First Group: General Discussion

[overthewater]

That's the only one, that seems to have been done.

 

[Stef434]

I was going from Glasgow Central Station to Bridgeton, and Bridgeton was one of the affected stations. The driiver just wouldn't listen to what I was saying unfortunately.

When Glasgow send messages to drivers they basically copy and paste the email from abbellio onto ticketer
no harm in contacting first quoting bus fleet no as Glasgow normally get advanced messages on ticketer

 

[Lezlee]

Nope, just Googled to have a nosy at the vehicles being used - saw 11 plated Geminis… where else would they be from?

Meet 37986… before: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131364593@N06/38695863614, and after: https://www.flickr.com/photos/steve...FUy8np-25uUzhA-25wPgsq-22NNzLC-25AD8FP-FUxPMe

That's the only one, that seems to have been done.

37985 has been resprayed into the X30 livery as well, so will probably be out and about soon.

 

[overthewater]

What is the latest with the next stage of the Aberdeen strike?

 

[Volvodart]

ACAS talks this week - First only requested on Friday, so they will not get the request until today. If that fails, an indefinite strike from Friday. Drivers with up to 5 years service have had their contracts terminated. Some have signed a new contract with a lawyers letter saying that they are taking industrial action. I am not sure what is happening with those that have not signed and any that did not put in the lawyers letter. The next batch of contract terminations is several weeks away.

 

[overthewater]

This is not good for anyone.

 

[Kahuna47]

Anyone see this?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ter-news/bus-driver-takes-right-turn-14491266

Not sure how to do quotes on here, apologies. Basically, the driver was on diversion but missed the notice (I don't even think it was up on that morning, I certainly didn't see it!) so they panicked, tried to get back onto normal route and missed the 'no right turn' sign. They ended up grounding the bus on a high curb.

Of course the loving public have been out with their condolences - mostly 'sack the driver'! (The passengers just love First GM!)

I know the driver and he's been here about 9 months but doesn't know the area at all. If I had myself in that situation I know there is an alternative route which would have missed out 4 stops and added 15 mins to the trip.
However, it also brings up the topic of route learning. We're only shown the route once in both directions, and normally in early morning when there's buses available.

Anyone want to throw their two penneth in?

K

 

[overthewater]

Happened at Gyle shopping centre once with a Lothian bus

 

[Jordan Adam]

First Aberdeen's Network Manager and Scheduler met up with the owners of the "Buses For Dubford" Facebook page to discuss the best options for bus services in the Bridge Of Don area. The new network manager John Scott seems very keen to get the best options for all sides, he's behind the new 8A which gives Bridge Of Don a faster link to ARI and was hoping to have a return journey in the evening peak but currently there's not a spare bus to run such service. It's going to be interesting to see what comes about anyway!

From the Buses For Dubford Facebook page.

Today we attended a meeting at First Aberdeen HQ on King Street to discuss the provision of bus services to Dubford & Denmore and the wider Bridge of Don.

The meeting was with John Scott, the Network Manager for First Aberdeen & Scotland East and Scheduler Mark Caird. John effectively plans the routes and Mark works up the logistics to make the timetables work. We were joined by David Phillips, Operations Director for Aberdeen at the end.

Key points of the meeting:

The strike action planned to start tomorrow is suspended as the drivers union, Unite, have agreed to put a proposal to the drivers for voting on Monday. Result should be known Tuesday. If the drivers vote for the deal there will be no more strikes.

First have confirmed that they have won the tender for the Sunday bus service. They haven’t created the timetable yet but plan to do that and submit it for approval over the next week.

The number 8 bus service is poorly used and is at risk, First have agreed to look at our proposals to have the bus start at the city centre then go to ARI via Bridge of Don rather than make passengers travel in to the city then back out to get to ARI.

The new 8A has been created by John in response to similar feedback. If successful John is keen add more journeys. He would like to add a bus back to Bridge of Don after 4pm but at present there isn’t a spare bus at this time.

Our proposal to reroute the Dubford bus to enter Greenbrae from the B&Q roundabout and thus serve Bridge of Don Retail Park (would add 2 mins extra to the journey time which could be saved by the time the bus sits at the P&R) has hit a snag in that there are concerns the layout of the traffic island may restrict the bus from turning right.

John has taken note of how important a bus along the full length of King St and Union St is for us and how Scotstown and Braehead shops are something we would want to be linked too. We have put put a proposal forward on this too for two bus services, one a fast bus to the city going all the way along King St and Union St and then another that goes from Dubford via Asda, Braehead Shops and Scotstown shops to the city. John & Mark are going to run our proposal through their software to see if it could be made to work. It certainly works during the day but the peak periods may be more challenging. If the proposal could be made to work then timetable would be shared with us to view and pass comment on their suitability.

John has recently taken over the role of responsibility for planning the Aberdeen routes. He certainly came across as very receptive to our ideas and very willing to take the time and effort to see if they can be made to work. The creation of the new 8A service shows that if he can do it he will.

We look feel today was a turning point in the relationship between the community and First and that while our requests to improve the service have been ignored by previous leadership, John with Marks help, look willing to make the changes we are looking for if they can be made to work. We are optimistic that they can be. For now we will need to accept the 20 and 8 as our local services but in the reassurance behind the scenes a plan for a better bus service is being worked on.

https://www.facebook.com/busesfordubford/posts/1890168847689657

While on the topic of Dubford, a short notice service registration went through for the 20 today, I'm not sure if this is related to the Sunday service or a slight timetable change.

Registration number: PM0000631/201
Licence Number: PM0000631
Variation number: 1
Status: Registered
Service number: 20
Service type: Normal Stopping
Start point: Shielhill Drive, Dubford
Finish point: Balnagask Circle
Via: AECC- Old Aberdeen- Bridge Street
Date received: 28 Mar 2018
Effective date: 08 Apr 2018
End date:
Supported by subsidies?: No
Local authorities covered by route: Aberdeen City Council
TAOs covered by route: Scotland

But could John be a breath of fresh air? Time will tell.

 

[Stef434]

First Aberdeen's Network Manager and Scheduler met up with the owners of the "Buses For Dubford" Facebook page to discuss the best options for bus services in the Bridge Of Don area. The new network manager John Scott seems very keen to get the best options for all sides, he's behind the new 8A which gives Bridge Of Don a faster link to ARI and was hoping to have a return journey in the evening peak but currently there's not a spare bus to run such service. It's going to be interesting to see what comes about anyway!



While on the topic of Dubford, a short notice service registration went through for the 20 today, I'm not sure if this is related to the Sunday service or a slight timetable change.



But could John be a breath of fresh air? Time will tell.

Was john scott the same person who was at Scotland east

 

[overthewater]

I believe so, most of the local jobs went but many of the people in Larbart house reapplied and have been give scotland wide roles.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Yeah indeed, he is network manager for both Aberdeen and Scotland East. I only mentioned Aberdeen because Scotland East was irreverent in my post.

 

[Dentonian]

Anyone see this?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ter-news/bus-driver-takes-right-turn-14491266

Not sure how to do quotes on here, apologies. Basically, the driver was on diversion but missed the notice (I don't even think it was up on that morning, I certainly didn't see it!) so they panicked, tried to get back onto normal route and missed the 'no right turn' sign. They ended up grounding the bus on a high curb.

Of course the loving public have been out with their condolences - mostly 'sack the driver'! (The passengers just love First GM!)

I know the driver and he's been here about 9 months but doesn't know the area at all. If I had myself in that situation I know there is an alternative route which would have missed out 4 stops and added 15 mins to the trip.
However, it also brings up the topic of route learning. We're only shown the route once in both directions, and normally in early morning when there's buses available.

Anyone want to throw their two penneth in?

K

Surely, the procedure is that if the driver is in anyway confused, he should tweet the depot, and sit and wait until they tweet a reply.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Surely, the procedure is that if the driver is in anyway confused, he should tweet the depot, and sit and wait until they tweet a reply.

I think they would need a factual reply in minutes not weeks.... :P

 

[Dentonian]

I think they would need a factual reply in minutes not weeks.... :P

Unfortunately, it seems that Twitter is the ONLY form of communication First Manchester use nowadays, since getting rid of all on road supervision last April.

 

[Stan Drews]

Unfortunately, it seems that Twitter is the ONLY form of communication First Manchester use nowadays, since getting rid of all on road supervision last April.

Not sure I understand the link between on road supervision, twitter, and a driver attempting a right turn at a 'no right turn' junction?
Very few bus operators have on road supervision, twitter is widely used, and drivers will always make mistakes no matter how good/bad they may be trained.

 

[Dentonian]

Not sure I understand the link between on road supervision, twitter, and a driver attempting a right turn at a 'no right turn' junction?
Very few bus operators have on road supervision, twitter is widely used, and drivers will always make mistakes no matter how good/bad they may be trained.

It was a more general comment about First's attitude to communication with the fare paying public more than anything. However, it is also significant that a driver is not familiar with the route after 9 months at the operating depot. In the absence of further details, I'm guessing the route was 472/474 Ramsbottom circulars which has only recently been reduced from a combined 12 buses an hour to 8 bph so hardly some twice a day peak only service or one bus evening only contract.

 

[Bungle965]

Not sure if it has mentioned or not but 69537/8/9 have travelled to pastures new yesterday and are now resident in Bolton depot. Quite a few social media reports being that their intended usage is on the Guided Busway with 36279 and 36280 which are the usual spares having reached their age limit for use on the Busway.
Sam

 

[Dentonian]

Not sure if it has mentioned or not but 69537/8/9 have travelled to pastures new yesterday and are now resident in Bolton depot. Quite a few social media reports being that their intended usage is on the Guided Busway with 36279 and 36280 which are the usual spares having reached their age limit for use on the Busway.
Sam

I read that too. Only troubles is, these are only a year younger and are single deckers. This suggests they are either a stop-gap, or actually replace the last B10BLEs, with 14 reg E400s recently transferred from Rusholme being the spares for Busway ops. I know major internal reallocations have been mooted alongt with withdrawals, but apart from three more Citaroes being withdrawn and a sole B7RLE (66880) re-introducing the type to Oldham, nothing has been confirmed.

 

[Blackpudding]

I read that too. Only troubles is, these are only a year younger and are single deckers. This suggests they are either a stop-gap, or actually replace the last B10BLEs, with 14 reg E400s recently transferred from Rusholme being the spares for Busway ops. I know major internal reallocations have been mooted alongt with withdrawals, but apart from three more Citaroes being withdrawn and a sole B7RLE (66880) re-introducing the type to Oldham, nothing has been confirmed.

Phil. This is what I have gleaned:

33857: Rusholme to Bolton
37297, 37387, 37388, 37391, 37397, 37401, 37402 and 37420: Bolton to Queens
66846, 66848, 66861, 66863, 66864, 66865, 66870, 66872, 66873, 66880, 66892, and 66894: Bolton to Oldham (Edited to show 66865 rather than 66895)
66916, 66917, 69198 and 69202: Queens to Oldham

 

[Jordan Adam]

First Aberdeen have released a new map for the 20 from the 6th of May which contains a new Sunday variation numbered 40 (council funded) operating between Guild Street and Dubford via the full length of King Street. On top of this the city centre guide is now out but this doesn't show the 40.

Service 20/40 Map - From 5/6/18
City Centre Map - From 1/4/18

 

[Jordan Adam]

Aberdeen drivers have childishly rejected the final offer...

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...deen-bus-drivers-vote-to-reject-new-pay-deal/

 

[Jordan Adam]

The following is from the First Aberdeen twitter..

Firstly, we would like to begin by apologising to our customers for the on-going disruption that further industrial action is likely to cause as we very much hoped to be getting our services back to normal. First Aberdeen are extremely disappointed by the news that the Unite the Union members have voted to reject our final offer proposal on the revised terms and conditions.

This agreement was reached with the Unite the Union representatives via the ACAS collective conciliation talks, where management were extremely transparent about the precarious financial position that the company finds itself in. During these talks, we were absolutely clear that this was the best and final offer on the table despite the current reality of the situation facing the business in the city.

We were willing to go to these extra lengths to get the city’s bus services back to normal and end the disruption, so to see this voted down via ballot is very concerning indeed. The company will now need to take some time to digest this result and to weigh up the next steps as the costs to the business and falling revenues we are currently enduring simply cannot be sustained. The changes to terms and conditions were introduced to reshape our cost base to ensure that there is a future for the business in the city.

https://twitter.com/FirstAberdeen

The same post is now on the website... https://www.firstgroup.com/aberdeen...-aberdeen-reaction-outcome-unite-union-ballot

 

[overthewater]

Does that mean it's now a month long strike? Could First call they bluff and say if there unwilling to move there just pull out this making the union come back to the table?

Here one of the replyies to that tweet: https://twitter.com/Bakuryu44/status/983404847973191681

Admittedly I'm certainly no financial expert. But perhaps in a similar way as to how schools and hospitals do. It's my understanding that the council pay First to run the bus network, then we pay directly on top of that.

Why do people still believe the council give money to the companies to run the network?

 

[Dentonian]

Does that mean it's now a month long strike? Could First call they bluff and say if there unwilling to move there just pull out this making the union come back to the table?

Here one of the replyies to that tweet: https://twitter.com/Bakuryu44/status/983404847973191681



Why do people still believe the council give money to the companies to run the network?

Because that's how it works in London, so the concept of Deregulation isn't even grasped in the Media.

 

[overthewater]

Because that's how it works in London, so the concept of Deregulation isn't even grasped in the Media.

Then those people are stupid especially since the scottish parliament has full control over transport.

 

[Dentonian]

This is what I have gleaned:

33857: Rusholme to Bolton
37297, 37387, 37388, 37391, 37397, 37401, 37402 and 37420: Bolton to Queens
66846, 66848, 66861, 66863, 66864, 66870, 66872, 66873, 66880, 66892, 66894 and 66895: Bolton to Oldham
66916, 66917, 69198 and 69202: Queens to Oldham

Thanks. I understand the remaining Enviro300s at Bolton are expected to transfer to Oldham as well - albeit exactly the same consolidation was mooted last September! Also, it is believed "some or all" B7TL/ALX400s are to be withdrawn.

 

[DragonEast]

Aberdeen drivers have childishly rejected the final offer...

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...deen-bus-drivers-vote-to-reject-new-pay-deal/

Hardly the first time the Brits have voted down what's on offer in favour of anything else is it? It rather seems to be a modern habit. Real life soap opera. As someone said to me explaining their support for Brexit "I don't know anyone who's not in favour of it".

Lots of comments down the years about why someone doesn't put First out of their misery. Some of their own bus drivers seem to agree, in Aberdeen at least. Perhaps not only in Aberdeen? Their muddle and make do habit might offer an easier target. The passengers who are seriously affected have my sympathy, but I suspect they are many fewer than we think, perhaps in dozens rather than hundreds at least once everyone gets on to the mitigation, pronto. Buses, to the majority of us, are a matter of supreme indifference, and First, even less. Repaints and vehicle movements are much more interesting. Buses, a hobby more than a service. That's why the drivers feel able to throw their jobs in the Company's face. The National Wealth Service will look after them. It does seem a kick not just to the Company but to their own union negotiators too. A message . . . I'm just not sure what, or perhaps that anyone else is either.

 

[Blackpudding]

Thanks. I understand the remaining Enviro300s at Bolton are expected to transfer to Oldham as well - albeit exactly the same consolidation was mooted last September! Also, it is believed "some or all" B7TL/ALX400s are to be withdrawn.

I heard the same about the 7 E300s that are left at Bolton. I have to say I thought it would be a stretch for Bolton to loose the B7RLEs and the E300s but with vehicles transferring in from Rusholme and the 3 B7RLE from Hoeford it could be possible. I suspect some moves are still to take place. As for the B7TL I can't make the numbers balance to replace all but I could see the 5 earlier ones up to 30936 as a minimum going. As an aside 32972 was the last Trident standing up to last weekend - I expect it got culled this weekend. I made a typo by the way: 66895 should read 66865.

 

[overthewater]

If anyone wants a good laugh type "First Aberdeen" in to tweeter.... Some people are off their rockers:

https://twitter.com/dollyknights/status/983683501693243392

On page 25 of your annual report for 2017 operating profit for first bus was 37 million...failing to understand ‘your precarious financial position’...

Its seems this person has not been told about the lack of any dividend to shareholders for 4 years, the new buses being brought, major whack on the penson pots, or the debt it has to pay off.... .

There is also Fake account: Aberdeen Buses First‏ @BusAberdeen ... that stirring it up

If it really is about those split shifts, surly First can be creative about fill those 3-4 hours during the day? Union work? office work? Spare driver to cover absences? Also who on earth is getting 300K in Scottish management team?