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Football

Purple Train

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Bristol City?
Quite. Sorry, I should have specified!
Assuming so, if your chairman said that the city of Bristol is big enough to sustain a Premier League club, I'd have no argument with that... but that's a long way from having a divine right to be there.
That's probably what he's been meaning but some of it has come out as "we belong there". I'm probably being overly pedantic, but it does really annoy me!
Being pedantic, Bristol already does have a team in the "Premiership" as that's the egg-chasing league. ;)
:oops:
 
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AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
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They should bin the whole thing. It's ruined the game. Glad to have opposed it from the start, and will continue to oppose its insipid creep into the world's most artful sport. Hate it hate it hate it.
 

75A

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VAR should not be scrapped, but all replays should be shown at real speed only.
Felt sorry for Wolves last night, another Referee, a different set of VAR people and the result may well have been different, and what would have happened if the Wolves player had collapsed holding his face, after the Fulham player confronted him?
Made it an interesting game to watch as a neutral though.
 

DarloRich

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Darlo 1 v 1 Rushall Olympic. sigh. 2 critical points thrown away as Darlo surrender another soft equaliser. Played well, dominated the game, missed a hatful of chances, conceded a soft goal.

2 relegation six pointers in a week. 2 points. Sigh. Going down. Wrong manager. Poor recruitment. sigh. When we sacked Alun Armstrong ( who should have gone ta the end of last season) we needed a nonsense, double hard b'stard. We appointed a management consultant.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

They should bin the whole thing. It's ruined the game. Glad to have opposed it from the start, and will continue to oppose its insipid creep into the world's most artful sport. Hate it hate it hate it.
I said it would ruin football....................

( why cant they get this stuff right? It cant be THAT hard. The egg chasers manage it.)
 

Haywain

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75A

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VAR again, this time Newcastle were cheated in injury time after a ridiculous penalty for handball.
The Referee didn't give it initially but was sent to the pitch side monitor where he changed his mind.
 

SuspectUsual

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VAR again, this time Newcastle were cheated in injury time after a ridiculous penalty for handball.
The Referee didn't give it initially but was sent to the pitch side monitor where he changed his mind.

The way UEFA tell their refs to interpret the laws, that was always going to be given. Would have been the same at the other end - nobody was "cheated".

Newcastle faded badly second half and a draw is a fair result.

BT need to stop talking about the mags as if they're plucky underdogs though
 

75A

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The way UEFA tell their refs to interpret the laws, that was always going to be given. Would have been the same at the other end - nobody was "cheated".

Newcastle faded badly second half and a draw is a fair result.

BT need to stop talking about the mags as if they're plucky underdogs though
I agree a draw was a fair result, but I can't agree that was a penalty.
 

JD2168

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VAR again, this time Newcastle were cheated in injury time after a ridiculous penalty for handball.
The Referee didn't give it initially but was sent to the pitch side monitor where he changed his mind.
The strange thing about the penalty was he turned down stronger claims & gave a fairly soft one.

The PSG play was very Luis Enrique Barcelona & Spain, loads of passes, no crosses & not much end product.
 

Harvester

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It looks like a draw at home to AC Milan will guarantee Newcastle a place in the Europa League knockout stage. A win could be enough to reach the Champions League knockout stage, depending on the result of PSG’s last group match!
 

AlterEgo

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I agree a draw was a fair result, but I can't agree that was a penalty.
Absolute insanity to allow an almost guaranteed goalscoring opportunity from such an innocuous offence. Horrible rule, in the bin, along with art-killing VAR. I don't watch live games with VAR any more anyway (World Cup Final excepted) as it cheats the spectator's emotional investment. People who like the spread of VAR are mugs in my view and they don't like football for what it is meant to be - a perfectly balanced game of luck, skill, and human error.
 

SuspectUsual

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Absolute insanity to allow an almost guaranteed goalscoring opportunity from such an innocuous offence

Interesting thought, and I can see where you're coming from.

But how do you resolve that?

A penalty is given for any offence that would result in a direct free kick had it occurred outside the penalty area - and like direct free kicks the way the game restarts doesn't vary dependent on the severity of the offence; that's dealt with by way of the sanction against the player involved (no card, yellow card, red card with one game ban, red card with three game ban, red card and additional sanction [eg Paolo Di Canio when he shoved the ref])

So its inevitable that there will be disparities - eg a two-footed leg-breaker a centimetre outside the box is a free kick, but a tiny clip of the ankle on the line is a penalty.

What are you suggesting? Splitting the direct free kick offences into two subsets where only the "severe" group results in a penalty? Something else?
 

AlterEgo

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Interesting thought, and I can see where you're coming from.

But how do you resolve that?

A penalty is given for any offence that would result in a direct free kick had it occurred outside the penalty area - and like direct free kicks the way the game restarts doesn't vary dependent on the severity of the offence; that's dealt with by way of the sanction against the player involved (no card, yellow card, red card with one game ban, red card with three game ban, red card and additional sanction [eg Paolo Di Canio when he shoved the ref])

So its inevitable that there will be disparities - eg a two-footed leg-breaker a centimetre outside the box is a free kick, but a tiny clip of the ankle on the line is a penalty.

What are you suggesting? Splitting the direct free kick offences into two subsets where only the "severe" group results in a penalty? Something else?
Not sure I've spitballed this before, but penalties are now very overpowered. The goalkeeper is at a significant disadvantage and about 80% result in a goal. This is worse now that penalties are given for more innocuous offences in the VAR era, and more penalties are being awarded.

"A penalty is a special direct free kick given for offences inside the box" is not satisfactory and hasn't been for some time.

I would recommend a two tier direct free kick offence sanction inside the box. Handballs which are unintentional and innocuous and not denying an obvious goal should be penalised with a direct free kick inside the penalty area 12 yards from goal, with defending players allowed to place themselves 10 yards from the ball as with any other direct free kick. The placing of the kick should follow the same rules as an indirect free kick offence committed inside the six yard box, so, not necessarily on the penalty spot but in different positions around the penalty area, all 12 yards from goal. You'd still get a fair few goals from this - remember it's a direct free kick - but not 80%.

Everything else requiring physical contact with an opponent (tripping, kicking, etc) is still a penalty, as well as cynical and deliberate handballs like a handball on the line. However, penalties should be modified. The goalkeeper should be allowed to move off their line as soon as the whistle is blown. This would make for more interesting and less guaranteed penalties. Will you do a one-stepper and take advantage of the wide angle before the goalkeeper gets a yard off their line, or will you take a few steps and read the goalkeeper's advance, all the time he's narrowing the angle? This would bring the scoring rate down from what it is at the moment and increase the interest in penalties, which, in my view, are very boring and too easy a goalscoring opportunity for a professional footballer.
 

AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
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I think that your understanding of the word "art" is somewhat different to my understanding of that particular word. Perhaps the likes of Chopper Harris and Norman Hunter would be outraged to hear their style of play being described as "art".
Oh, are they still playing?

The point is, rules in football up to the last 10 years or so have changed to make it more aesthetically appealing.

Offside was invented specifically to avoid long ball humping and goalhanging, and forced a midfield game. Removal of the backpass except by the head has led to far more exciting games. The offside rule has itself been modified many times to try to be less blunt and more contextual, giving fairer balance to the attacking side, most of which I am in favour of. Professional fouls were outlawed. Dangerous play has been continuously reviewed. I could go on.

Football is not a science. Almost everything in it is contextual. A ball can be definitively in play - something totally binary - yet look out of play to half the stadium. Long may it be the case.
 

SteveP29

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The way UEFA tell their refs to interpret the laws, that was always going to be given. Would have been the same at the other end - nobody was "cheated"

If it was always going to be given, why was the almost exact same handball claim against Lewis Miley earlier in the half not given?
We were also denied a penalty against Arsenal last season at St James' Park for the same reason, ball hits leg, deflects onto arm, no penalty.
Consistency, once again shows match officials up.
 

SuspectUsual

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I would recommend a two tier direct free kick offence sanction inside the box. Handballs which are unintentional [subjective] and innocuous [subjective] and not denying an obvious goal [subjective] should be penalised with a direct free kick inside the penalty area 12 yards from goal

Is that workable? Its difficult enough now with the subjectivity involved in making decisions, but adding extra subjectivity in terms of the sanction would I think just lead to mayhem and a media / pundit / fan meltdown


However, penalties should be modified. The goalkeeper should be allowed to move off their line as soon as the whistle is blown

Wow! That's novel! If the keeper just sprinted as soon as the whistle was blown, and the taker was stood three steps from the ball as most do, he'd be a yard or two away when it was kicked. Not sure that's going to happen any time soon
 

Haywain

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If it was always going to be given, why was the almost exact same handball claim against Lewis Miley earlier in the half not given?
That's a fair question.
We were also denied a penalty against Arsenal last season at St James' Park for the same reason, ball hits leg, deflects onto arm, no penalty.
That's irrelevant as the instructions UEFA give to referees for their competitions do not apply to Premier League matches.
Consistency, once again shows match officials up.
The problem here is that the instructions from governing bodies are not consistent.
 

AlterEgo

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Is that workable? Its difficult enough now with the subjectivity involved in making decisions, but adding extra subjectivity in terms of the sanction would I think just lead to mayhem and a media / pundit / fan meltdown
Possibly, but I think nearly all handballs fall into the accidental/avoidable category rather than cynical or deliberate. People don't like penalties being awarded for very minor and accidental infractions.

Wow! That's novel! If the keeper just sprinted as soon as the whistle was blown, and the taker was stood three steps from the ball as most do, he'd be a yard or two away when it was kicked. Not sure that's going to happen any time soon
It would at least eliminate long and boring run ups! But I think it really ought to be trialled. It's a free shot 12 yards from goal. Take it in one or two steps. And if he's almost on top of you, nutmeg him. I can guarantee this would be more exciting and require more skill and theatre than the current setup!

Alternatively, allow the kicker two touches. One to work an angle and one to shoot. Or, ban all rebounds. All players to the centre circle except keeper and kicker, and if it's saved, too bad, it's saved, and a goal kick is awarded.

Penalties as they are now are nonsense though, a really rubbish and overpowered sanction.
 

SuspectUsual

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Penalties as they are now are nonsense though, a really rubbish and overpowered sanction

One in five is missed or saved, that's a decent proportion.

But if you want a sport where a penalty really is an overpowered sanction, have a look at rugby union - pretty much anything in the opponent's half can be kicked nowadays, whereas outside the 22 and/or on the touchline used often to be missed


I think nearly all handballs fall into the accidental/avoidable category rather than cynical or deliberate

The problem is that a player can - say - go out to block a cross and have his arms sticking out a bit. Ball hits his arm. Did he absolutely intend it to hit his arm? Probably not, so you'd say not deliberate. But did he put his arm there so that the ball might just hit it? Quite probably. So what is or isn't deliberate? It's so nuanced, from the opposite extremes of Suarez emulating a goalie in the World Cup to a ball deflecting onto a defender's arm at point blank range. Like with offside, you have to draw a line, and when you draw a line inevitably something is just the wrong side of the line occasionally and people get upset about it

Obviously what we have now with defenders trying to run whilst holding their arms behind their backs is an overreaction though
 

DarloRich

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VAR again, this time Newcastle were cheated in injury time after a ridiculous penalty for handball.
The Referee didn't give it initially but was sent to the pitch side monitor where he changed his mind.
I am dead against VAR until the moment it screws over then mags!
 

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