First Group: General Discussion

[dodecahedron67]

So much for getting some quality vehicles instead of rattlers

It’s interesting because originally these 44 were to be singles with arrival, to replace the bendy buses & some B7s, but now I’ve been told they are to be double decks. Not sure what’s going to happen to those bendys & B7s now, but I suspect these 44 will see off the B9TLs.

 

[Snow1964]

It’s interesting because originally these 44 were to be singles with arrival, to replace the bendy buses & some B7s, but now I’ve been told they are to be double decks. Not sure what’s going to happen to those bendys & B7s now, but I suspect these 44 will see off the B9TLs.

it is reported the 193 buses are 20 double deck streetdeck, 167 11.6m single deck and 6 10.9m single decks

Therefore assume the 44 for York are part of the 11.6m single deck batch, so not sure where the double deck suggestion comes from.

First Bus orders 193 Wrightbus battery-electrics - routeone

First Bus has placed an order with Wrightbus for 193 battery-electric vehicles as the fruits of Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas bids.

www.route-one.net

 

[SSmith2009]

First Bus places one of UK’s largest ever EV bus orders with UK manufacturer Wrightbus following DfT ZEBRA funding award​

https://firstgroup-plc.production.investis.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2022/31082022.aspx

Leicester had the Electroliner demonstrator a few months back and it seemed to perform well on the 54 route when I sampled it

68 buses would see off most of the current fleet

 

[dodecahedron67]

it is reported the 193 buses are 20 double deck streetdeck, 167 11.6m single deck and 6 10.9m single decks

Therefore assume the 44 for York are part of the 11.6m single deck batch, so not sure where the double deck suggestion comes from

Re-reading the bit I’ve seen, I may or may not have missed a word. “Including” was the word I missed, and indeed it does mention the Kite and the Electroliner further down.

I blame my lack of sleep!

 

[ElBoiii]

I don't know why they thought putting a forward-facing seat behind the driver was a good idea (Alexander Dennis Enviro 400).

 

[Goldfish62]

I don't know why they thought putting a forward-facing seat behind the driver was a good idea (Alexander Dennis Enviro 400).

Advertised seating capacity. As it happens I've sat in that seat and had no problem with it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This will be the big test to see if wright build quality deteriorates with a big order. The the decision to go with them I suspect is based on performance and range as well as as after sales service and support and midlife replacement of components such as batteries. The byd DDL offering is quite frankly in my opinion rubbish, the maximum given range is is very hard to achieve by all accounts and with a large number in operation in greater Glasgow first have no doubt learnt this the hard way


Disappointing to to not see any yutong in that order or indeed any of the the Volvo or or Mercedes offerings

 

[Goldfish62]

This will be the big test to see if wright build quality deteriorates with a big order. The the decision to go with them I suspect is based on performance and range as well as as after sales service and support and midlife replacement of components such as batteries. The byd DDL offering is quite frankly in my opinion rubbish, the maximum given range is is very hard to achieve by all accounts and with a large number in operation in greater Glasgow first have no doubt learnt this the hard way


Disappointing to to not see any yutong in that order or indeed any of the the Volvo or or Mercedes offerings

It's excellent news for Wrightbus, however: the build quality of recent Streetlites I've travelled on is appalling, worse than that of the original style E200s, so I would certainly hope it's going to be better than that!

On battery range and life, it's certainly impressive claims being made by Wrightbus, but then BYD said the same (and OEMs tend to exaggerate claims anyway), so we'll have to see.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Disappointing to to not see any yutong in that order or indeed any of the the Volvo or or Mercedes offerings

This was an article about a Wrightbus order; why would Yutong or any other manufacturer get a mention?

 

[Snow1964]

This was an article about a Wrightbus order; why would Yutong or any other manufacturer get a mention?

There were 943 buses announced in March as being subsidised in England by DfT, and these orders by First with Wrightbus are only about fifth of the total. So don’t assume other manufacturers aren’t getting any.

 

[Goldfish62]

There were 943 buses announced in March as being subsidised in England by DfT, and these orders by First with Wrightbus are only about fifth of the total. So don’t assume other manufacturers aren’t getting any.

Indeed. Many more orders to be placed yet, and that's excluding the continual trickle of orders from London.

 

[Pokelet]

I actually feel sorry for Worcester and Wales! Lol

Worcester is a basket case and what services remain are a shadow of their former self. The only good thing going is that First own the city centre depot which is ripe for development.

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed. Many more orders to be placed yet, and that's excluding the continual trickle of orders from London.

Yes, around 130 electric buses in the latest London tender results.

 

[Callum15632]

In other news, 37613 and 37621 have transferred to Essex today from First Portsmouth,Fareham and Gosport.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In other news, 37613 and 37621 have transferred to Essex today from First Portsmouth,Fareham and Gosport.

More cascades to replace the elderly ALXs (and Tridents) - gone to Colchester?. They have plenty of former stablemates with ex Bristol B7TL/Geminis there.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Reading back I don't think another recent First EV order was mentioned here. 50 more BYD/ADL single-decks for Glasgow (Scotstoun) and 24 Yutong E12s for Aberdeen. These have been ordered with ScotZEB funding that was awarded earlier in the year - all to be delivered later in 2023.

BYD ADL and Yutong in First Bus Scotland 74 EV order - routeone

First Bus has confirmed orders for 74 further battery-electric single-deck buses for its remaining fleets in Scotland.

www.route-one.net

 

[317 forever]

I rode First Eclipse 69439 in Leicester yesterday. It had been on Mendip Explorer services in Somerset and from a rare batch of 59-reg Eclipses for First.

What stood out was that it had 1997 moquette rather than 2008 or a more recent example.

Also in Leicester, the Enviro 400s on routes 14/14a, originally at Bolton, had been refurbished and given a black moquette with some purple stripes. I then saw some First Leicester staff with uniforms mainly black with a little purple.

 

[oldman]

First have announced that the equity fund which bought its US business has agreed to sell on First Transit (not Student) to Transdev North America. When completed First will get about USD 85M, a bit less than they had previously accounted for.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I rode First Eclipse 69439 in Leicester yesterday. It had been on Mendip Explorer services in Somerset and from a rare batch of 59-reg Eclipses for First.

What stood out was that it had 1997 moquette rather than 2008 or a more recent example.

Also in Leicester, the Enviro 400s on routes 14/14a, originally at Bolton, had been refurbished and given a black moquette with some purple stripes. I then saw some First Leicester staff with uniforms mainly black with a little purple.

The 59 plates had the 2008 lilac moquette that faded badly. On refurbishment in 2017, they gained the original, better wearing version.

The refurbished e400 moquette has been used by Cymru and S Yorkshire as well as Midlands

 

[Volvodart]

I am on the First Bus Customer Panel and the most recent survey was to give preference to moquette patterns, so they must be thinking of a standard pattern for the future.

 

[Goldfish62]

I am on the First Bus Customer Panel and the most recent survey was to give preference to moquette patterns, so they must be thinking of a standard pattern for the future.

The "leather" wears quite badly and looks particularly drab especially when used in the barbie interior.

There are a number of moquettes in use across the group at the moment. First South West use a red and black scheme for new buses, and a purple and black scheme for refurbs. Potteries and Essex have also adopted the red and black version for recent refurbs. South Yorkshire seems to use a mainly black moquette with some purple highlights

I'm sure there are probably more out there.

The problem with the red and black moquette is that it seems to fade incredibly quickly, which is odd as other red based schemes in use on buses and trains certainly don't fade to the same degree.

 

[Nammer]

First Solent use a blue/black moquette for buses used on the 'Star' branded routes. This is also used on latest deliveries 63432/3. I believe the new vehicles used on the 'Eclipse' routes have a similar purple/black moquette?

 

[90sWereBetter]

Eastern Counties are still specifying e-leather on their recent deliveries and secondhand purchases. Interestingly, Essex seem to be doing both, the batch of ex-Arriva E400s bought for Hadleigh have been furnished in e-leather, while the ex-Tower Transit E200s for Chelmsford received a red based moquette.

 

[317 forever]

The 59 plates had the 2008 lilac moquette that faded badly. On refurbishment in 2017, they gained the original, better wearing version.

The refurbished e400 moquette has been used by Cymru and S Yorkshire as well as Midlands

Thank you for the explanation about the older moquette in those Eclipses.

I wonder why a moquette is being used for refurbishments but not new deliveries.

 

[Ken H]

Leather seats seem to be the norm in Yorkshire for premium services. Leather on the X84 First between Otley and Ilkley. Also on the Transdev 60 between Keighley and Shipley (and on to Leeds). Other buses were moquette. The leather seats are more of a bucket seat than the moquette ones.

 

[stevenedin]

I find it e-leather to be more hygienic and easier to clean. Also there’s not any chance that you could accidentally sit on a wet seat without realising. The only issue is that you seem to slide off these types of seats easily.

I think one standard seat covering type would be the best across the whole group but that’s just my opinion.

I also agree about the 2008 maquette it looks very faded after a while compared to the original one.

 

[Andyh82]

Moqette with some leather trim, like what Transdev, Trent Barton and Go North East do would be my preference - you still get the well established benefits of fabric, but with the alleged premium element of leather.

Leather looks awful when it’s aged and you tend to slide off the seats, bear in mind in FirstGroup some seats won’t be reupholstered for 10/15 years if at all.

Regarding the fact new and refurbishments aren’t currently aligned, I’m guessing new deliveries are decided by head office, and they still tow the E-leather line unless someone gives a strong opinion to do otherwise (and we know some MDs do this, whereas others are just on a corporate career ladder) whereas refurbishments are decided at local level?

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

Leather seats seem to be the norm in Yorkshire for premium services. Leather on the X84 First between Otley and Ilkley. Also on the Transdev 60 between Keighley and Shipley (and on to Leeds). Other buses were moquette. The leather seats are more of a bucket seat than the moquette ones.

The Aireline 60 B9TLs don't have leather seats.

Also all new Arriva and First vehicle have 'e-leather' seating.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thank you for the explanation about the older moquette in those Eclipses.

I wonder why a moquette is being used for refurbishments but not new deliveries.

First South West new deliveries since 2016 have used red/black moquette.

 

[JonathanH]

It is interesting to see this leather / moquette debate coming around again, ten years after First switched to leather (or whatever it actually is) for all deliveries.

I have always been intrigued about the 1979 switch made by the National Bus Company to Autumn Gold moquette, that wasn't taken up by all companies. Presumably someone decided that people would prefer moquette at that time and that it might attract more passengers.

Come the leather change from 2012 and some First companies changed loads of older buses over whereas others didn't. Now at the stage where a large part of the fleet has leather seating the discussion above appears to indicate it is being reviewed again. It is interesting that some of the early operators to go to leather seating have reverted to moquette while others seem committed to keeping vinyl / leather seating. Guess it comes to personal taste of those in charge.