conventional loco-hauled Mk3s (Mk3a/Mk3b) are different kettles of fish electrically, I can't see that happening unless they opt for loco-haulage with either a loco change at Kettering or a bi-modal loco throughout.

 

[Intercity Exec]

A derrogation for operating mk 3s beyond 2020 is surely unlikely as operators that have complied with the regulation (at great cost) would surely have a claim. If there was a derrogation it would have to be strict so as to encourage/force early withdrawal. There are no simple answers to this problem however, and time is running out.

I understand the VTEC liveried buffet car in use with EMT is on hire from VTEC and still part of their fleet so unless officially transferred would not be reliveried. It is confusing as it is an ex EMT carriage from an ex EMT rake that VTEC rebranded and refurbished (with the existing seating and buffet layout retained). The buffet car is hired back to EMT even though EMT often hire a full HST rake to VTEC. The other carriages of the ex EMT rake VTEC rebranded and refurbished (with the existing seating) runs with a Mallard style buffet car (and generally 2 hired EMT power cars! As a 2+8). The mallard style buffet cars are preferred by VTEC as they can apply their full catering service using these buffet cars.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Would be nice to see VTEC hiring in EMT power cars and getting a non repainted Grand Central pair

 

[Bessie]

"Trumpton" and "Officer Dibble" it is then!!!

If I maybe a pedant the Trumpton policeman is PC McGarry no.452. As well all know the fireman are Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub. Their boss was Captain Flack. If I recall they all rode on Bessie once in a Chigley episode.

 

[Goldie]

43484 was relaxing at Neville Hill this morning.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Would be nice to see VTEC hiring in EMT power cars and getting a non repainted Grand Central pair

At least they'd have the right (as in consistent with the fleet rather than correct, as they're not screaming Valentas ) engines inside 'em!

 

[SPADTrap]

As it stands Stagecoach will have a claim as their plans to have the stock modified were blocked based upon an electrified railway being planned but then cancelled? There is nothing else that can be done other than cancel half the timetable.

A derrogation for operating mk 3s beyond 2020 is surely unlikely as operators that have complied with the regulation (at great cost) would surely have a claim. If there was a derrogation it would have to be strict so as to encourage/force early withdrawal. There are no simple answers to this problem however, and time is running out.

 

[LowLevel]

A derrogation for operating mk 3s beyond 2020 is surely unlikely as operators that have complied with the regulation (at great cost) would surely have a claim. If there was a derrogation it would have to be strict so as to encourage/force early withdrawal. There are no simple answers to this problem however, and time is running out.

I understand the VTEC liveried buffet car in use with EMT is on hire from VTEC and still part of their fleet so unless officially transferred would not be reliveried. It is confusing as it is an ex EMT carriage from an ex EMT rake that VTEC rebranded and refurbished (with the existing seating and buffet layout retained). The buffet car is hired back to EMT even though EMT often hire a full HST rake to VTEC. The other carriages of the ex EMT rake VTEC rebranded and refurbished (with the existing seating) runs with a Mallard style buffet car (and generally 2 hired EMT power cars! As a 2+8). The mallard style buffet cars are preferred by VTEC as they can apply their full catering service using these buffet cars.

EMT were originally using a non standard off lease VTEC buffet car with Mallard seats in one set following the last big round of changes. I'm not sure if it's gone back into VTECs pool or what but it was decided to be more sensible for EMT to use their spec coach instead hence the one VTEC originally did a cheap tart up on making it's way back into an EMT set.