Football

[DarloRich]

In the end, if this co-operation does go into competition with the football associations, it is the customers/fans who have all the money and will determine the result. It is these clubs who are taking the financial risk in order to attract people to support the way that they want things to be run.

They want to things run in a way that makes sure they get all the money. That's all. Nothing else. The fans don't matter. History doesn't matter, sporting merit doesn't matter, integrity does not matter. Money. Money matters.

if you are defending this idea you have a very different understanding of football to me!

The similarity is that the premier league, whilst not pulling up the drawbridge, was all about doing their own commercial deals to concentrate a bigger share of more money in fewer hands.

Indeed - but the concept of sporting merit still applies to the PL. The proposed Super Duper league removes that entirely and allows the biggest clubs in Europe ( and Spurs and Arsenal) to ensure they have all the money all the time by doing away with sporting merit.

Imagine: Well done Leicester on winning the PL. No, you cant play in our league. Unlucky. Mind how you go. Of course Arsenal and Spurs can play even though they are mid table clubs. Why? WHY? because they are BIG. You aren't.

That is what this proposal creates and it stinks. Anyone suggesting otherwise is wrong and is a plastic ne nowt. Pick a side. Football or bankers.

 

[JamesRowden]

They want things run in a way that makes sure they get all the money. That's all. Nothing else. The fans don't matter. History doesn't matter, sporting merit doesn't matter, integrity does not matter. Money. Money matters.

if you are defending this idea you have a very different understanding of football to me!



Indeed - but the concept of sporting merit still applies to the PL. The proposed Super Duper league removes that entirely and allows the biggest clubs in Europe ( and Spurs and Arsenal) to ensure they have all the money all the time by doing away with sporting merit.

Imagine: Well done Leicester on winning the PL. No, you cant play in our league. Unlucky. Mind how you go. Of course Arsenal and Spurs can play even though they are mid table clubs. Why? WHY? because they are BIG. You aren't.

That is what this proposal creates and it stinks. Anyone suggesting otherwise is wrong and is a plastic ne nowt. Pick a side. Football or bankers.

All the money comes from the pockets of fans, and then primarily ends up with the footballers. Unless there is an owner who wants to effectively buy titles.

 

[roversfan2001]

All the money comes from the pockets of fans, and then primarily ends up with the footballers. Unless there is an owner who wants to effectively buy titles.

Quite simply not true, and hasn't been for a while. In the Premier League, sponsorship and TV revenue blows matchday income out of the water. Below the Premier League is a different story, especially once you get to Leagues One and Two.

 

[DarloRich]

All the money comes from the pockets of fans, and then primarily ends up with the footballers. Unless there is an owner who wants to effectively buy titles.

That's nonsense as far as the Premier League and match going fans are concerned. Perhaps you mean consumers who watch games on TV via a subscription service

 

[scotrail158713]

Unless there is an owner who wants to effectively buy titles

Man City?

I'd agree with @roversfan2001 though - I'm not sure how much gate receipts on their own matter to big teams.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Indeed - but the concept of sporting merit still applies to the PL. The proposed Super Duper league removes that entirely and allows the biggest clubs in Europe ( and Spurs and Arsenal) to ensure they have all the money all the time by doing away with sporting merit.

Imagine: Well done Leicester on winning the PL. No, you cant play in our league. Unlucky. Mind how you go. Of course Arsenal and Spurs can play even though they are mid table clubs. Why? WHY? because they are BIG. You aren't.

That is what this proposal creates and it stinks. Anyone suggesting otherwise is wrong and is a plastic ne nowt. Pick a side. Football or bankers.

Oh yes, agree entirely

Never been more glad to support a non league team. And we were in the best game on the telly this weekend as well

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How many football clubs in the top four divisions in English football would survive with the current overseas contingent needing salaries that they feel are the norm abroad., with just the gate monies paid by watching spectators?

 

[scotrail158713]

How many football clubs in the top four divisions in English football would survive with the current overseas contingent needing salaries that they feel are the norm abroad., with just the gate monies paid by watching spectators?

Not many I suspect. Although without wanting to get into a debate about player wages, I suspect players taking a large pay cut would go at least a small way towards assisting the clubs in this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not many I suspect. Although without wanting to get into a debate about player wages, I suspect players taking a large pay cut would go at least a small way towards assisting the clubs in this.

If such a matter ever happened in reality, none of the top players in World football would consider playing in the top four leagues in England with a pay-cut being required part-way through their contractual term, as their contract would be taken to the High Court for confirmation of its veracity.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

One thing that nobody has mentioned is the impact this will have on these clubs football academies. I know some clubs in particular are notorious for stealing talent from other clubs academies but Man Utd for instance has a long and illustrious tradition of building their own players. (Mason Greenwood being a good case in point.) If you were to emerge from one of these academies into a team which is barred from various competitions and unable to compete for your national side, the academies will become unviable very quickly IMO. This sort of thing has knock on impacts, for instance again Man Utd and Liverpool both have long-standing ties with Crewe Alexandra who (barring the odd paedophile coach) are one of the most successful lower league academies in the English game.

 

[WatcherZero]

One of UEFA members has said they will be meeting on Friday with a view to suspending all the clubs from this years Champions League, they will essentially be kicked out of this years tournament and previously knocked out teams will take their place. The Tuesday matches before the meeting will go ahead. Theyve also said they will immediately disqualify participating players from European internationals. The other members of the Premier League are also meeting this week with a view to either immediately docking points or relegating the clubs out of the Premier League.

 

[Darandio]

One of UEFA members has said they will be meeting on Friday with a view to suspending all the clubs from this years Champions League, they will essentially be kicked out of this years tournament and previously knocked out teams will take their place. The Tuesday matches before the meeting will go ahead. Theyve also said they will immediately disqualify participating players from European internationals. The other members of the Premier League are also meeting this week with a view to either immediately docking points or relegating the clubs out of the Premier League.

If the meeting is this Friday then there are no games before the meeting, the first legs of the semi final are next week.

 

[Journeyman]

I thought it was grossly hypocritical to hear Tory MPs decrying the greed and selfishness of clubs, and threatening to intervene, when they'll quite happily let hard-core free market capitalism destroy everything else.

 

[nlogax]

I'm no football fan but this idea strikes me as a bit ridiculous. Where are fans going to get the money to travel to these new exotic encounters? How will even more regular out of country travel work in an already ridiculous match schedule if there are still Premier League matches to squeeze in?

Madness like this is a cynical attempt to generate more cash while playing havoc with the existing fixture list. Makes me think of this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One of UEFA members has said they will be meeting on Friday with a view to suspending all the clubs from this years Champions League, they will essentially be kicked out of this years tournament and previously knocked out teams will take their place. The Tuesday matches before the meeting will go ahead. Theyve also said they will immediately disqualify participating players from European internationals. The other members of the Premier League are also meeting this week with a view to either immediately docking points or relegating the clubs out of the Premier League.

I should imagine the lawyers will have a financial field-day should the matter come before the courts.

 

[507021]

I thought it was grossly hypocritical to hear Tory MPs decrying the greed and selfishness of clubs, and threatening to intervene, when they'll quite happily let hard-core free market capitalism destroy everything else.

Also not forgetting the billions of pounds of taxpayers' money given to their friends under the guise of bogus contracts.

 

[JamesT]

I'm no football fan but this idea strikes me as a bit ridiculous. Where are fans going to get the money to travel to these new exotic encounters? How will even more regular out of country travel work in an already ridiculous match schedule if there are still Premier League matches to squeeze in?

Madness like this is a cynical attempt to generate more cash while playing havoc with the existing fixture list. Makes me think of this.

Note that UEFA were already talking about an expanded Champions League with more matches. The difference with the ESL is that it’s a relatively closed shop, no fairytale of Raith Rovers winning the cup and being in Europe against Bayern Munich. Conversely, Liverpool having a relatively bad season like this year wouldn’t affect them getting in as they’re guaranteed by being founders.

The most likely casualty of expanding Europe in either method is the League Cup. Clubs playing in Europe already skip 2 of the 7 rounds, I suspect most would be quite happy to skip the rest for more glamorous matches.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I'm no football fan but this idea strikes me as a bit ridiculous. Where are fans going to get the money to travel to these new exotic encounters?

They don’t care. Away fans are an irrelevance - in their world the stadiums are full of home fans and the rest of the world watches on subscription TV, whilst drinking the official wine / beer / coffee / pop of the ESL, eating the official snackfood, and wiping their corpulent backsides on the official bog roll.

 

[birchesgreen]

Not every league has a culture of going to away games on a large scale, I believe its quite rare in Spain for example.

 

[Darandio]

I believe its quite rare in Spain for example.

That's purely due to dwindling allocations and price gouging by the home club, it's been a growing concern there for a few years now. Increasingly erratic scheduling has also played a part in recent years but it wasn't always like that.

Give them a European game over here and a Spanish club will normally fill their allocation easily, over 3000 were at the infamous game at Liverpool immediately before lockdown. Of course that proves fans can travel in numbers to another country but it wouldn't be sustainable every other week in the concept that was being spoken about above.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

The government is reportedly looking into implementing the 50+1 rule for English clubs.

 

[brad465]

I thought it was grossly hypocritical to hear Tory MPs decrying the greed and selfishness of clubs, and threatening to intervene, when they'll quite happily let hard-core free market capitalism destroy everything else.

Free market capitalism is a myth (unless that's what you mean by "hard-core"), and if anything this Super League is a strong example of that (along with housing market interventions, QE and other tools not related to football), given it's essentially a monopoly/got monopolies connected to it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Quite ironic fans etc complaining that this Super League is "all about money" as if the EPL isn't.

 

[Iskra]

Quite ironic fans etc complaining that this Super League is "all about money" as if the EPL isn't.

There’s always going to be the money in the game. The complaint is about allowing fair access to the money for all clubs based on footballing merit, not ringfencing it for an imaginary elite.

Another good result for Leeds tonight. 4pts from Man City and Liverpool with Manchester Utd up next is 4 points more than I was expecting. It’s been a very successful season.

 

[507021]

There’s always going to be the money in the game. The complaint is about allowing fair access to the money for all clubs based on footballing merit, not ringfencing it for an imaginary elite.

Another good result for Leeds tonight. 4pts from Man City and Liverpool with Manchester Utd up next is 4 points more than I was expecting. It’s been a very successful season.

Leeds have been a breath of fresh air for the Premier League and I hope they can stay up long term.

In contrast, Liverpool have been pretty dreadful this season, but the club's owners agreeing to become a part of the European Super League really takes the biscuit. If they don't reconsider their decision, then my 25 years of supporting the club will come to an end once the season concludes and I'll be supporting Marine instead.

 

[backontrack]

I thought it was grossly hypocritical to hear Tory MPs decrying the greed and selfishness of clubs, and threatening to intervene, when they'll quite happily let hard-core free market capitalism destroy everything else.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Bantamzen]

The only thing that surprises me about this is that the ESL hasn't yet started talking about hosting games in the Americas, the Middle East & Asia. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the money supporting this is coming from those directions, and that somewhere down the line teams from those countries will be incorporated. its all been on the cards for years, and whilst many pundits are saying it won't happen I'd still put it at 50/50. All it needs to get off the ground is the hosting subscription network made available worldwide and you'd have hundreds of millions of potential punters.

I seriously fear for the future of the rest of football if it turns into a US style sports franchise, with clubs upping and moving as they chase the cash.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Manchester City have been allocated just 2,000 tickets for Sunday's League Cup final at Wembley. However City were unable to shift all 2,000 to season ticket holders and had to open up sales to members.

Why was this? Unhappiness with the proposed ESL, disrespect for the League Cup or the bizarre travel restrictions?

Only 750 of the 2,000 are to be allowed to travel by car, the rest have to go on coaches or special trains. None of the trains will stop at Wembley Central even though that station is on the WCML. Two will disgorge fans at Euston and one at Watford Junction, forcing supporters to change on to local services or the tube.

What is the point of having socially distancing at the stadium if you force fans to travel in crowded buses and trains to get there?

 

[roversfan2001]

What is the point of having socially distancing at the stadium if you force fans to travel in crowded buses and trains to get there?

They must be seen to be doing something to appease those amongst us who want restrictions to remain. 8,000 fans in a 90,000 seater stadium is a joke.

I think this week's developments will have a lot to do with it, but this shows that even after 14 months without any live football, fans won't tolerate ridiculous rules around what they can and cannot do on matchday. I think under 18s being forbidden from attending will have affected numbers too, season ticket holders would usually bring the whole family along for a day out and will probably just not bother if they have to go alone.

 

[Iskra]

Manchester City have been allocated just 2,000 tickets for Sunday's League Cup final at Wembley. However City were unable to shift all 2,000 to season ticket holders and had to open up sales to members.

Why was this? Unhappiness with the proposed ESL, disrespect for the League Cup or the bizarre travel restrictions?

Only 750 of the 2,000 are to be allowed to travel by car, the rest have to go on coaches or special trains. None of the trains will stop at Wembley Central even though that station is on the WCML. Two will disgorge fans at Euston and one at Watford Junction, forcing supporters to change on to local services or the tube.

What is the point of having socially distancing at the stadium if you force fans to travel in crowded buses and trains to get there?

Personally I wouldn’t pay to attend a game with no atmosphere, which Wembley struggled with at the best of times, so I don’t blame the fans for not wanting to go.