Football

[richw]

Hmm, Ian Holloway appears to be incessantly whinging again. I therefore assume Crystal Palace lost...

Rightly so as well, his whinging was warranted today. Should you see the penalty (that was actually taken down in the "D") and the sending off you'd understand his point.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Rightly so as well, his whinging was warranted today. Should you see the penalty (that was actually taken down in the "D") and the sending off you'd understand his point.

Aye, it might have been today, but it's every time they lose. Everybody's fault but his own team's lack of capability. Idiot. Sooner he ends up in the Championship again so he doesn't grace MOTD with such inane gibberish the better.

 

[CC 72100]

Rightly so as well, his whinging was warranted today. Should you see the penalty (that was actually taken down in the "D") and the sending off you'd understand his point.

Haven't seen it so can't add much, except to say that according to BBC, United had 19 shots and Crystal Palace 4. So of course if there wasn't that penalty and sending off, Crystal Palace would probably have walked it...

 

[richw]

Haven't seen it so can't add much, except to say that according to BBC, United had 19 shots and Crystal Palace 4. So of course if there wasn't that penalty and sending off, Crystal Palace would probably have walked it...

I don't dispute that, but when a team is all over the opposition like united were, and then the referee helps them further with a bad decision with the giving of a red card and penalty, you cant expect the opposition not to whinge about it.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Haven't seen it so can't add much, except to say that according to BBC, United had 19 shots and Crystal Palace 4. So of course if there wasn't that penalty and sending off, Crystal Palace would probably have walked it...

They might have got a point....Away....at Old Trafford....Not exactly walking it, but in relative terms, as good as a win.

The penalty (their first goal which is listed as having been scored in the 45th minute) was a pretty poor decision all round, the player who went down (from outside the box) was a certain Ashley Young, who had already been booked in the game for diving (in the penalty area). The referee (around 24 yards from the incident and behind play) asked his linesman for assistance. The linesman didn't seem to be of any help, so the ref gave the penalty and sent the defender off (although there may have been a covering defender).

It's one of those decisions that I don't think would have been made in the favour of any other team, home or away.

 

[richw]

asked his linesman for assistance. The linesman didn't seem to be of any help, so the ref gave the penalty and sent the defender off (although there may have been a covering defender).

It's one of those decisions that I don't think would have been made in the favour of any other team, home or away.

The linesman could be seen saying "I couldn't see anything" from one of the Match of the Day clips which MOTD discussed.

 

[WCMLaddict]

Evra's dive in first few minutes was equally ridiculous, no penalty given and no card for Evra either ...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Both Bale and Ronaldo score for Real Madrid, who are held to a 2-2 draw by Villarreal this weekend.

 

[richw]

Both Bale and Ronaldo score for Real Madrid, who are held to a 2-2 draw by Villarreal last night.

slight edit for you Paul. the game kick off was 2100 BST last night

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Both Bale and Ronaldo score for Real Madrid, who are held to a 2-2 draw by Villarreal today.

Wasn't that last night?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

slight edit for you Paul. the game kick off was 2100 BST last night

Just seeing how many out there were awake...

Post duly amended to read..."this weekend."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wasn't that last night?

richw beat you to the draw....:cry:

 

[familyguy99]

I see in Scottish premiership league that all six away teams this weekend have win their matches. (Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee United, Hibernian, Inverness and Motherwell were six away teams that win this weekend)

I see Cristiano Ronaldo have sign new contract with Real Madrid will keep him there until 2018, I sure Man Utd will be happy that Ronaldo have sign new Contract at Madrid.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In a match that could well have repercussions, the FA Cup first qualifying round match between Sleaford Town and Huntingdon Town had to be abandoned by the referee following a mass brawl near the end of the game.

 

[JoeH]

The reaction to Ashley Young has been ridiculous.

If he played for any other club it's not only unlikely that anyone would have posted on the subject here, but most people probably wouldn't even been aware that it had happened because it wouldn't have been given media coverage.

A similar incident with Young from two seasons ago has been brought up as an example of a pattern of bad behaviour. In that two seasons I wonder how many dozens of times the likes of Gareth Bale dived without any mention being made of it.

Add this to the Pedro Mendes disallowed goal and Michael Owen scoring against City as things for commentators, pundits and rival fans to bring up constantly for the next decade or more. Expect any similar decisions going against United to not even make the post match highlights package.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Expect any similar decisions going against United to not even make the post match highlights package.

Whilst not being a supporter of Manchester United, I do take heed of what you say above, but fear that such is the inbuilt dislike for your club which appears to have been fostered for many years duration with "pundits" and supporters of other clubs, I fear what you say is unfortunately true.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Delighted with an away win. Bolton not in good form but still the job needed to be done. Luke Varney is becoming more and more influential for Leeds. Really happy with that result.

I'm in France at the moment so haven't seen much live football although the French sports report described a "catalogue" of poor decisions went in Man Utds favour. No shock there then!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The reaction to Ashley Young has been ridiculous.

If he played for any other club it's not only unlikely that anyone would have posted on the subject here, but most people probably wouldn't even been aware that it had happened because it wouldn't have been given media coverage.

A similar incident with Young from two seasons ago has been brought up as an example of a pattern of bad behaviour. In that two seasons I wonder how many dozens of times the likes of Gareth Bale dived without any mention being made of it.

Add this to the Pedro Mendes disallowed goal and Michael Owen scoring against City as things for commentators, pundits and rival fans to bring up constantly for the next decade or more. Expect any similar decisions going against United to not even make the post match highlights package.

I suppose the answer is that he should stop diving then. Bale was nearly as bad but got booked far more often than Young. The factor remains that these decisions, at key times go consistently go in favour of Man Utd

 

[JoeH]

I suppose the answer is that he should stop diving then. Bale was nearly as bad but got booked far more often than Young. The factor remains that these decisions, at key times go consistently go in favour of Man Utd

54 yellow cards issued for simulation in the previous two seasons, and only one of them for Young. If what you say about things being consistently in favour of United is true, then surely the the other 53 bookings must have been given greater prominence in the reporting of the United friendly media than Young's single booking? Yet other than a couple involving Luis Suarez I don't recall any of the others being reported in the media at all, let alone still being brought up after two years.

How about just this forum, then? A search reveals that numerous posters criticised Young for diving after his famous earlier dive. I wonder if the same posters each recorded in excess of another 50 posts criticising other guilty players?

I expect not.

 

[Oswyntail]

54 yellow cards issued for simulation in the previous two seasons, and only one of them for Young. If what you say about things being consistently in favour of United is true, then surely the the other 53 bookings must have been given greater prominence in the reporting of the United friendly media than Young's single booking? .....

I suspect your foot is hurting from the gunshot here. The argument is surely that Young has not been booked often enough for his record of diving, because decisions are biased towards his team.

 

[richw]

JoeH- When even his own manager is criticising him for diving, we can safely assume it is more than a one off occurrence. Didn't Fergie criticise him for it as well last season?

Moyes has even said he wants divers to be retrospectively punished in response to the penalty. Says it all really.

 

[balne-wonderer]

54 yellow cards issued for simulation in the previous two seasons, and only one of them for Young. If what you say about things being consistently in favour of United is true, then surely the the other 53 bookings must have been given greater prominence in the reporting of the United friendly media than Young's single booking? Yet other than a couple involving Luis Suarez I don't recall any of the others being reported in the media at all, let alone still being brought up after two years.

How about just this forum, then? A search reveals that numerous posters criticised Young for diving after his famous earlier dive. I wonder if the same posters each recorded in excess of another 50 posts criticising other guilty players?

I expect not.

You've answered your own question and proved my point to the max. Youngs diving is only made an issue in the media because he gets away with it. He rarely gets booked.

 

[JoeH]

JoeH- When even his own manager is criticising him for diving, we can safely assume it is more than a one off occurrence. Didn't Fergie criticise him for it as well last season?

Moyes has even said he wants divers to be retrospectively punished in response to the penalty. Says it all really.

Young's has had a lot of injuries during his two seasons at United. He hasn't played enough to make diving a regular occurrence. The previous incident that Ferguson criticised him for was nearly two years ago and as I previously pointed out more than 50 other yellow cards have been handed out during that time for simulation.

Your comments about Moyes are far off the mark. Why would Moyes ask for Young to be punished for the incident that resulted in the penalty, considering that was not the dive?

Moyes would have been asked about the incident and would have responded in the same way as the manager would have in any of the other 50+ incidents in the last two years. It's only because it's United that it's been reported.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suspect your foot is hurting from the gunshot here. The argument is surely that Young has not been booked often enough for his record of diving, because decisions are biased towards his team.

How many times do you think Young should have been booked then?

Since it's quite likely that there are now more posts in this thread about him diving than all other players combined, should the figure not be close to 50?

 

[richw]

Young's has had a lot of injuries during his two seasons at United. He hasn't played enough to make diving a regular occurrence. The previous incident that Ferguson criticised him for was nearly two years ago and as I previously pointed out more than 50 other yellow cards have been handed out during that time for simulation.

Your comments about Moyes are far off the mark. Why would Moyes ask for Young to be punished for the incident that resulted in the penalty, considering that was not the dive?

Moyes would have been asked about the incident and would have responded in the same way as the manager would have in any of the other 50+ incidents in the last two years. It's only because it's United that it's been reported.

Fergie young incident was in April 2012, considerably less than 2 years ago, in fact closer to 1 year than 2 years if you wish to round the date up or down.
The penalty was a dive, and it was outside the box so should be a free kick anyway.
Moyes has been highly critical of Young in the media, referring to more than 1 incident, as he uses plural language.

 

[JoeH]

You've answered your own question and proved my point to the max. Youngs diving is only made an issue in the media because he gets away with it. He rarely gets booked.

There are two well known examples of him 'diving' and in both cases he was booked. If he dives and gets away it as frequently as you claim it should be easy for you to provide examples of that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fergie young incident was in April 2012, considerably less than 2 years ago, in fact closer to 1 year than 2 years if you wish to round the date up or down.
The penalty was a dive, and it was outside the box so should be a free kick anyway.
Moyes has been highly critical of Young in the media, referring to more than 1 incident, as he uses plural language.

I believe the previous incident took place in November 2011, nearly 2 years ago.

The penalty was not a dive. Nothing close to being a dive. The fact it might have been outside of the box has absolutely nothing to do with Ashley Young anyway. Are you sure you've even seen the incident?

 

[richw]

I believe the previous incident took place in November 2011, nearly 2 years ago.

The penalty was not a dive. Nothing close to being a dive. The fact it might have been outside of the box has absolutely nothing to do with Ashley Young anyway. Are you sure you've even seen the incident?

That will be 15th April 2012 Vs Aston Villa.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...shley-young-penalty?guni=Article:in body link

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/apr/20/alex-ferguson-has-word-ashley-young

And yes I have seen the incident, and it was not a foul in anyway. His theatrical fall conned the ref it was within the box, he ended almost at the penalty spot for a foul in the D.

 

[JoeH]

That will be 15th April 2012 Vs Aston Villa.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...shley-young-penalty?guni=Article:in body link

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/apr/20/alex-ferguson-has-word-ashley-young

And yes I have seen the incident, and it was not a foul in anyway. His theatrical fall conned the ref it was within the box, he ended almost at the penalty spot for a foul in the D.

Not the match I was thinking of then.

I haven't read a single report of the match that called the penalty incident anything other than a foul. It's possibly outside of the box but nobody but you seems to think it was a dive.

 

[richw]

Not the match I was thinking of then.

Brilliant so you admit there was additional incidents of diving.

but nobody but you seems to think it was a dive.

Other than The Times
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/clubs/manchesterunited/article3869282.ece

Steve Parish in the Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...traight-red-says-Crystal-Palace-chairman.html

Daily Star
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...Palace-chairman-slams-Manchester-United-diver

In fact every other newspaper suggests it was simulated. Now for you to provide me with a statement from a source stating it was a foul?

 

[JoeH]

I could provide video evidence to prove my point, but the last time I did that one of the many bitter anti United posters here exploited the death of a fan who had died that day in an attempt to discredit me.

 

[richw]

How about a media source that states it was a foul?
I appreciate it may be near impossible, as every single one I've seen have said it wasn't a foul.

 

[JoeH]

For a start in the BT Sport coverage of the match. Both Neil Warnock and Steve McManaman, who had earlier claimed that Young should have been sent off for the earlier dive, acknowledged that it was a foul. Former refereee Mark Halsey, working for BT Sport insisted it was a foul.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23999569 "Kagisho Dikgacoi was adjudged to have fouled Ashley Young. Dikgacoi was red-carded, with Palace unhappy at the decision and arguing the offence took place outside the area." - If it wasn't a foul what would Dikacoi's offence be and why would Palace complain that it happened outside the box?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo.../Manchester-United-v-Crystal-Palace-live.html "there's no doubt Dikgacoi brought Young down from behind"

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/238055.html "Kagisho Dikgacoi was red-carded for denying Ashley Young a clear goal-scoring opportunity"

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...l-Palace-0-Wayne-Rooney-is-back-in-the-groove "Jon Moss gave United a penalty and sent off Kagisho Dikgacoi for bringing down Ashley Young"

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...al-Palace-0-Wayne-Rooney-too-smart-for-Palace "Dikgacoi caught the former Aston Villa player"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24105809 "Dikgacoi, who was later sent off by referee Jon Moss for a foul on Young"

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/14/manchester-united-crystal-palace-premier-league "Young was also involved when Moss did point to the penalty spot and, this time, he probably deserves the benefit of the doubt."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/manchester-united-2-0-crystal-palace-2204757 "dismissed for bringing down Ashley Young"

http://www.aljazeera.com/sport/football/2013/09/2013914192750550596.html "Kagisho Dikgacoi was sent off for fouling Ashley Young"

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/15/marouane-fellaini-wayne-rooney-manchester-united "he was fouled by Kagisho Dikgacoi and pointed to the spot. While the contact "looked to have begun outside the area"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...r-United-2-Crystal-Palace-0-match-report.html "some doubt over whether the offence had taken place inside the penalty box."

Reuters: "Manchester United's Ashley Young is fouled by Crystal Palace's Kagisho Dikgacoi"

Plenty of links there, so hardly "near impossible", while of the three links you provided, the Times article is behind a paywall, the Daily Mail article actually refers to the earlier incident, and the Daily Star article confirms that contact was made with Young.

 

[balne-wonderer]

I can also add that in France I have been able to buy a day old copy of the Telegraph and Jonathan Liew also slates Young for the dive and goes on to say he's done it many times

His headline on page 20 in the top right is "Moyes grateful for a familiar gift" seems even the most neutral of sports reporting have made reference to these decisions being all too common at Old Trafford