First Group: General Discussion

[markie73]

Well stagecoach will be getting the existing First service 4 then?, I am interested to see the 16 and the 17 which stagecoach intend to run via holly lodge drive as well.

Surely first cant sustain a operation with only two routes in the town?, their cuts are even more savage then we thought they would be,.

I stand corrected to the above as it looks like stagecoach will replace the 4 with the 16 and the 17 which by the sound of things are going to be extended to kingsthorpe and Sunnyside and will operate every 10 minutes.

I am very surprised that first have binned the 4 as I thought that this was one of the routes that was going to stay with the 4A,2,29/30 as rumored.

 

[Deerfold]

Well stagecoach will be getting the existing First service 4 then?, I am interested to see the 16X and the 17 which stagecoach intend to run via holly lodge drive as well.

Surely first cant sustain a operation with only two routes in the town?, their cuts are even more savage then we thought they would be,.

It depends what you mean by "getting".

It appears that Stagecoach are going to be running a substantially similar service to First's current no 4.

However there's no agreement or anything between the two and nothing to stop anyone else deciding to run along the route.

 

[markie73]

It depends what you mean by "getting".

It appears that Stagecoach are going to be running a substantially similar service to First's current no 4.

However there's no agreement or anything between the two and nothing to stop anyone else deciding to run along the route.

But have First actually dumped the service 4 as I can't see anything to confirm this other then stagecoach cancelling the 3 and having their application accepted to alter the service 4 and also the extension of the existing stagecoach service 16/17 to cover kingsthorpe and Sunnyside.

 

[overthewater]

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/serviceupdatedetails.aspx?Id=7254 to see new timetables:


http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/...sport/pubtrans/pages/bus-service-changes.aspx


http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/n...-to-improve-services-in-northampton-1-5009292

Vital public transport links throughout Northampton have been saved from closure by a bus company.

Following the decision by First bus company to withdraw some of their services in the town, Stagecoach has said it will step in to make sure the key routes are maintained.

First has decided from June 9 they will no longer run routes 12 to Briar Hill/Camp Hill, 28 to West Hunsbury and 29/30 Kings Heath.

However Stagecoach has said that from May 12 they will run services to cover these areas.

Steve Burd, managing director of Stagecoach Midlands, said: “We are pleased to be able to step into what could have been a very difficult position that would have left residents without vital links into the centre of Northampton.

“By introducing these changes we have ensured that people are still able to use the bus for their transport needs.”

Stagecoach will run a service to West Hunsbury on route 10, stopping at Parklands, Kettering Rd, Northampton town centre, Far Cotton, Mereway Tesco and West Hunsbury.

There will also be a route 12 to Kings Heath, Briar Hill and Camp Hill, running from Kings Heath, Dallington Road, Northampton town centre, Far Cotton, Briar Hill and Camp Hill, with a Sunday service to Mereway Tesco.

Stagecoach will introduce other improvements from June 10 with service 16/17 extended to Sunnyside every 10 minutes via Barrack Road and Kingsthorpe.

The bus company said the service will provide a faster way for people into town from Sunnyside and offer through journeys to Northampton College, Weston Favell and Ecton Brook.

The frequency on service 8 will be increased from every 30 minutes to 20 minutes between Northampton town centre and Weston Favell and the route will be extended to Blackthorn and Rectory Farm to provide links to Northampton College and a more direct service to Weston Favell.

Mr Burd added: “The extensions on routes 8 and 16/17 will give people a far better service to Northampton College, one of the largest educational establishments in the county, and a major employment centre and shopping destination in Weston Favell.”

The new timetables for routes 10 and 12 are available online at www.stagecoachbus.com/northants

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I wonder why Stagecoach are cutting the service to Camp hill.

 

[MK Tom]

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/serviceupdatedetails.aspx?Id=7254 to see new timetables:


http://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/...sport/pubtrans/pages/bus-service-changes.aspx


http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/n...-to-improve-services-in-northampton-1-5009292


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder why Stagecoach are cutting the service to Camp hill.

they're not... They're creating it to replace the First one.


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But have First actually dumped the service 4 as I can't see anything to confirm this other then stagecoach cancelling the 3 and having their application accepted to alter the service 4 and also the extension of the existing stagecoach service 16/17 to cover kingsthorpe and Sunnyside.

see the VOSA registrations on the previous page. There's one for First cancelling the 4.

 

[overthewater]

they're not... They're creating it to replace the First one.

Stagecoach replacement is still less often that the current first service.

 

[MK Tom]

The First 12 is very underused. Whenever I've gone on it it's had 4-5 passengers maximum.

 

[overthewater]

so I take it Service 10 and no 8 will be getting the solos just brought then.

 

[markie73]

they're not... They're creating it to replace the First one.


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see the VOSA registrations on the previous page. There's one for First cancelling the 4.

Nope the only one I can see is firsts application to alter the 4A and the service 2 timetable and nothing confirming the cancelation of the service 4.

 

[overthewater]

Nope the only one I can see is firsts application to alter the 4A and the service 2 timetable and nothing confirming the cancelation of the service 4.

comfusment might be this:
PF0007071/115 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH MIDLANDS, UNIT 7/8, MAIN ROAD, FAR COTTON, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8ES
Variation Accepted: Operating between Northampton Bus Station and Northampton Bus Station given service number 4 effective from 09-Jun-2013. To amend Timetable.

- PF0007045/35 first Service 4 and 4a is still going:

The only thing bar the no2 still going is this:

PF0007045/81 NORTHAMPTON TRANSPORT LTD Luton, Parkway Station Luton Airport, Terminal Building 888 Registered

 

[MK Tom]

Oops oh right. So First, Stagey and Uno to compete on the 4 corridor?

 

[Volvodart]

The Luton buses now have legals for First Essex Buses at Chelmsford.

 

[markie73]

The Luton buses now have legals for First Essex Buses at Chelmsford.

Which is the same as Northampton....so it looks like we will no longer see the bendy bus in northampton for maintenance then.
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Oops oh right. So First, Stagey and Uno to compete on the 4 corridor?

When stagecoach announced the service 3 eastern avenue,kingsland avenue was not going to be served by stagecoach due to both first and uno already serving that area.

It will be interesting to see what happens in kingsthorpe with this lot and evrn more so at the uni as stagecoach will have the 7/16/17 competing with uno.

Looks like we will be seeing ALX400s and the odd olympian as stagecoach already use these on the existing 16 and 17 routes.

 

[overthewater]

I still get the feeling First are cutting back the business so there can sell it on to uno, for a small profit to help cut its losses.

Nothing has been said about Cornwall area, which needs to some trimming to allow it to return to profit.

 

[90sWereBetter]

What's the betting the three remaining Volvo Citybuses all survive this cull and continue to run for the rest of the year?

 

[MK Tom]

Imagine that being the entire fleet, 3x Volvo Citybus and 2x Dennis Lance :P

 

[markie73]

Imagine that being the entire fleet, 3x Volvo Citybus and 2x Dennis Lance :P

You would just love that MKTom!!, the way things are going it may well end up that way!!
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What's the betting the three remaining Volvo Citybuses all survive this cull and continue to run for the rest of the year?

Plus a hand full of crusty ultra lows as well, let's not forget them!

 

[MK Tom]

You would just love that MKTom!!, the way things are going it may well end up that way!!
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Plus a hand full of crusty ultra lows as well, let's not forget them!

One expects that'll in fact be the entire fleet. It's an appalling joke really and First should be absolutely ashamed of what they've done with a once extensive and profitable operation.

 

[markie73]

One expects that'll in fact be the entire fleet. It's an appalling joke really and First should be absolutely ashamed of what they've done with a once extensive and profitable operation.

Totally agree with what you are saying, First have destroyed Northampton they might as well call it a day rather then keep three services which will end up being axed anyway.

 

[MK Tom]

Two services really. 'A' on a number generally means they're variations or the same route which the 4/4A are.

 

[markie73]

Two services really. 'A' on a number generally means they're variations or the same route which the 4/4A are.

Its a very sad way for a once proud operation to end its days this way, time will tell how long the remaining services will last for aftet june 9th.

 

[overthewater]

Its all about closing down it's operations as cheap as possible. I can get the feeling some drivers will move over to stagey.

 

[MK Tom]

Its all about closing down it's operations as cheap as possible. I can get the feeling some drivers will move over to stagey.

Not some I've spoken to... I don't understand why but there seems to be some bad feeling there.

 

[overthewater]

Not some I've spoken to... I don't understand why but there seems to be some bad feeling there.

Don't know either first could have tried harder.

 

[KendalKing]

Its all about closing down it's operations as cheap as possible.

Its a very sad way for a once proud operation to end its days this way, time will tell how long the remaining services will last for aftet june 9th.

I would not be surprised, if first are out of Northampton by Christmas.

 

[winston270twm]

I would not be surprised, if first are out of Northampton by Christmas.

I think it will be well before then, I'm thinking about within 3 months after 9th June.

The remaining operation will not be big enough to cover the costs of running a depot in Northampton, First have no intention of staying they want out

 

[markie73]

I think it will be well before then, I'm thinking about within 3 months after 9th June.

The remaining operation will not be big enough to cover the costs of running a depot in Northampton, First have no intention of staying they want out

I seem to remember a newspaper article a while back with this quote from First's commercial manager 'we have no intention of leaving Northampton' well if that is the case then its not very convincing with the way things are looking at the moment.

I'm in agreement with Winston on this, give it three months if not sooner from June 9th and First Northampton will be gone.

 

[overthewater]

What about the company other operations which continue to make loses?

 

[A0]

One expects that'll in fact be the entire fleet. It's an appalling joke really and First should be absolutely ashamed of what they've done with a once extensive and profitable operation.

Just because it was profitable, doesn't mean it was always going to remain profitable.

I'm not convinced Northampton is big enough to sustain two operators competing on town routes - the only other place I can think of which is a similar size and has is Ipswich, but Ipswich buses have retained a stranglehold on the town services and First have had the inter-town services.

Whereas in Northampton you've had Stagecoach competing head on with First.

You're fond of comparing Northampton to MK - MK has never sustained two sizeable operators, nor has Luton (since 1970 or thereabouts when Luton transport sold out to UC), nor has Watford or many other places.

 

[tbtc]

I seem to remember a newspaper article a while back with this quote from First's commercial manager 'we have no intention of leaving Northampton' well if that is the case then its not very convincing with the way things are looking at the moment

What do you expect the Commercial Manager to have said?

"We're desperate to get out of this town, we plan to make dozens of people redundant in a few months time, the business is a waste of time"?

Of course not - managers have to give the impression that everything is absolutely fine (right until the moment that they run away). Shouldn't read anything into comments like that.