Football

[SS4]

Oh how I'd like to see Alan Green try to manage England. He seems very good at critiscing the imcumbent

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Andre Villas Boas has some nerve, doesn't he know that no mere mortal has the right to drop Brad Friedel? Disgraceful. AVB out.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think that the marking by the Newcastle United defence for the first two goals that were conceded in the first quarter of an hour of the match was very poor indeed, with the result that Newcastle United had a very big problem to fight their way back into the match after that. You just don't give other teams a two-goal start in the Premiership these days.

I note that comment was passed by the MOTD panel that Robin van Persie seems to be continuing his personal vendetta against Newcastle United, which was evident in the days when he played against them for Arsenal. Did not the linesman nor the referee spot what happened when the two players were making their way towards the Newcastle goal area ?
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Scunthorpe United pitch last winter was a disgrace. It was basically sand .....

What an opportunity you missed...it could have been used for the beach volleyball in the Olympic Games.

Mind you, I don't know how the sight of nubile wenches in tiny bikinis would have gone down at Glanford Park....

 

[Ferret]

I see Pardew has requested a ban for Van Persie via the media. I've not seen it, so can't really comment, but I trust that there'll be no pro-Salford Scum bias at the FA when dealing with it - if he has elbowed the Newcastle player then a straight 3 match ban, end of.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Can I possibly moan about some of the awful decisions that went in Man Utd's favour this weekend given the penalty Leeds were awarded against Barnsley on Saturday?

All i'll say is that we were due one but bad luck on Barnsley, shocking decision but great penalty by Becchio. 1-0 Leeds, thank you very much.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I see Pardew has requested a ban for Van Persie via the media. I've not seen it, so can't really comment, but I trust that there'll be no pro-Salford Scum bias at the FA when dealing with it - if he has elbowed the Newcastle player then a straight 3 match ban, end of.

Since it seems to be the currently-held view on this forum that all the best "divers" are welcomed with open arms at the Manchester United (ballet and gymnastics) club, will we now be seeing both Luis Suarez and Gareth Bale being actively marked down for acquisition by that club during the winter-break transfer market, after their superb auditions of simulation this weekend...

With regard to your quote, shall I make Salford Council aware that they are missing out on some lucrative business rates monies for their coffers, which currently go to Trafford ...:roll:

 

[Ferret]

The FA could sort that in 5 seconds flat if they dished out 3 match bans retrospectively for diving.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can I possibly moan about some of the awful decisions that went in Man Utd's favour this weekend given the penalty Leeds were awarded against Barnsley on Saturday?

You are indeed a zen master in the field of "fault association" when it comes to bringing a "certain team" into comparative association with the "gods on Earth" who reside at Elland Road and I bow before your creative skills in this matter.

The only "blame associations" that I usually currently find to attach to Manchester United are:-
The current bad weather this summer
The financial crisis the country finds itself in
The introduction of Pacers
Lancashire County cricket club being relegated
The poor form of the England cricket team in the T20 World Cup
Hugo Chavez being re-elected as President of Venezuela

 

[balne-wonderer]

Leeds are far from gods on earth. We was very lucky against Barnsley in many ways. The ref helped with the penalty but Barnsley's strikers had an off day, we look tired so get to 3 points was great.

 

[SS4]

I see Pardew has requested a ban for Van Persie via the media. I've not seen it, so can't really comment, but I trust that there'll be no pro-Salford Scum bias at the FA when dealing with it - if he has elbowed the Newcastle player then a straight 3 match ban, end of.

I never saw it either so can't comment although in situations like this I consider what the punishment would be if it were either the other way around (RVP got decked) or if the offence in question were committed by a player from a perceived "dirty" club like Stoke, Wolves (especially last season) or, to drop down a division, Leeds or Millwall.
Either way let's have video so we can prove once and for all whether or not a certain Manchester club playing in red get better treatment than everyone else.

The FA could sort that in 5 seconds flat if they dished out 3 match bans retrospectively for diving.

Definitely, there are too many incentives for a player to dive compared to disincentives. I'd also class deliberately going over someone's trailing leg as ol' Cashley likes to do as a dive or simply enforce the unsporting conduct is definitely is.

Here's something I posted on reddit regarding diving

Diving is prevalent because the risk/reward scale is hugely skewed towards the reward end, especially in the opponents penalty area.

Risk:

• Potential yellow card
• Loss of possession via free kick for the opposition
• Loss of chance

Even those top two are rarely given out, more often than not the ref will simply allow play to continue without punishing the diver.

Reward:

• Penalty or Free kick
• Red card for defender
• Yellow card for defender

Retroactive punishment is more than welcome but action needs to taken upon the pitch. Getting a red card rescinded doesn't alter the match result nor alter the fact you have to play with ten (or fewer) men for the remainder of the game.

• All potential and actual penalties should be subject to mandatory video referee checks.
• Anyone found to be diving or found spuriously claiming (where they claim for dive and it obviously isn't or vice versa) should be given a straight red card
• Dissent by anyone but the captain is a straight red, for the captain a yellow as per the status quo
• Teams who have players sent off for diving (or retroactively banned) get deducted three points for every five players sent off in this manner.

Giving a straight red for diving may seem harsh but when you consider that there is a very real risk of the defender getting sent off it's fair IMO.

This may seem Draconian but IMO diving is the biggest blight on the beautiful game worldwide - it makes defenders fearful to tackle (by extension making the game virtually non-contact), it breaks up the flow of play, it gets players sent off and gives the message that cheating is fine and the ends justify the means.

 

[Ivo]

Strict, but fair. You are absolutely right that a deliberate act which unfairly causes a red card to be handed out should itself be worthy of a red.

I do however think that three points for every five may be a touch harsh; perhaps one point for three would be more reasonable, with increment punishments for repeat offenders (e.g. one point after three, another two after six, another three after nine, and so on).

 

[Donny Dave]

I never saw it either so can't comment although in situations like this I consider what the punishment would be if it were either the other way around (RVP got decked) or if the offence in question were committed by a player from a perceived "dirty" club like Stoke, Wolves (especially last season) or, to drop down a division, Leeds or Millwall.
Either way let's have video so we can prove once and for all whether or not a certain Manchester club playing in red get better treatment than everyone else.

I'm going to ignore the 2 obvious cases of diving from the weekend and concentrate and RVP and Robert Huth.

Firstly, RVP should be charged with violent conduct, as he deliberately threw his arm out. How the ref missed that I do not know as he was only a few yards away.

Secondly, Robert Huth should also be charged with violent conduct for his off the ball altercation with Suarez. Not only did he push him to the ground, he then trod on his chest, leaving a couple of visible stud marks.

I don't condone diving or simulation, but when a player doesn't get a decision his way when he is fouled/assaulted because he is percieved as a "diver", not only do the laws of the game need to be looked at, but match officials need to be re-assessed to see if they are fit to continue at that level of refereeing.

 

[EM2]

What annoys me is that the assumption that if a player goes to ground, it is either a foul or simulation.
I've seen a number of situations where a player has simply slipped, or fallen, not appealed or even looked towards an official, and then get cautioned. I have even seen a case where the player slipped, immediately got up, and chase back only for the whistle to blown and then to receive a card!

 

[Ivo]

What annoys me is that the assumption that if a player goes to ground, it is either a foul or simulation.
I've seen a number of situations where a player has simply slipped, or fallen, not appealed or even looked towards an official, and then get cautioned. I have even seen a case where the player slipped, immediately got up, and chase back only for the whistle to blown and then to receive a card!

For situations such as these we need to implement the Spanish system of being able to rescind yellows.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've seen a number of situations where a player has simply slipped, or fallen, not appealed or even looked towards an official, and then get cautioned.

I suppose the position on the field where this occurs can have some bearing upon the mind of the referee. The half-way circle is somewhat a different proposition than within (or on the edge of) a penalty box/ goal area.

 

[richw]

I see Pardew has requested a ban for Van Persie via the media. I've not seen it, so can't really comment, but I trust that there'll be no pro-Salford Scum bias at the FA when dealing with it - if he has elbowed the Newcastle player then a straight 3 match ban, end of.

The FA cant do nothing, because Howard Webb has to review the incident first and say whether he would have disciplined if he seen it, and howard "united" webb has said he wouldnt of disciplined if he seen it!
The FA rules state they cant punish retrospectively if the ref says he wouldnt of disciplined had he seen it.

 

[Donny Dave]

Also on the BBC website ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19875527 - Robert Huth will not be charged. :roll:

So, not only does diving get rewarded, your safe from action if you conduct an act of violence ....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The FA cant do nothing, because Howard Webb has to review the incident first and say whether he would have disciplined if he seen it, and howard "united" webb has said he wouldnt of disciplined if he seen it!
The FA rules state they cant punish retrospectively if the ref says he wouldnt of disciplined had he seen it.

Was it not reported tonight that the video evidence of the Robin van Persie incident had been seen and deemed not to be worthy of any further action....I missed most of the news clip that mentioned this.
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Is anyone surprised that Ashley Cole's stupidity in publically boasting of what he had done wrongly during the John Terry hearing has now led to the FA charging him with misconduct ?

 

[Butts]

When you see the way the FA carry on I can't help but think there may be some substance to Ashley Coles tweet about "bunch of ****s"

They are that progressive they make "The Amish" look positively reactionary

 

[Oswyntail]

"Diving" is not as straightforward as some make out. A player who relies on speed and lightness of foot is much, much more likely to fall over under the slightest influence (even the need to make a sudden change of direction to avoid a tackle) than one who is more of a slow, plodder. In the English game, fast, skillful players are also looked on with suspicion, as tradition favours the massive centre forward and his ilk; the fast, skillful players therefore have tended to be foreign. So you get the myth of the foreign "diver". Yes, there are some players who dive, but the only ones you can be certain about are those who fall over from a standing position when no one else is near. There is absolutely no evidence available from TV in cases other than these. What seems to be becoming more common is the number of slow plodders who think that, if the fleet-footed can fall over, so can they.
[Try it. Stand still and ask a friend to push you over. Very hard. Now run as fast as you can, and ask him to do the same - Simple!]

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

"Diving" is not as straightforward as some make out. A player who relies on speed and lightness of foot is much, much more likely to fall over under the slightest influence (even the need to make a sudden change of direction to avoid a tackle) than one who is more of a slow, plodder.

That being the case, it was the aftermath of what Luis Suarez did which was so outrageous, as having recovered his balance and stood up and from then being in a stationary position, performed what can only be described as a "belly-flop" with no one from the opposing team next to him.

 

[Oswyntail]

That being the case, it was the aftermath of what Luis Suarez did which was so outrageous, as having recovered his balance and stood up and from then being in a stationary position, performed what can only be described as a "belly-flop" with no one from the opposing team next to him.

As you know, I do not watch the game, and can only comment on theory

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When you see the way the FA carry on I can't help but think there may be some substance to Ashley Coles tweet about "bunch of ****s"

David Bernstein, the former chairman of Manchester City and now the current supremo at the Football Association appeared on television this morning to say that he had spoken to Ashley Cole who is said to have expressed remorse. However, as the FA inquiry on this sorry affair has not yet been held, there was no way whatsoever that David Bernstein should have publically made a statement to say that Ashley Cole was free to play for England even though it was in the hands of the England team manager whether he was chosen to play. Ashley Cole should have been made an example of in this affair, especially with regard to his admission of lying and his derogatory reference to the Football Association and remained out of contention to represent the English national team whilst matters were still to be resolved.

Can I draw a comparison to the cricketing affair that concerned the embargo on selection to Kevin Pietersen and the backbone shown by the national body during the period where matters remained unresolved where Pietersen was totally ignored for selection within that time-frame.

One of the three platforms that David Bernstein chose to base his candidature for the top post at the Football Association was that respect would be afforded a far higher profile in English football than had been the case previously, so his lack of backbone in this matter shows that the old saying ending in "feet of clay" still has much to recommend itself these days.

 

[JoeH]

With all the talk about the Van Persie 'elbow', which didn't even look like much of an elbow on any of the footage I have seen I found it strange that another incident in the same match had been totally ignored.

But clearly a number of posters here have convinced themselves that there is a conspiracy in favour of United.

 

[SS4]

Also on the BBC website ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19875527 - Robert Huth will not be charged. :roll:

So, not only does diving get rewarded, your safe from action if you conduct an act of violence ....

Huth got a booking for it and the rules say you cannot be retrospectively banned. Liverpool are favoured by the punditry almost as much as Manchester clubs and the press will always pick the worst angle to improve sales so I'm taking said picture with the salt of the Dead Sea

 

[Oswyntail]

... I found it strange that another incident in the same match had been totally ignored.

....

And that shows precisely why TV "evidence" is usually worthless. Because of the angle, I could not tell whether the offending foot is about to crunch the innocent leg or is, in fact, about a foot away from it; did the innocent leg stay there to be crunched, or move away. Critically, in the light of the way some of the rules are written, was the owner of the offending foot "intending" to crunch, or was he carried into that position by momentum. I am sure that 100 different TV angles would show - 101 different interpretations.
The only solution to this, diving, shirt-tugging etc is for the referee to be firm, consistent and actually to apply the rules (OK, so that is impossible where "intent" is involved, but, apart from the solitary case of Roy Keane, no one is going to admit to having illegal intent and without that vital piece of evidence all charges come to nothing). So yes, half a dozen players booked for shirt tugging in the first goalmouth incident, followed by a similar number for dissent, resulting in enough sendings-off for the offending side that the match is abandoned and awarded to the opposition. Surprising how quickly players would learn what they are allowed to do.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If there was ever a league table based upon the number of circulating conspiracy theories concerning English Premiership clubs, I wonder who would be the clear leader at the top of this league ?

In response to that query today on posting # 5874 about conspiracy theories, my quote above made last month "rather tongue-in-cheek" rings a bell somewhere...

 

[JoeH]

And that shows precisely why TV "evidence" is usually worthless. Because of the angle, I could not tell whether the offending foot is about to crunch the innocent leg or is, in fact, about a foot away from it; did the innocent leg stay there to be crunched, or move away. Critically, in the light of the way some of the rules are written, was the owner of the offending foot "intending" to crunch, or was he carried into that position by momentum. I am sure that 100 different TV angles would show - 101 different interpretations.

The still image is not clear but the video was and it did look like it was very much intentional.

 

[familyguy99]

Here is FA Cup fourth qualifying round draw which took place yesterday.

Alfreton Town v Gateshead

Hyde v Harrogate Town

FC United Of Manchester v Hereford United

Barrow v Tamworth

Colwyn Bay or Guiseley v Hednesford Town or Buxton

Grimsby Town v Kidderminster Harriers

Bradford Park Avenue v Hinckley United or Ossett Albion

Wrexham v Southport

AFC Fylde v Ilkeston

Boston United v Altrincham

Lincoln City v Chester or FC Halifax Town

Macclesfield Town v Marine

Barwell or Workington v Mansfield Town

Stockport County v Stalybridge Celtic

AFC Telford United v Nuneaton Town

South Park v Dereham Town or Metropolitan Police

Didcot Town v Arlesey Town

Forest Green Rovers v Dartford

Yate Town v Newport County

Slough Town v Bath City or Gosport Borough

Hastings United or Hitchin Town v Blackfield & Langley

Bromley v Weston Super Mare or Worcester City

Chelmsford City v East Thurrock United

Hayes & Yeading United v Boreham Wood

AFC Totton v Cambridge City or Billericay Town

Welling United or Thurrock v Chalfont St Peter or Bishop's Stortford

Braintree Town v Lowestoft Town

Dorchester Town v Bury Town

Cambridge United v Luton Town

Gloucester City v Chippenham Town

Histon or Corby Town v Eastbourne Borough or Hendon

Woking v Ebbsfleet United

All this game will take place on 20th or 21st October and on 21st October the FA Cup first round will take place with all League One and Two teams in the hat.

 

[CC 72100]

With all the talk about the Van Persie 'elbow', which didn't even look like much of an elbow on any of the footage I have seen I found it strange that another incident in the same match had been totally ignored.

But clearly a number of posters here have convinced themselves that there is a conspiracy in favour of United.

Thank you for someone bringing this up. Just to re-adress the balance and all, to prove that this big United conspiracy theory isn't such. This incident seemed to have been ignored. Two wrongs don't make a right, but whilst Van Persie shouldn't have done what he did, but nor had Tiote. If the ref had seen this, he'd have probably been carded, to add to the yellow he got later in the match.