First West Coast New Stock

[route:oxford]

Just to add to this, over the way it posted that when First Group drew up their bid they had two different proposals for the 6 car EMU's. Obviously they would have to already have a pretty good idea of what they were going with as the costings are part of the franchise!

Anyway it was intially said one offer was the Baby Pendolino from Alstom that every one is already aware of, and that the second spec was NOT from Bombardier. (So that rules out any EMU Voyager type unit).

Earlier today it was then clarified that the 2nd comapny was neither Bombardier NOR Hitachi. (So that rules out any tilting 395 type units nor any IEP derivative)

Then finally when it was pointed out that leaves Siemens or CAF as the biggest players left (obviously there are left-field choices like CSRE) it was said that it was NOT Siemens.

So it's likely between Alstom and a company that is not Bombardier, Hitachi or Siemens.

Stadler Rail?

Eleven 6 car units would be there kind of thing.

 

[150001]

If the Flirt could be done in a UK gauge with 125 mph capability, then Stadler would be a wise option. http://trainoftheweek.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/stadler-flirt.html (125 mph can be done!)

 

[bronzeonion]

God no! Look at that horrendous design

 

[MCR247]

Can they tilt though?

 

[starrymarkb]

Not as far as I'm aware. Plus it's more of an Electric Sprinter. Stadler stuff isn't known for being pretty but has a good reputation for build quality at a lower price then the bigger manufacturers.

Now I'm seriously hoping First didn't talk to Alsando Breda. If they are the other manufacturer then don't expect to see the trains in service before 2020 (at best )

 

[Goldfish62]

Wonder when they will find the time for the existing 390 refurbs. First VP basically confirmed tonight their doing a complete seating replacement, taking out the existing seating and putting in higher density seating with less leg room and more luggage space. Also looks like shops are going to be replaced by a trolley service 'at seat catering'.

Oh great - so make them even more uncomfortable and substantially downgrade the catering offer.

 

[jon0844]

Thanks. If Bombardier weren't out of the running then the Swedish bombardier X50 Regina units would be perfect! http://bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/projects/details?docID=0901260d80010180# The SJ versions are 125 mph running and are on a UK gauge; they're very much like the Aventra actually.

One of these? (photographed earlier today as I'm in Sweden). They're huge and far too wide to fit in the UK I'm sure.

 

[150001]

Those are the ones. They are way too wide, found the measurements! But if a narrower 2.82m version could be produced (150 width) then it would be a very good train; they've done excellent service in Sweden.

 

[MCR247]

God no! Look at that horrendous design

The FLIRTs that are found in Switzerland and Germany look great!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If the Flirt could be done in a UK gauge with 125 mph capability, then Stadler would be a wise option. http://trainoftheweek.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/stadler-flirt.html (125 mph can be done!)

It's articulated. (So is the CAF Oaris).
NR won't like that.

 

[Blindtraveler]

what concerns me is
another
long distance route going from a shop with hot meals and snacks to a regional railways style at seat offering. I know we need seats but Im sorry the train loses any advantage over easyjet when the drinks arnt cold, theres only 1 kind of sandwitch and no hot food etc.
If this happens it will be a downgrade!

 

[150001]

Well the Desiro City trains are articulated, so are the Class 378s!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well the Desiro City trains are articulated, so are the Class 378s!

Are you sure?
The Alstom bid for Thameslink was withdrawn because they were articulated.
By articulated I mean shared bogies like Eurostar, not just "wide gangways".

 

[150001]

OK, I get you now; how come NR doesn't like them then?

 

[Nym]

Higher axle loads per axle than traditional bogied stock, NR tends to live by axle load rather than train weight...

 

[northwichcat]

One train per day will be extended from Preston to Blackpool from Dec 2013 (Voyager) this will become five electric trains per day from Dec 2016 (didnt say whether in 2016 they would be via mainline or from Bolton but Bolton makes most sense). I would bet on a mini pendo occasionally strengthened to a 9 car Pendolino, 11 car Pendolino would be too long for Man Pic through platforms.

The First Group press release does say the new 6 car EMUs are being ordered for Birmingham-Scotland to release the Voyagers on to new services like Shrewsbury to London and additional Bangor to London services.

11 car Pendolinos are also too long for Wilmslow so Manchester-Crewe-London will need to be remain as 9 car unless a platform lengthening program takes place or SDO is used, either of which could also be used as a solution for Piccadilly platforms 13/14.

 

[bnsf734]

Well the Desiro City trains are articulated, so are the Class 378s!

The Class 378 are NOT articulated, they do have full width gangways but each coach has 2 bogies.

Siemens do offer an articulated Desiro city but the Thameslink stock will be conventional.

The only UK articulated trains I can think of are the Class 373 Eurostar sets.

 

[Nym]

This or any tram style units that are kicking around on NR metals..

 

[HSTEd]

Could those full width Capitalstar gangways be used on Turbostars or would they obstruct the exhaust pipes? Of course that would not be trouble on purely two car units because you could just put the exhausts on the front on the non driver side of the (normal width unit-end) gangway.

They should be used on every multiple unit that they can be fitted to IMO.

 

[starrymarkb]

Could those full width Capitalstar gangways be used on Turbostars or would they obstruct the exhaust pipes? Of course that would not be trouble on purely two car units because you could just put the exhausts on the front on the non driver side of the (normal width unit-end) gangway.

They should be used on every multiple unit that they can be fitted to IMO.

Or route up through the body