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First Group: General Discussion

G760XRE

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Walking past First Potteries depot this morning I noted ex Berkshire 69926 BV13ZCT. According to bustimes.org this was withdrawn over 2 years ago, but has only recently appeared at Potteries depot. Any idea why this is here
 
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RailUK Forums

Man of Kent

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Walking past First Potteries depot this morning I noted ex Berkshire 69926 BV13ZCT. According to bustimes.org this was withdrawn over 2 years ago, but has only recently appeared at Potteries depot. Any idea why this is here
Possibly one of the buses that First has sent to Reaseheath College at Nantwich? I understand they send engineering apprentices there from all over the country, and supply the college with vehicles for practical training purposes.
 

JD2168

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Something I have wondered:
If the repowering of buses from diesel to electric had started a few years earlier would the later B9TL Gemini’s & B7RLE Eclipse’s on 11/12/13/63 plates have been considered for this alongside the StreetDeck’s as seen at the moment?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Something I have wondered:
If the repowering of buses from diesel to electric had started a few years earlier would the later B9TL Gemini’s & B7RLE Eclipse’s on 11/12/13/63 plates have been considered for this alongside the StreetDeck’s as seen at the moment?
Well... perhaps it's a technical challenge?

There have been a number of e400Hs that were re-engined by East Yorkshire and First West of England to Euro VI diesel. However, I'm not aware that there have been any e400/e400mmc or B5LHs that have converted to electric AFAIK. Instead, it's been Streetdecks of that age.

As regards single decks, the economics are different. They have a shorter life as it is and whilst I know that Diamond retrofitted a couple of MANs, there's the problems of where to place batteries etc.
 

Fletcj10

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Am i right in thinking that the only types of bus not in ultraviolet are...

(Optare Solo SR & Scania N250UD & N28OUD City/MMC?)

Excluding coaches & franchise/partner brands nothing else comes to mind?
 

Murray J

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And the 2 short 200ev’s (48901/2) at Glasgow. D8UR’s
Also the Mercedes Citaro, as Kernow has a small fleet of those for the Truro Park & Ride, albeit not for much longer with electrics arriving fairly soon to replace them. London probably also has quite a few vehicle types not represented in the main First fleet (e.g. the B5LH MCV EvoSeti) so they won't be in ultraviolet either. Not sure if York Pullman and Ensignbus count as they're not branded as First but both have vehicles not in Ultraviolet in the main fleet.

And this is more of a technicality but I don't think a short E200MMC is in ultraviolet yet either.
 

voidwxrranty

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Also the Mercedes Citaro, as Kernow has a small fleet of those for the Truro Park & Ride, albeit not for much longer with electrics arriving fairly soon to replace them. London probably also has quite a few vehicle types not represented in the main First fleet (e.g. the B5LH MCV EvoSeti) so they won't be in ultraviolet either. Not sure if York Pullman and Ensignbus count as they're not branded as First but both have vehicles not in Ultraviolet in the main fleet.

And this is more of a technicality but I don't think a short E200MMC is in ultraviolet yet either.
Glasgow have a few 10.8m MMC’s in UV, i don’t know if there’s any shorter ones in it though
 

Fletcj10

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Optare Solo (original) and Mercedes Sprinter with First Kernow?
I missed the Solo as due to age it wouldn't be painted, the Sprinters yeah i guess but id thought they want to keep the Mousehole branding

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And the 2 short 200ev’s (48901/2) at Glasgow. D8UR’s
Wouldn't these be part of the contact stating they would have to be painted for SP Energy?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Also the Mercedes Citaro, as Kernow has a small fleet of those for the Truro Park & Ride, albeit not for much longer with electrics arriving fairly soon to replace them. London probably also has quite a few vehicle types not represented in the main First fleet (e.g. the B5LH MCV EvoSeti) so they won't be in ultraviolet either. Not sure if York Pullman and Ensignbus count as they're not branded as First but both have vehicles not in Ultraviolet in the main fleet.

And this is more of a technicality but I don't think a short E200MMC is in ultraviolet yet either.
I also left the citaro's out as there due for replacement, it was more directed to "First" buses not its different companies i.e ensign & London
 

stevieinselby

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Am i right in thinking that the only types of bus not in ultraviolet are...

(Optare Solo SR & Scania N250UD & N28OUD City/MMC?)

Excluding coaches & franchise/partner brands nothing else comes to mind?
If the lists on bustimes are anywhere close to accurate, there are hundreds of buses of all different types, ages and locations in Olympia, variant Olympia and any number with route or region branding.
 

Fletcj10

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If the lists on bustimes are anywhere close to accurate, there are hundreds of buses of all different types, ages and locations in Olympia, variant Olympia and any number with route or region branding.
This is true, however the buses i listed are the only ones with not a single ultraviolet livery, all other "First" buses have at least one type of bus in the livery, other vehicles listed on bus times are either not "First" branded i.e ensign, franchise/partnerships i.e bee network or Leicester, painted for a contact i.e Truro P&R or they are coaches.
 

stevieinselby

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This is true, however the buses i listed are the only ones with not a single ultraviolet livery, all other "First" buses have at least one type of bus in the livery, other vehicles listed on bus times are either not "First" branded i.e ensign, franchise/partnerships i.e bee network or Leicester, painted for a contact i.e Truro P&R or they are coaches.
Ah, I misunderstood, hadn't realised you were only looking for those where they were only in non-Ultraviolet.
 

Rutland Road

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Ah, I misunderstood, hadn't realised you were only looking for those where they were only in non-Ultraviolet.
The last surviving operational E300 in Somerset 67705 remains in Quantock Line brown & cream. Earmarked for early disposal once the nine overdue WrightBus GB Kite Electroliners are delivered.

They have been delayed awaiting Type Approval. Not sure if the Cornish P&R delivery were delayed for the same reason. Both batches imminent it seems.
 

Fletcj10

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The last surviving operational E300 in Somerset 67705 remains in Quantock Line brown & cream. Earmarked for early disposal once the nine overdue WrightBus GB Kite Electroliners are delivered.

They have been delayed awaiting Type Approval. Not sure if the Cornish P&R delivery were delayed for the same reason. Both batches imminent it seems.
What else will the 9 Kites replace at Somerset? Except for the E300 of course, Plus I know the Citaro's are not First owned but does anyone know where these might end up? McGills comes to mind minus the 10 plate i imagine.
 

Rutland Road

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What else will the 9 Kites replace at Somerset? Except for the E300 of course, Plus I know the Citaro's are not First owned but does anyone know where these might end up? McGills comes to mind minus the 10 plate i imagine.
I'm expecting to see more of the 28/29 seat former Taunton Town E200s withdrawn, 45114 for example. The Taunton fleet currently has a surplus of double deckers so the oldest of the E400s in the 335xx series and perhaps 33420 should be going. Ex-demonstrator 30000 should arrive from Potteries refurb and repaint soon.

Anyone know fleet numbers for the nine WrightBus GB Kite Electroliners? The 28/28A Taunton to Minehead route they are intended for has a PVR of 6 so it will be intereresting to see where they turn up. First two expected at Taunton end of next week I understand.
 

aswilliamsuk

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I'm expecting to see more of the 28/29 seat former Taunton Town E200s withdrawn, 45114 for example. The Taunton fleet currently has a surplus of double deckers so the oldest of the E400s in the 335xx series and perhaps 33420 should be going. Ex-demonstrator 30000 should arrive from Potteries refurb and repaint soon.

Anyone know fleet numbers for the nine WrightBus GB Kite Electroliners? The 28/28A Taunton to Minehead route they are intended for has a PVR of 6 so it will be intereresting to see where they turn up. First two expected at Taunton end of next week I understand.
I am expecting similar - the StreetLites are going through repaint too at the moment, which appears to be edging toward a smarter fleet locally in general.

The GB Kite Electroliners are 63698-706.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I'm expecting to see more of the 28/29 seat former Taunton Town E200s withdrawn, 45114 for example. The Taunton fleet currently has a surplus of double deckers so the oldest of the E400s in the 335xx series and perhaps 33420 should be going. Ex-demonstrator 30000 should arrive from Potteries refurb and repaint soon.
Think it's fair to assume that many of the old soldiers will head off to Carlton after the new vehicles arrive. 44922, 45114, 44510 are all of an age.
 

Fletcj10

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Just a quick question, i'm trying to keep track of of the current buses first have on order or due to enter service but i'm lost, do we know what buses first bus have on order right now & also what buses are ready for service but have not yet entered due?
 

aswilliamsuk

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Just a quick question, i'm trying to keep track of of the current buses first have on order or due to enter service but i'm lost, do we know what buses first bus have on order right now & also what buses are ready for service but have not yet entered due?
Fairly simple.

The remainder of this year's order are 65140-70 (Yutong E12) and 30103-26 (Yutong U11D) for Basildon, which have just begun entering service, as well as 9 Wright GBKite EV for Taunton (63698-706) and 7 similar for Truro Park & Ride (63737-743).

Just ordered are 12 AD E200EV and 5 E100EV for Bath, with a larger order yet to be announced for Bristol - expected to be for 116 deckers, with 27 Repowers as well.

Norwich (14) and Great Yarmouth (10) have had funding announced for 24 electric deckers, but no order announced yet.

Scottish funding is due to be awarded soon (a second part of SCOTZEB2), and is expected to include First, but nothing has been confirmed yet.
 

Fletcj10

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Fairly simple.

The remainder of this year's order are 65140-70 (Yutong E12) and 30103-26 (Yutong U11D) for Basildon, which have just begun entering service, as well as 9 Wright GBKite EV for Taunton (63698-706) and 7 similar for Truro Park & Ride (63737-743).

Just ordered are 12 AD E200EV and 5 E100EV for Bath, with a larger order yet to be announced for Bristol - expected to be for 116 deckers, with 27 Repowers as well.

Norwich (14) and Great Yarmouth (10) have had funding announced for 24 electric deckers, but no order announced yet.

Scottish funding is due to be awarded soon (a second part of SCOTZEB2), and is expected to include First, but nothing has been confirmed yet.
Many Many Thanks!!
 

Tim33160

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Five Electric deckers from Leeds running on hire to First Manchester - but with Leeds drivers - for the Labour party conference in Liverpool this next week:
overnight charging at Warrington's own buses
 

Volvodart

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First Bus to grow FlixBus fleet by 11 coaches from spring 2026
Additions will take group's FlixBus fleet to 32 as it continues to grow its involvement in coach



The existing partnership between First Bus and FlixBus UK will expand from spring 2026 when the operator places a further 11 Yutong GT12 coaches into service on behalf of the travel technology company.
That will see FlixBus operations taken up by the First Bus Leicester business and existing coach operations in West Yorkshire, adding capacity to routes in the Midlands and the North of England. FlixBus provision already delivered from depots in the West of England will also grow.
Such expansion will see the First Bus coach fleet for FlixBus work grow to 32, with the 11 new vehicles sitting alongside 21 Yutong GT12 models that entered service on the initial phase earlier in 2025 under a five-year contract.
Such an uplift represents a continued diversification of the First Bus portfolio into markets other than stage carriage services, work that has seen large-scale growth of its presence in coaching through the purchase of several formerly independent businesses.
First Bus Managing Director, Business to Business, Andrew Jarvis says: “Our partnership with FlixBus is delivering strong results, so we are expanding the long-term contract to involve more of our depots across England.
“This further investment reinforces our strategic focus on growing our involvement in long-distance coach.”
FlixBus advises that its UK network will see “significant expansion” in 2026 as it continues a bid to provide the most extensive coverage in the country. FlixBus UK Senior Managing Director Andreas Schorling adds: “The demand for our modern, comfortable and affordable coach services continues to rise, and we have a fantastic relationship with First Bus.
“Together we plan to build an even stronger network and move FlixBus closer to UK market leadership, which we see as inevitable.”
Dedicated FlixBus operations teams within First Bus will continue to manage service delivery under the expanded partnership, which the travel tech firm says will create 40 jobs
 

nick291

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First Bus to grow FlixBus fleet by 11 coaches from spring 2026
Additions will take group's FlixBus fleet to 32 as it continues to grow its involvement in coach

Seems a bit bizarre to me they are opting for the Yutong GT12 again when the diesel GT14 is coming to the market and has slightly more capacity and luggage space. Then again I'm not a fleet operator so maybe they see something I don't.
 

Stan Drews

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Seems a bit bizarre to me they are opting for the Yutong GT12 again when the diesel GT14 is coming to the market and has slightly more capacity and luggage space. Then again I'm not a fleet operator so maybe they see something I don't.
I suppose its the same as buying a BMW 3 series when there is a larger 5 series available. You don't believe you need that extra capacity/space and/or you can't justify the additional cost?
The GT12 has become a popular choice for FlixBus work, so it must be ticking enough boxes.
 

SSmith2009

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Seems a bit bizarre to me they are opting for the Yutong GT12 again when the diesel GT14 is coming to the market and has slightly more capacity and luggage space. Then again I'm not a fleet operator so maybe they see something I don't.
Might be flixbus who have suggested they use this type of vehicle?
 

nick291

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I suppose its the same as buying a BMW 3 series when there is a larger 5 series available. You don't believe you need that extra capacity/space and/or you can't justify the additional cost?
The GT12 has become a popular choice for FlixBus work, so it must be ticking enough boxes.
Might be flixbus who have suggested they use this type of vehicle?
They are making it work rather well for them I must say.
 

darloscott

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Might be flixbus who have suggested they use this type of vehicle?
Likely Flixbus have an agreement with Pelican on pricing given how many operators have placed these into service in Flix spec.
I’d suggest it won’t be too long until the GT14 appears in green somewhere though…
 

Volvodart

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After the London Overground rail contract win yesterday, FirstGroup plc acquires sightseeing bus operations


  • FirstGroup acquires RATP Dev’s sightseeing operations in London and Bath
  • The operations include a freehold depot in south west London and a leased depot in Bath
  • Bath to Bristol Airport Airdecker service also part of the deal
  • Acquisition part of FirstGroup’s growth and diversification strategy and chance to “expand its footprint in two key markets”
FirstGroup plc has today completed the acquisition of RATP Dev’s sightseeing operations in London and Bath.
Currently operating under the brand Tootbus, the acquisition will strengthen FirstGroup’s presence across London and the south-west of England.
While the operations are primarily a sightseeing business, with a fleet of 63 buses - 42 in London and 21 in Bath - and about 190 employees, they also include the Airdecker service, connecting Bath to Bristol Airport.
As part of the acquisition, the company will take control of a large freehold depot in Wandsworth in south-west London alongside a leased depot in Keynsham near Bath.
The news follows FirstGroup’s purchase of RATP Dev’s London bus operations earlier this year - now operating as First Bus London - further cementing the Group’s position as one of the UK’s leading private-sector bus operators.
Entering the sightseeing market in London and Bath will further diversify FirstGroup’s business, and the additional depots will provide operational and cost efficiencies, and create opportunities for future expansion.
Graham Sutherland, FirstGroup Chief Executive Officer, said: “The acquisition of the bus operations in London and Bath, in line with our UK-focused growth and diversification strategy, will allow us to further diversify and expand our footprint in two of our key markets. The integration of the businesses will also create material operational and cost synergies and the opportunity to grow our London route portfolio over time.”
Arnaud Masson, Senior Vice President of Digital and Sightseeing, RATP Dev, said: “Tootbus is a leading player in sightseeing in London and Bath, and we are proud of our teams for their achievements in building a strong brand that delivers a unique urban sightseeing experience to thousands of visitors every year. With confidence, we are divesting this company we cherish to FirstGroup, which is well positioned to take it further.”
 

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