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First Rotherham to close
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THarris123
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Are you absolutely sure of this? Haven't they been updating the fleet lately with new stock of all sorts?
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THarris123
Established Member
Blimey.
They continue to want to cut out depots. Does make you wonder what will be left, if anything, of First bus in 2020.
First are really desperate to expand.
Take the now dead route 22 from Barnsley to Rotherham for example.
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New buses are generally brought into a poorly performing area to try and encourage more people to use the bus. This isn't the case, the depot is closing with buses, routes and drivers being relocated to other depots to continue running services as before.
Robertj21a
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Do they still do repaints for First at Rotherham ?
Isn't that where the 'commercial unit' is, they've been doing a lot of work for the Eastern Counties depot and have a fleet of B10 paint floats?
THarris123
Established Member
So maybe not as bad as first thought, but still it does show that First really aren't looking into expanding much at the moment.
I think the only expansion I've seen in First is in Kernow, BoS and Bristol (584/595 tender won, 99 gained and Webberbus gone and Bristol P&R won).
I think the only expansion I've seen in First is in Kernow, BoS and Bristol (584/595 tender won, 99 gained and Webberbus gone and Bristol P&R won).
overthewater
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So there just moved the fleet into another depot? There not cutting any jobs? whats the problem? Mind you I wonder how much there will get when there sell off the land.
Robertj21a
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Is it owned by First ?
It is, I believe that responsibility will be passing over to Bramley in Leeds.
Think the depot is leased? There's been rumours of this been flying around every year now for the past few years, and it's been around this time every year.
WatcherZero
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Says drivers will be relocated but they are cutting the depot engineering staff.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Olive Grove?
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I don't know if Midland Road is owned or leased. However, IIRC, it's not exactly the most desirable of areas.
I would suggest that the issue is that the depot was built for 150-200 vehicles and is one of those massive 1970s PTE depots with everything under cover. The business rates and utility costs are probably fairly chunky for a depot that's essentially about half full (which is why they can accommodate the refurb operations).
The questions that I don't know is how much room there is at Olive Grove (especially) and Donny to absorb operations though they've obviously done their sums. To be honest, I am a little surprised that they haven't found a lower cost facility in Rotherham (perhaps they've looked but there's nothing available).
The concern is usually that once you start interworking operations etc away from base, then reliability is challenged. That said, you can't have a depot in every town (and remember that Stagecoach Yorkshire have closed a number of their depots in the last few years).
smtglasgow
Member
Sad news especially for the support staff losing their jobs. Presumably First have done their sums, but that looks like a lot of dead mileage. Keeping Rotherham drivers on Rotherham routes echoes what First Glasgow did with keeping a Parkhead unit in Caledonia, but here the distances were much smaller Parkhead was only 3 miles away from Cally with a good motorway network for getting buses into service. I guess this just proves again how desperate things are outside the South East. Town Centres just arent the draw they were and much of the North (and Scotland) is struggling economically fewer passengers all round and thats before we get the full horror of Brexit. All the big groups are rationalising, but this leaves a bit of a hole in First SY.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Recent changes to Rotherham services:
The X78 cut back from every ten minutes to every fifteen minutes (used to be operated by Doncaster and Sheffield, so could go back to such operation in future)
The linking of the 10 (Rotherham) and 16 (Doncaster) to make a route that either depot could operate
The X1, replacing the 1/2/69, meaning a through service from Sheffield to Maltby (i.e. could be operated from Sheffield)
Half of the 71 linked to short journeys on the 35 (becoming the 70), i.e. linking another "Rotherham" route to a "non Rotherham" route.
So, if all of those can be operated from the Sheffield or Doncaster ends then there's not a lot left wholly within Rotherham.
The 22 (every ten minutes from Rotherham to Barnsley) has been cut back and cut back to become two half hourly circulars that only go as far as Wath (PVR probably about a third of the initial 22)
There's only a handful of Rotherham "town services" left (i.e. routes that aren't running through to Sheffield/ Doncaster) - and they never seem particularly busy. Expect to see further cutbacks to them because it's easier to cut the PVR than to order new buses each year.
Cutbacks in Sheffield (as part of the "Partnership" with Stagecoach have left a lot of spare capacity at Olive Grove depot - once you take out the redundant stock sat up at the back that is beyond economic repair then you'll probably have space for a lot of "Rotherham" buses to live.
All a change from a few years ago when lack of drivers (and lower wages?) meant a number of "Sheffield" routes were taken on by Rotherham (the 30 from Crystal Peaks to Dore, the 77 to High Green, the 17 to every lamppost in northern Sheffield) or replaced by extended Rotherham services (the 66 being extended into Sheffield to replace existing Chapletown - Sheffield services). Now the boot is on the other foot.
I get the impression that the commercial side was the one thing keeping Midland Road going - most of the "town services" have been cut and cut over the years (in line with the decline of Rotherham town centre).
If that can be done in Bramley then I can see the profitability of the remaining Midland Road operations being questioned - especially with so much of the PVR being on services that could be run from the Sheffield/ Doncaster ends.
Agreed.
Rotherham suffers from having two large shopping centres close by - the covered mall of Meadowhall and the retail park of Parkgate. There's a small Primark left in the town centre, but most other "High Street" businesses have moved out (M&S etc) or never opened there (Sports Direct etc), which leaves central Rotherham full of non-essential shops (B&M, phone shops, gambling arcades, tanning salons). I'd struggle to justify paying a couple of quid single to visit.
Plus it also has the problems of parking (huge multi-storey above the bus station) and the town centre being within reasonable walking distance for many able bodied people, which makes the bus travel less attractive (other than for pensioners with free passes, but as we know, even a standing load of pensioners may not equate to a profitable bus service)
The X78 cut back from every ten minutes to every fifteen minutes (used to be operated by Doncaster and Sheffield, so could go back to such operation in future)
The linking of the 10 (Rotherham) and 16 (Doncaster) to make a route that either depot could operate
The X1, replacing the 1/2/69, meaning a through service from Sheffield to Maltby (i.e. could be operated from Sheffield)
Half of the 71 linked to short journeys on the 35 (becoming the 70), i.e. linking another "Rotherham" route to a "non Rotherham" route.
So, if all of those can be operated from the Sheffield or Doncaster ends then there's not a lot left wholly within Rotherham.
The 22 (every ten minutes from Rotherham to Barnsley) has been cut back and cut back to become two half hourly circulars that only go as far as Wath (PVR probably about a third of the initial 22)
There's only a handful of Rotherham "town services" left (i.e. routes that aren't running through to Sheffield/ Doncaster) - and they never seem particularly busy. Expect to see further cutbacks to them because it's easier to cut the PVR than to order new buses each year.
Cutbacks in Sheffield (as part of the "Partnership" with Stagecoach have left a lot of spare capacity at Olive Grove depot - once you take out the redundant stock sat up at the back that is beyond economic repair then you'll probably have space for a lot of "Rotherham" buses to live.
All a change from a few years ago when lack of drivers (and lower wages?) meant a number of "Sheffield" routes were taken on by Rotherham (the 30 from Crystal Peaks to Dore, the 77 to High Green, the 17 to every lamppost in northern Sheffield) or replaced by extended Rotherham services (the 66 being extended into Sheffield to replace existing Chapletown - Sheffield services). Now the boot is on the other foot.
I get the impression that the commercial side was the one thing keeping Midland Road going - most of the "town services" have been cut and cut over the years (in line with the decline of Rotherham town centre).
If that can be done in Bramley then I can see the profitability of the remaining Midland Road operations being questioned - especially with so much of the PVR being on services that could be run from the Sheffield/ Doncaster ends.
Agreed.
Rotherham suffers from having two large shopping centres close by - the covered mall of Meadowhall and the retail park of Parkgate. There's a small Primark left in the town centre, but most other "High Street" businesses have moved out (M&S etc) or never opened there (Sports Direct etc), which leaves central Rotherham full of non-essential shops (B&M, phone shops, gambling arcades, tanning salons). I'd struggle to justify paying a couple of quid single to visit.
Plus it also has the problems of parking (huge multi-storey above the bus station) and the town centre being within reasonable walking distance for many able bodied people, which makes the bus travel less attractive (other than for pensioners with free passes, but as we know, even a standing load of pensioners may not equate to a profitable bus service)
Olive Grove can easily hold approx 350 buses, and currently runs with 232 buses. Plenty of space, and Doncaster isn't lacking in the space either - remember it used to run the X78 before it went to Rotherham, and nothing replaced the X78 there.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
In which case, you can understand why've they proposed closure. Thanks for confirming - been some time since I went to OG and it was fairly full after Halfway closed but the partnership will have created a peace dividend
theblackwatch
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Does Olive Grove have the capacity for another 73 vehicles? It sounds a lot!
Olive Grove has the capacity for 350 vehicles, so room for 73 more plus half of Doncaster's fleet
...plus half of Doncaster's fleet
The newer half of course!
Assuming the 7 buses moving to Doncaster will be for the X78?
Probably best as the chances of buses/drivers getting in and out for service during race meetings, then making it across to Rotherham in time would be slim.
Does anyone have a link to/copy of the proposals?
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Blackpudding
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Thanks! I didn't think to look on their website as I assumed it would still be internal discussion.
Blackpudding
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No probs and for what it's worth although everyone talks about a fleet of 80 vehicles at Rotherham I think it's about 90.
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