First Group: General Discussion

[overthewater]

What do you expect the Commercial Manager to have said?

"We're desperate to get out of this town, we plan to make dozens of people redundant in a few months time, the business is a waste of time"?

Of course not - managers have to give the impression that everything is absolutely fine (right until the moment that they run away). Shouldn't read anything into comments like that.

Or ne does not know. Its been know top brass at first don't inform staff further down the line on happenings with there operations.

 

[MK Tom]

Just because it was profitable, doesn't mean it was always going to remain profitable.

I'm not convinced Northampton is big enough to sustain two operators competing on town routes - the only other place I can think of which is a similar size and has is Ipswich, but Ipswich buses have retained a stranglehold on the town services and First have had the inter-town services.

Whereas in Northampton you've had Stagecoach competing head on with First.

You're fond of comparing Northampton to MK - MK has never sustained two sizeable operators, nor has Luton (since 1970 or thereabouts when Luton transport sold out to UC), nor has Watford or many other places.

I haven't made that comparison in quite some time, at least regarding buses.

Stagecoach originally were the long-distance operator as you'll know, if you trace them back to their United Counties against Northampton Transport origins. Stagecoach then began to expand onto NT territory and First and its predecessor completely failed to resist it at all.

If Uno do expand their presence in Northampton we'll be in that situation again anyway.

MK has never had a serious second operator. People who think Stagecoach expanding into MK is a bad idea tend to reference ABC Cars or On a Mission or Transit Group or so on. These were all small independent operators, and the latter two, especially OAM, with a disastrous financial model and atrocious vehicles that make First's fleet look comparatively stellar. Arriva do not provide a good service in MK. They overcharge on fares (with Stagecoach now effectively competing on a few routes with lower ones), they have poor vehicle maintenance and timekeeping is abysmal. An operator like Stagecoach or a proper heavyweight like them (even down to someone like Centrebus) would have comparatively little difficulty in draining Arriva's market.

Anyway, we deviate. You may well be right that Northampton isn't capable of sustaining competition. But First have not made any effort to hold onto it. If they had, you wouldn't see people letting First buses go so they can get Stagecoach fares and comfort on the same routes.

 

[westcoaster]

In Northampton today and I saw a Gemini parked up in the bus station, thought these had all gone.

 

[MK Tom]

In Northampton today and I saw a Gemini parked up in the bus station, thought these had all gone.

Both were still there when I visited Monday before last.

 

[westcoaster]

Both were still there when I visited Monday before last.

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[MK Tom]

Wonder if anyone can explain what this is doing in Northampton? http://www.flickr.com/photos/mutlysbusfots/8666575814/in/photostream

 

[markie73]

Wonder if anyone can explain what this is doing in Northampton? http://www.flickr.com/photos/mutlysbusfots/8666575814/in/photostream

This looks really sorry for its self as if its been dragged from the scrap yard to be returned to service, I wonder as a final insult if First will replace the existing fleet with time expired crap in readiness for the cut backs?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Both were still there when I visited Monday before last.

Yes both the Gemini's still around town today but for how much longer?, does anybody know how many of these used to be in the Northampton fleet?

Also I wonder what the fate of 38122 will be? I hope that First will retain this one in Northampton.

 

[MK Tom]

To be honest I've had really good experiences with East Lancs Sprytes. First replacing the fleet with them would probably be an improvement. They ride really nicely even with Arriva-standard maintenance, so hopefully First examples would be good too.

 

[markie73]

To be honest I've had really good experiences with East Lancs Sprytes. First replacing the fleet with them would probably be an improvement. They ride really nicely even with Arriva-standard maintenance, so hopefully First examples would be good too.

Looks like the start of a fleet replacement I cant see the Ultralows staying put for the sake of three routes that's my view anyway.

 

[overthewater]

Looks like the start of a fleet replacement I cant see the Ultralows staying put for the sake of three routes that's my view anyway.

Ultralows could be better used else where in the empire. why not put in crap if Northampton wont be around for long.

 

[markie73]

Ultralows could be better used else where in the empire. why not put in crap if Northampton wont be around for long.

You could be right on this, I wonder how much more will arrive at Northampton in the next few weeks or so?.

Its a matter of time now until the Gemini's leave the fleet I cant see them staying until the end.

 

[overthewater]

You could be right on this, I wonder how much more will arrive at Northampton in the next few weeks or so?.

Its a matter of time now until the Gemini's leave the fleet I cant see them staying until the end.

maybe some ex london darts

 

[David57]

First Post on here.

Took a few photos (with permission) in Northampton Garage this afternoon, I have lived here for 30 years, and sadly seems First is in it's death throws.

Uno bus are advertising in the local paper for Drivers.

 

[overthewater]

First Post on here.

Took a few photos (with permission) in Northampton Garage this afternoon, I have lived here for 30 years, and sadly seems First is in it's death throws.

Uno bus are advertising in the local paper for Drivers.

Welcome abroad,

 

[MK Tom]

First Post on here.

Took a few photos (with permission) in Northampton Garage this afternoon, I have lived here for 30 years, and sadly seems First is in it's death throws.

Uno bus are advertising in the local paper for Drivers.

Would it be possible for you to post these photos online somewhere for us?

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Ivo]

Wonder if anyone can explain what this is doing in Northampton? http://www.flickr.com/photos/mutlysbusfots/8666575814/in/photostream

You're welcome to it The 410XX (05 to 17) batch were never the best buses Hadleigh had given to them!

One explanation with this in mind is that an upcoming "reboot" of the South Essex network - which, as with South Hampshire, is doomed to fail in my opinion - will reduce the PVR a little, giving them the chance to send the oldest buses elsewhere.

 

[MCW]

That might make a trip to Northampton that tad more interesting

 

[Ivo]

They could at least have sent those 410XX buses to Bath and sent our hideously awful ...I mean, "lovely" 'S'-reg Darts to Northampton.

 

[bb21]

They could at least have sent those 410XX buses to Bath and sent our hideously awful ...I mean, "lovely" 'S'-reg Darts to Northampton.

Isn't that a bit too modern considering their PVR for the whole network? I'm sure there must be older vehicles lying about still somewhere within the First empire.

 

[markie73]

They could at least have sent those 410XX buses to Bath and sent our hideously awful ...I mean, "lovely" 'S'-reg Darts to Northampton.

I was in Taunton last week and I could not believe how scruffy most of the First fleet is apart from a couple of Eclipses that have been repainted in the new First livery, does anybody know if First Avon and Somerset is being wound down as well or is this part of the massive operation that First has in Bristol?.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They could at least have sent those 410XX buses to Bath and sent our hideously awful ...I mean, "lovely" 'S'-reg Darts to Northampton.

How about a few "lovely" Ultralows from Northampton?, given the pending service cuts there will be a few of them looking for a new home shortly.

 

[overthewater]

Is it true the new Uno service will operate every 15 mins as a cross town route Via the No8 route before going to Rectory Farm?

Will Stagecoach start a service to Acre Lane area?

 

[markie73]

Is it true the new Uno service will operate every 15 mins as a cross town route Via the No8 route before going to Rectory Farm?

Will Stagecoach start a service to Acre Lane area?

I dont know about the Unobus service 21 to Rectory Farm but as I understand it Stagecoach have no plans to launch a competing service with First Northampton service 4A on the Acre Lane route but no doubt Stagecoach will be watching with Interest but to be honest I cant see two competitors on this route as the Acre Lane route is not very busy.

I still think that Unobus could be the dark horse when it comes to the 4,4A and the 2 if and when First cancel these services, its not a done deal that Stagecoach will end up with the 4 permanently as the 16/17 is a competing service with the 4 all be it on a slightly different route come June 9th.

 

[David57]

As I posted yesterday, is it just a coincidence that Unobus are actively recruiting drivers in this weeks Northampton paper?

MKTom, I do not know how to upload photos to this site, I would if I could!!!

 

[tbtc]

They could at least have sent those 410XX buses to Bath and sent our hideously awful ...I mean, "lovely" 'S'-reg Darts to Northampton.

Don't be silly, they'd never last the journey up to Northampton

 

[MK Tom]

As I posted yesterday, is it just a coincidence that Unobus are actively recruiting drivers in this weeks Northampton paper?

MKTom, I do not know how to upload photos to this site, I would if I could!!!

Well we know they're extending the 21 so it's probably just that. But who knows.

You use the paperclip icon. It's along the top of the box when you reply to the thread (having clicked 'go advanced'). Alternatively you could put them somewhere else and link to them.

 

[overthewater]

No one not even first can made it clear that sell off is finished, but that is part in part, since First still needs to cut its losses, and continue with its overhaul programme, of invertment, overhauling its operations etc.

Nothing has been said how first will curb its losses in some of its less to do areas. Some have been sold off while others will can we really believe loses have been cut right back? following are the Key areas which need to be kept a eye on.


* First Edinburgh Bar the Scottish Border, every where else is not out of the woods yet, nor has the company done enough to change Approx £4M losses into some sort of profit? Will Scotrail come in to play?

* Irish Aircoach Other Details of the current situation read Page 65. Accounts are not good reading, Could first hold tight in a hope Eire will pick up? will there be able to improve the leasing problems?


* First Cornwall
With its 9.3% loses over the past Financial year. I've not notice any big scaling back of its operations? Has anyone notice any big cutbacks?

* First Glasgow No2: CHANGED
The company is in the red by 7.3%. Has overhauling Lanarkshire routes and closing Cumbernauld got rid of the losses? Overtown: what will happen next..

* First Ipswich
What are first going to do to improve its fortunes? Alot of P and R reg stock, nothing that stands out as a cash cow bar the park N ride which could be lost. How much will it cost to replace alot of the fleet even with T, X, reg which is also needed else where?

* First Leicester
When will Leicester see the full impact of the new First?

 

[bb21]

When will Leicester see the full impact of the new First?

One step at a time.

I am still waiting to see 32066 on the road in its new colours, considering how long ago it was reported that it was in the workshop.

 

[overthewater]

One step at a time.

I am still waiting to see 32066 on the road in its new colours, considering how long ago it was reported that it was in the workshop.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/73096525@N02/8623856015/
....Going by those comments I don't think you want to see it.

First ( as said in one of those comments) should have done a proper job. have a cut off point, ie 52, everything below it get nothing everything above it get overhaul, deep clean, new livery etc. It may take a few years to get around everything but it would mean passengers could tell the difference.

 

[tbtc]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/73096525@N02/8623856015/
....Going by those comments I don't think you want to see it.

First ( as said in one of those comments) should have done a proper job. have a cut off point, ie 52, everything below it get nothing everything above it get overhaul, deep clean, new livery etc. It may take a few years to get around everything but it would mean passengers could tell the difference.

We have R-reg B10BLEs in the new livery in South Yorkshire and Geminis in the old livery, its a real muddle - what else do you expect from First though (look at the pigs ear they made of fleet renumbering)?

I agree that there should have been some proper organisation which would have made the new livery equate with "quality" (youngest buses, refurbished, something upmarket), but... no, that's not how they do things.

 

[overthewater]

We have R-reg B10BLEs in the new livery in South Yorkshire and Geminis in the old livery, its a real muddle - what else do you expect from First though (look at the pigs ear they made of fleet renumbering)?

I agree that there should have been some proper organisation which would have made the new livery equate with "quality" (youngest buses, refurbished, something upmarket), but... no, that's not how they do things.

I think its got more to do with the Regional directors, nearly every part of the empire is taken a different approach. Down south its a major overhaul newer buses, new livery etc, In central Scotland its trying to overhaul but no pvp reduction, new network, but very little in the way of new livery.