First Group: General Discussion

[Flange Squeal]

It appears Weymouth's (ex-Kernow) 37736 has been painted into a very similar two tone blue. The new leaflet mentions the 'Explore Dorset' brand name. The Explore word in the same green banner as the Norwich wording on the other example.

I rode 37737, SF09 LDE, on the X52 today. The blue paint on that (no branding as yet) appears to have extended to splatters and smudges on a number of open top area seats, walls, handrails and the cushioning above the partial roof.

The driver also pulled over to phone base about a perceived issue with the bus (I’m not sure what, but there did seem to be a rattling coming from the rear end in both directions). He told us he was told to carry on, with the bus then really struggling up the next hill (presumably why the driver had stopped there to contact the depot) to the point it really felt on the verge of running out of puff running at walking pace near the summit, after a very slow journey to get that far!

On the plus side though, it made it, the driver was excellent in terms of driving and customer service, and the route was gorgeous, all for £3 each way!

 

[volvob12]

I rode 37737, SF09 LDE, on the X52 today. The blue paint on that (no branding as yet) appears to have extended to splatters and smudges on a number of open top area seats, walls, handrails and the cushioning above the partial roof.

The driver also pulled over to phone base about a perceived issue with the bus (I’m not sure what, but there did seem to be a rattling coming from the rear end in both directions). He told us he was told to carry on, with the bus then really struggling up the next hill (presumably why the driver had stopped there to contact the depot) to the point it really felt on the verge of running out of puff running at walking pace near the summit, after a very slow journey to get that far!

On the plus side though, it made it, the driver was excellent in terms of driving and customer service, and the route was gorgeous, all for £3 each way!

View attachment 181270

View attachment 181271

Funny you should mention that - I’ve been looking at some of the WESTBus repaints that have also come out of the Hengrove paint shop. They don’t look great up close either, with the outlines of urban 2 and advertising vinyls showing through.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Funny you should mention that - I’ve been looking at some of the WESTBus repaints that have also come out of the Hengrove paint shop. They don’t look great up close either, with the outlines of urban 2 and advertising vinyls showing through.

Are they sprayed or brushed?

 

[Sealink]

My friends were on the 0927hrs X51 from Bridport to Weymouth (SN12 AHX) this morning at 0938hrs.
this morning which broke down at Shipton Gorge. A replacement bus arrived at 1108hrs. (SN65 ZDH)

My friends thankfully got a lift as they needed to get a train at Dorchester South.

 

[fgwrich]

I rode 37737, SF09 LDE, on the X52 today. The blue paint on that (no branding as yet) appears to have extended to splatters and smudges on a number of open top area seats, walls, handrails and the cushioning above the partial roof.

The driver also pulled over to phone base about a perceived issue with the bus (I’m not sure what, but there did seem to be a rattling coming from the rear end in both directions). He told us he was told to carry on, with the bus then really struggling up the next hill (presumably why the driver had stopped there to contact the depot) to the point it really felt on the verge of running out of puff running at walking pace near the summit, after a very slow journey to get that far!

On the plus side though, it made it, the driver was excellent in terms of driving and customer service, and the route was gorgeous, all for £3 each way!

View attachment 181270

View attachment 181271

I did wonder if this was a hasty repaint job to cover up its Sunseaker Yellow, but it does appear to be a rushed permanent paint job.

Speaking of open tops, Enviro 400 SN09CDU has been pictured in Hilsea in a partially rubbed down condition awaiting a repaint too.

On a side note, the new First “Explore” open top livery appears to be a reverse of the Bath City Blue livery.

 

[Simon75]

I did wonder if this was a hasty repaint job to cover up its Sunseaker Yellow, but it does appear to be a rushed permanent paint job.

Speaking of Volvos in Dorset;

LK59FCO
LK59CXP
LK59CXO

All appear to have been parked up at Monkey World over the weekend awaiting service, and Enviro 400 SN09CDU has been pictured in Hilsea in a partially rubbed down condition awaiting a repaint too.

On a side note, the new First “Explore” open top livery appears to be a reverse of the Bath City Blue livery.

How come they were parked up at Monkey World?

 

[F Great Eastern]

I see David Martin has stepped down as Chairman and been replaced with another person from outside the industry.

What is noticeable about the backgrounds of pretty much all the directors on the board now is that aside from the employee director nobody has any history of working in public transport. When you consider that Jeanette Bell also has come from outside the public transport industry, it surely cannot be ideal?

 

[Man of Kent]

I see David Martin has stepped down as Chairman and been replaced with another person from outside the industry.

He stepped down in September 2024, re-appearing at Arriva the following month.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see David Martin has stepped down as Chairman and been replaced with another person from outside the industry.

What is noticeable about the backgrounds of pretty much all the directors on the board now is that aside from the employee director nobody has any history of working in public transport. When you consider that Jeanette Bell also has come from outside the public transport industry, it surely cannot be ideal?

Moir Lockhead was a bus man through and through...

When you look at board members in most firms, the board will consist of people who have a specialism less grounded in the market but in the role. Hence why it's more important for the Group Sustainability Manager to be on top of all the requirements of scope emissions and corporate governance, or that the FD will be vastly experienced in knowing how the numbers work.

That's not to give a bye to the current approach of the First Bus management. The approach of re-centralising of marketing functions (and making local OpCos as delivery structures only) and the reduction of local management is the sort of McKinsey driven mantra that we see in other industries. It's also, more pertinently, that we thought First had seen the error of.

 

[Metal Mickey]

Moir Lockhead was a bus man through and through...

When you look at board members in most firms, the board will consist of people who have a specialism less grounded in the market but in the role. Hence why it's more important for the Group Sustainability Manager to be on top of all the requirements of scope emissions and corporate governance, or that the FD will be vastly experienced in knowing how the numbers work.

That's not to give a bye to the current approach of the First Bus management. The approach of re-centralising of marketing functions (and making local OpCos as delivery structures only) and the reduction of local management is the sort of McKinsey driven mantra that we see in other industries. It's also, more pertinently, that we thought First had seen the error of.

At least under Moir Lockheed, every individual business had their own Managing Director and possibly Engineering and Financial Director.

I think now, it’s one senior management team overseeing 2 or more businesses.

 

[smtglasgow]

First in 2025 is a strange beast. Today’s results are undeniably good – the current management team at UK Bus will feel vindicated. But on the ground it’s all a bit insipid. It feels as if individual businesses have been neutered and their only response is to introduce ever wilder AI schedules that are no doubt very efficient, but are unnecessarily complicated for passengers.

It looks as if much of the jump in profits has come from bumping up fares. They might be able to get away with that for a while, but it’s not a long-term strategy.

 

[cnjb8]

First in 2025 is a strange beast. Today’s results are undeniably good – the current management team at UK Bus will feel vindicated. But on the ground it’s all a bit insipid. It feels as if individual businesses have been neutered and their only response is to introduce ever wilder AI schedules that are no doubt very efficient, but are unnecessarily complicated for passengers.

It looks as if much of the jump in profits has come from bumping up fares. They might be able to get away with that for a while, but it’s not a long-term strategy.

The report notes that passenger growth was up 2% while passenger revenue was up 7%, so that seems to be correct

 

[F Great Eastern]

The current management team at UK Bus will feel vindicated. But on the ground it’s all a bit insipid. It feels as if individual businesses have been neutered and their only response is to introduce ever wilder AI schedules that are no doubt very efficient, but are unnecessarily complicated for passengers.

It looks as if much of the jump in profits has come from bumping up fares. They might be able to get away with that for a while, but it’s not a long-term strategy.

Realistically though how much of the current results is because of the management team and how much of it is because the hard yards that have been put in before them?

The trading so far in Bus is based on the structure that the previous management of the division implemented and most of the effects of the most recent changes won't show up for another year or two.

That's not to give a bye to the current approach of the First Bus management. The approach of re-centralising of marketing functions (and making local OpCos as delivery structures only) and the reduction of local management is the sort of McKinsey driven mantra that we see in other industries. It's also, more pertinently, that we thought First had seen the error of.

AS you say we've seen it all fail before, but the important point is that the people at the top of First Bus, are increasingly from outside the bus industry, so THEY have not seen it before.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

At least under Moir Lockheed, every individual business had their own Managing Director and possibly Engineering and Financial Director.

They did but they lost (nearly) all the good people because it was a highly centralised, diktat driven management culture.

AS you say we've seen it all fail before, but the important point is that the people at the top of First Bus, are increasingly from outside the bus industry, so THEY have not seen it before.

I don't think that's really the reason. The reality is that highly paid people come into a business, from any business, and are almost obliged to "make a difference".

Under Souter, Stagecoach were really good at balancing a level of centralisation (procurement, marketing etc) with giving the freedom and entrepreneurial license to the local teams. First have swung from one extreme to another and now back again.

 

[Volvodart]

What is noticeable about the backgrounds of pretty much all the directors on the board now is that aside from the employee director nobody has any history of working in public transport. When you consider that Jeanette Bell also has come from outside the public transport industry, it surely cannot be ideal?

An employee director is no longer to be on the board going forward.

FirstGroup plc (or the ‘Group’) announces that its Employee Director, Ant Green will not stand for re-election to the Board at the Group’s AGM on 25 July 2025.



As the UK bus and rail industries enter a period of significant change and we restructure the Group accordingly, the Board has reviewed the framework for engaging with colleagues and providing employee feedback to the Board.

Going forward, in place of an Employee Director, the Group will have a designated Non-executive Director. Following the Group’s AGM, Myrtle Dawes will be the designated Non-executive Director to ensure that the voice of the workforce is heard in the Boardroom.

Commenting, Chair Lena Wilson CBE said:


“I would like to express my thanks on behalf of the Group and the workforce to Ant for his contribution to the Board over the last five years and the insights he has provided. I look forward to working with Myrtle in her new role to ensure the Board continues to be well briefed on the views of colleagues when taking decisions.”

 

[-Colly405-]

... which, by giving the "employee voice" to a NED at least means that it they have the will, they can't be influenced by the exec "reminding them" that they are employeess so should tow the party line in their own interests. Not saying that was happening, but having a NED representing the employeess may be a good move.

 

[F Great Eastern]

... which, by giving the "employee voice" to a NED at least means that it they have the will, they can't be influenced by the exec "reminding them" that they are employeess so should tow the party line in their own interests. Not saying that was happening, but having a NED representing the employeess may be a good move.

On the reverse, I can tell you having worked in places that an employee voted for director on the board are much more effective than a NED who has been hand picked by the company to be independent but is not really and has no accountability to the staff.

 

[G760XRE]

Noted the following non Potteries vehicles at the Adderley Green paintshop this morning;

33745 SN12AOE First Greater Manchester, repainted. https://www.flickr.com/photos/195213371@N03/54588189441/in/datetaken-public/

36203 BN12WOD First South Yorkshire, repainted (couldn't get a photo due to where it was parked)

44613 YX14RVE First Worcester, awaiting repaint. https://www.flickr.com/photos/195213371@N03/54587320137/in/datetaken-public/

36257 BG12YJO First South Yorkshire, repainted. https://www.flickr.com/photos/195213371@N03/54588507765/in/datetaken-public/

 

[Andyh82]

Does anyone know if the streetdecks that are used by SPS have some sort of special coating on the side windows, as I’ve noticed that almost seem to have a mirror effect rather than plain glass, and if this is the case, why?

 

[buslad1988]

Does anyone know if the streetdecks that are used by SPS have some sort of special coating on the side windows, as I’ve noticed that almost seem to have a mirror effect rather than plain glass, and if this is the case, why?

Probably the case it’s been specified by the govt/sites that they are used for. More privacy for the staff travelling on board?

 

[G760XRE]

Putting this here as the First Berkshire thread is locked.
Noted today when walking past First Potteries Adderley Green depot was Berkshire streetlite 63300 SN65OLB, freshly painted in new Ultraviolet livery.

63300 SN65OLB

First Berkshire Streetlite, at Potteries freshly repainted into Ultraviolet livery. 22.06.25

www.flickr.com

Also on site was South Yorkshire Volvo B9 decker 35258 BG12YJP yet to be painted and Leicester E400 33696 SN12AHA in Ultraviolet. Couldn't get pic of either of these due to where they were parked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2025 ==

Further vehicles seen today at Potteries depot recently repainted into Ultraviolet livery;
First South Yorkshire 36204

36204 BN12WOH

First South Yorkshire Wright Volvo B9TL, at Potteries in recently received Ultraviolet livery, 28.06.25

www.flickr.com

First South Yorkshire 36258

36258 BG12YJP

First South Yorkshire Volvo B9TL at First Potteries paintshop. Just about to emerge from the paint shed in freshly applied ultraviolet livery, 28.06.25

www.flickr.com

First Potteries 63360 and First Manchester 63355

First Potteries Depot

First Potteries Wright Streetlites 63359 SM65WMC & 63360 SM65WMD surround First Manchester 63355 SN65WNB from the same batch. All in Ultraviolet livery, 63355 seems to be only partially painted. 28.06.25

www.flickr.com

Also a couple of non native vehicles spotted awaiting their turn for paint
First Worcester 44602

44602 YX14RUC

First Worcester E200 awaiting its turn in the First Potteries paintshop, 28.06.25

www.flickr.com

First Manchester 63350

First Potteries Depot

Native Wright Streetlites 63101 SM13NCA, 63362 SM65WMF and 63358 SM65LNR. Also present, waiting for its turn in the paintshop is First Manchester 63350 SM65WMW. 28.06.25

www.flickr.com

 

[Volvodart]

KleanDrive electric repower for 30 First Bus Wrightbus StreetDecks
Work to be carried out by Ensignbus at Purfleet using skid-based battery-electric driveline units

KleanDrive electric repower for 30 First Bus Wrightbus StreetDecks - routeone

30 Wrightbus StreetDeck double-deckers in the First Bus fleet are to be repowered from diesel to battery-electric with a KleanDrive system.

www.route-one.net

30 Wrightbus StreetDeck double-deckers in the First Bus fleet are to be repowered from diesel to battery-electric with a KleanDrive system.
That work will extend the operator’s approach to repowering the diesel StreetDeck. It adds KleanDrive as a third supplier of such technology to the group in addition to Equipmake – which has carried out one such conversion – and Wrightbus subsidiary NewPower.
FirstGroup took a £1 million stake in KleanDrive during 2024. The repower partnership will see First Bus subsidiary Ensignbus carry out the driveline work and wider refurbishment of the vehicles at its Purfleet engineering centre.
The 30 buses will gain the latest-generation KleanDrive battery-electric drivetrain. That includes 352kWh of batteries that use lithium iron phosphate cells from CATL and which deliver a usable capacity of 324kWh.
Propulsion is from the Voith Electrical Drive System and the overall package sits with power electronics on a framework and skid. A range of 195 miles at 50% passenger occupancy is claimed by the supplier.
A pilot vehicle will be converted before the programme rolls out more widely, KleanDrive adds. Removed diesel driveline components will remain with First Bus for reuse within its legacy StreetDeck fleet.
KleanDrive says that the battery-electric driveline will wholly fit within the existing engine bay “with a layout optimised for efficiency, reliability, and ease of routine maintenance.”
Founder Joe Tighe observes that the deal with First Bus “is how we see the future of repowering buses – with KleanDrive providing a world-leading, model-specific modular e-drivetrain and the body and chassis work carried out by experienced specialists like Ensign.”
Adds First Bus Managing Director (B2B) Andrew Jarvis: “We are delighted to place this order with KleanDrive. We are impressed with its engineering quality and overall solution.
“It offers a very neat package, making installation and maintenance easier to complete, which is vital for us to get the converted buses out on the roads, serving our customers, in the shortest time possible.
“For us as an operator, having a modular drivetrain and enabling the repowering to be done at our premises saves time, money and carbon emissions while empowering our technicians to work on the vehicle for routine maintenance after conversion.”

 

[Edvid]

KleanDrive electric repower for 30 First Bus Wrightbus StreetDecks
Work to be carried out by Ensignbus at Purfleet using skid-based battery-electric driveline units

Ensignbus getting involved in the repowering game is an interesting turn. I presume First wish to expand their options given the number of Streetdeck conversions NewPower have already done / are doing for them.

Hopefully KD's driveline will stand up to scrutiny better than the previous (single) version in Lothian Buses' open-top B5TL did!

 

[Volvodart]

Acquisition of Tetley's coaches

Acquisition(s)

FirstGroup plc (the `Group') today announces that it has acquired Tetley's Motor Services Limited (`Tetley's Coaches'), a Leeds-based coach and bus operator that has been in operation for over 75 years.

Tetley's Coaches operates from a large depot which it owns in Central Leeds, adjacent to the Group's existing First Bus Hunslet Park depot. It has a fleet of 55 coaches and buses and a diverse portfolio of high capacity adjacent services contracts including for schools, universities, workplace shuttles and private hire in Central Leeds and throughout the West Yorkshire Combined Authority Area. A high proportion of the contract portfolio has been recently renewed.

For the 12 months to 31 March 2024, Tetley's reported revenues of £5.3m and EBIT of £1.4m.



Managing Director Ian Tetley will remain with the business as a Director while it is integrated into First Bus.



Commenting on the acquisition, Graham Sutherland, FirstGroup Chief Executive Officer said:

"I am very pleased to welcome Tetley's Coaches to the Group. This is a well-established, profitable business with its own large, centrally located depot and a strong contract base. As we work to grow our adjacent services market share, this strategic acquisition will complement our York Pullman and Lakeside businesses and expand our operational footprint and contract portfolio in one of our key markets."

 

[Steve440]

Acquisition of Tetley's coaches

Acquisition(s)

My uncle Bill Tetley started this business in the late 1940s having previously worked for Keelings. I used to visit his house and then garage in Hovingham Avenue, Harehills.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Don't Tetley's work the Wakefield (free) City Bus contract? If so, that brings First / Yorkshire Rider buses back into Wakefield city centre on a regular service for the first time in a long time.

 

[G760XRE]

Noted today at First Potteries depot was Yutong U11DD demonstrator YD73FTP. Anyone have any idea why this is here? Don't believe Potteries have any charging points?

YD73FTP

Yutong U11DD demonstrator seen at First Potteries depot 2.8.25. Reason unknown.

www.flickr.com

Also on site were several ex Bristol Badgerline liveried Streetdecks, ex Portsmouth B9TL 37581 and former Leeds 35265 all for repaint before return or onward transfer to South Yorkshire. Also on site from Berkshire for repaint is 63301.

37581 HX08DHF

Ex First Portsmouth Volvo B9TL, at Potteries for repaint prior to transfer to First South Yorkshire. Adjacent are several Badgerline liveried Streetdecks also believed to be destined for FSY after repaint. To the left is recently withdrawn Potteries E200 MX07OZD. 2.8.25

www.flickr.com

35265 SL67VWR

First South Yorkshire Wright Streetdeck at Potteries for repaint. Adjacent is Wright Streetlite 63352 SM63WMY, recently transferred to Potteries from First Manchester. 2.8.25

www.flickr.com

63301 SN65OLC

First Berkshire Wright Streetlite at Potteries depot for repaint. 2.8.25

www.flickr.com

In the shot of 35265 is 63352, ex Manchester Streetlite shown on bustimes as transfered to Potteries, along with sister 63354.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

YD73FTP - perhaps adding 2 and 2 and making 5, but First Taunton only received 11 of the announced 12 U11DDs, and I've long wondered if this demo bus, which gained fleetnumber 30000 for trial work a while ago, has been purchased and will gain corporate purple.

 

[Rutland Road]

YD73FTP - perhaps adding 2 and 2 and making 5, but First Taunton only received 11 of the announced 12 U11DDs, and I've long wondered if this demo bus, which gained fleetnumber 30000 for trial work a while ago, has been purchased and will gain corporate purple.

This is indeed the 'missing' Taunton U11DD. Apparently been being modified to something approaching the standard First spec of 30001-30011 but retaining some demo features unique to it. e.g. heated steering wheel? For repaint to ultraviolet & silver grey at Potteries.

The nine new Wrightbus GB Kite Electroliners for Taunton-Minehead route 28 are also expected to begin arriving at Taunton in a month or so. Expected to see the last four short E200s and remaining three E300s off.

Repainted and retrimmed Streetlite 47537 now back at work in Taunton. 47535 apparently off to Adderley Green for the same treatment. 47536 & 47538 next in line.

 

[Simon75]

Are short late evening driver shifts common with First ? As the Potteries often have a shift where the 36 21.26 Meir to Kidsgrove , changes drivers at Hanley at 21.55 towards Kidsgrove . The 22.26 to Meir arrive 23.24 then dead to the garage c 10 minute drive ?